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Many issues with new Broadway EL

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Post by Caraman Mon Feb 19, 2024 11:47 am

It was a long battle to get it done.  Snows outside Southampton also called Hamble Motors did it in the end.
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Post by Suppersready Mon Feb 19, 2024 2:35 pm

Caraman wrote:It was a long battle to get it done.  Snows outside Southampton also called Hamble Motors did it in the end.

Having done yours maybe I won’t have the same battle … it’s a fair way from me so i would have to work it in with a few days touring the area.

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Post by Caraman Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:30 pm

Suppersready wrote:

Having done yours maybe I won’t have the same battle … it’s a fair way from me so i would have to work it in with a few days touring the area.
The battle I had was not with Hamble Motors or the other 2 Peugeot dealers I went to, it was with Peugeot itself.  Their position was it is up to the converter to ask Peugeot to change the recommended pressures and therefore the TPMS setting as part of the motorhome's stage 2/3 type approval process, as Bailey did or still do for their conversions.  Unfortunately, the regulations do not require converters to approve/verify the tyre pressures and TPMS settings and as a result, many like A-S don't.  In the end I got Peugeot to agree that if the tyre manufacturer recommended the change, they would allow.  So I had to get a statement from Continental Tyres that the front TPMS setting should be reduced from 5.0 bar to 3.0 bar.  This was all back in 2020 so things may have changed since then.  I am aware from the Forum that other dealers have changed TPMS settings.
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Post by Suppersready Mon Feb 19, 2024 9:24 pm

Caraman wrote:
The battle I had was not with Hamble Motors or the other 2 Peugeot dealers I went to, it was with Peugeot itself.  Their position was it is up to the converter to ask Peugeot to change the recommended pressures and therefore the TPMS setting as part of the motorhome's stage 2/3 type approval process, as Bailey did or still do for their conversions.  Unfortunately, the regulations do not require converters to approve/verify the tyre pressures and TPMS settings and as a result, many like A-S don't.  In the end I got Peugeot to agree that if the tyre manufacturer recommended the change, they would allow.  So I had to get a statement from Continental Tyres that the front TPMS setting should be reduced from 5.0 bar to 3.0 bar.  This was all back in 2020 so things may have changed since then.  I am aware from the Forum that other dealers have changed TPMS settings.

Thank you for this additonal information, much appreciated. I will make some initial inquiries …

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Post by Lins02 Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:27 pm

Just in case anyone else has the problem with the vehicle battery low warning when on EHU, the fix seems relatively simple!

I have the Fiat version and after doing some digging and talking to the dealer (Go European near Cannock) it seems it was the wrong size fuse in the EM40 unit as indicated by a KB article on the Sargent website, unfortunately I can't link to it as I'm a new member but its the article related to the EM40 Fiat interface unit.  It specifically states that for Auto-sleeper vehicles a 25A fuse is needed for the vehicle battery and mine only had a 20A.

I've replaced the vehicle battery fuse with a 25A one and the problem appears to have gone away.  Keeping everything crossed that its now resolved!
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Post by Tinwheeler Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:34 pm

I don t know of anything preventing you posting