CV Vaccine

Hi

Oh dear! Here we go again.
 
Yesterday on the Government briefing people were told that tier 4 restrictions were being brought in to stop the new variant of the virus from spreading out of the south east.
 
You would hope sensible people would heed the advice but what do I see on the news this morning -“mass exodus” - from London before the restrictions come into force. So before we know it this new variant will be everywhere.
 
What chance have we got of ever controlling this virus with attitudes like this?
 
Brod

I don't think you'll get your belated reunion that soon Al.

We all know the cretinous behaviour going to be 100 times worse at the New Year - then there will be yet another full lockdown after that, which will certainly be the final straw for the many jobs and small businesses that are only just clinging on.

The vaccines are our only realistic hope, and they are being administered far too slowly at the moment. Only 350,000 during the last week, which is nowhere near enough to make a difference before next summer. It seems that something like 10 million people need to be vaccinated to make a significant difference, and at two doses each that will take 56 weeks at the current pace!!! Even a three or four fold increase still leaves us with a dismal prospect for the next few months!

Let's hope the Oxford version will be approved very soon!!

listening to the news this morning , wall too wall experts and mr Hancock. Not one of them seemed to agree the date when this "new"??, variant came to light.
Any time between September and last Friday ( so we had to act with some urgency!!! )
Another grumble here, media sums again, headlines state " millions of people effected by yesterday's changes ".??
I see the amount more like "tens" of millions " or can I not add up?
All the millions, billions ££, percentages, graphs, seems to have affected the way the BBC and others,add up populations of communities.
I do feel for the people now , for what ever reason, caught up in the new Teir 4 . Being told to prepare for the festive break, keep your self isolated in the run up, keep your family bubble safe, reduce your contacts, basically do the right thing.      Then Wham!!  sorry forget all your planning " your little Christmas " is now for nothing.
Ps. This is the Grumpy Old Men's Club remember.
No offence intended or any intention of offending implied.

Hi  

I think you make some good points babian but:

babian wrote:listening to the news this morning , wall too wall experts and mr Hancock. Not one of them seemed to agree the date when this "new"??, variant came to light..

Reading between the lines there, I thinks it’s a mistake to assume that if experts disagree they are not experts.

Real experts will disagree when the evidence is incomplete just because they are experts and aware of the many different ways things could play out. They will have their own views on what is most on what is most likely but tend to come together as the evidence becomes clearer.

We have come to expect a definite answer and sometimes there isn't one.

As for Mr Hancock!      

babian wrote:Any time between September and last Friday ( so we had to act with some urgency!!! ).

Yes but we can only act on what we know and as far as we know this new strain seems to be limited to the South East so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to try and contain it. I don’t claim to be an expert, I do think it will spread eventually but if we can slow it until more people have been vaccinated that must be a good thing.

babian wrote:I do feel for the people now , for what ever reason, caught up in the new Teir 4 . Being told to prepare for the festive break, keep your self isolated in the run up, keep your family bubble safe, reduce your contacts, basically do the right thing.      Then Wham!!  sorry forget all your planning " your little Christmas " is now for nothing.

I totally agree but I think it was wrong for the Government to relax the rules at Christmas knowing that the virus will be more prevalent in the new year. In my view it's too higher price to pay for a few days relaxation (others will disagree).

Brod

According to Wales First Minister , the new strain is already in Wales and the reason for the full lockdown here. So I'm afraid it's not just London and South-East.

Hi

OK so we’re going off topic a bit but this is still reinvent.

groundhog wrote:Which pretty much demonstrates my point that this nation is now run by the media, it is no longer run for the benefit of the people but for the benefit of the party, the paper, the TV ratings, the social following, ad infinitum. Joe public in many cases believe it and act accordingly

Oh Hog how right you are.

I’ll try not to go into a rant by my overriding hate in the modern world is (most) journalists. They spout rubbish and pontificate on a subject about which they know nothing which then becomes “accepted” knowledge.

When I read an article about a subject that I know something about it’s almost always fundamentally wrong so when I read about something of which I have no knowledge that’s probably wrong as well.

It's not only undesirable but dangerous because sensible people make decisions based on flawed information.

As you say “rule by media”.

Brod

Hi  

Paulmold wrote:According to Wales First Minister , the new strain is already in Wales and the reason for the full lockdown here. So I'm afraid it's not just London and South-East.

 

I stress I'm no expert on viruses but trying to find a silver lining I was listening to a virologist  who said that viruses mutate all the time and when they do they tend to become less severe. So maybe with enough mutations Covid may become less dangerous, but then again.

Brod

brodco wrote:It's not only undesirable but dangerous because sensible people make decisions based on flawed information.  

Brod

Spot on Brod. That's the most frustrating part of the entire saga.

The Government's own data, aided by the Biased Broadcasting Corporation's daily reports is a classic example.

Number of positive cases each day! That tells us nothing unless we know how many tests were taken (rarely even mentioned on the BBC) and can factor in the most likely margin for error, plus at least a basic breakdown according to age group. The more you test, the more you find, but the raw data tells us very little of any use.

Number of deaths FOR ANY REASON within 28 days of a positive test. So if 500 perfectly fit and well people who have tested positive within 28 days are killed in an airliner crash, they will all be added to the number of Covid deaths for that day!!

A daft scenario maybe, but how many of the recorded deaths are due to random accidents, or illnesses completely unrelated to Covid? It must be quite a few, judging from the number of daily deaths recorded before the Plague struck!!

(And how many have died from Covid without ever having been tested?)

Quote from https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
"It was decided to adopt this measure in April in order to be sure not to underestimate the number of COVID-19 related deaths. It was always intended to review the approach as the pandemic progressed."

Number of hospital admissions each day. Firstly it's not made clear if these people were admitted because they had serious Covid symptoms, or if it is simply the total number of people admitted to hospital each day.

These numbers are very misleading, since at the moment (from the source quoted above) around 1900 people are being admitted to hospital each day, presumably all suffering from Covid, and over 500 of them die!!

That suggests the hospital mortality rate alone is more than 25%, which really would be frightening if it were true!!

As Brod said . . . . and the whole mortality issue is based on whether or not Covid appears on the death certificate, which is a whole nother can of worms!!

bikeralw wrote:They say that the NHS will be overrun when the covid 19 cases are added to the normal winter flu numbers. Well isn't flu also a virus, and if everyone sticks to the coronavirus rules then flu cases should be at an all time low.
Al.

Chris Whitty said in the update that flu was much lower than normal. He went on to say that the social distancing was keeping all types of respiratory illnesses low.

hi Bod, just catching up with this thread.
This copied from an old thread,

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 Re: Covid19 . . . I'm confused??

 by babian on Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:07 am

I'm no doctor......!
spoke in length last week to someone ( a friend) who has worked in the pharmaceutical industry all the way through this very troubling times.
First she said that as early as the beginning of January they were asked via a very obscure GOV. department email, " how much PPE did they hold in stock at that time. There was no feedback from the sender after the answer was given. Also her friend who worked as a dentist was asked the same.
Secondly she says the virus has already mutated into a less deadly flu like virus , as the viruses sole intension is not to kill its host as this would lead too its untimely demise. She remarked that it will soon become " just like all the other winter flu viruses ", also like all the others it will still take many more lives " that are on the edge".
One other remark she passed on was, no one in her industry has any idea what the political reaction or gain was to be had by all of the response we have all endured over this year.
Fingers crossed everyone.?!?!

I see the date posted above , end of August- "September " ??

I'm no expert also, but if that inside information was available then why bring it out last Friday? No idea myself. 
I also believe this conversation is all very relevant to this thread.
CV Vaccine, take up, availability, how effective  it is long term, new/old mutations, timeline etc.
Politics aside, it's also very late in the day for how business can react to such sudden changes in policy let alone communities.
As I said in August, fingers crossed everyone.
but governments should not use that policy.

Ok so if I may go back to the original topic.
No doubt all the people who say they are not going to agree to the vaccine are quite likely those lovely people maskless who have their own theory.

So you dont want the jab you should be prepared to sign a waiver registered with the NHS that if  you contact COVID no treatment need be given and you will not occupy a NHS bed 

Finally on a personal front I would to thank the police who have the thankless job of trying to enforce the current rules and again those breaking the rules should be told they automatically are disqualified from receiving NHS treatment for COVID.

Can anybody tell me why London and the south east was not tier 3 from the start because if you look at the figures it was a total no brainer.

Just saw this on the BBC news tonight:

Coronavirus cases in the UK have risen by 35,928 - nearly double the number recorded last Sunday, figures show.
Public Health England medical director Yvonne Doyle said the "sharp" rise in cases was of "serious concern".
It comes as Health Secretary Matt Hancock warned that a new variant of the virus was "getting out of control".
Christmas plans have been scrapped or restricted for millions across the UK amid warnings the variant is up to 70% more transmissible than previous types.
The number of new UK infections on Sunday is an all-time high for recorded cases and nearly double the 18,447 cases reported a week ago.

groundhog wrote:Most of Europe seems to have banned all UK flights and trains too.

Some for 24/48 hours. Can't see it disappearing that quick !.

And Dover has been closed for 48 hours. Is Brexit getting in on the act? Perhaps extenuating circumstances to extend the talks?

Mike

Mike187 wrote:And Dover has been closed for 48 hours. Is Brexit getting in on the act? Perhaps extenuating circumstances to extend the talks?

Mike

I said at the start we had nothing to gain and everything to loose from leaving the EU, 

Stupid or what???????
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Richard

groundhog wrote:Good news is the vaccine is exempt from any restrictions so will still be flowing.

Canada, Turkey, Saudi plus a host of others considering their position with regard to UK travel. Had a DHL parcel sent from Vancouver yesterday, normally all parcels come to me via the US to EMA. This one is due to arrive here Wednesday, it is currently in Paris......hmmm

I have been waiting for a parcel, which they say is in their local depot since Dec 12th! were ever  that is, local to whom?

No access to a human, just email and chat to a computer online.

Paypal next to complain and ask for a refund.

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Richard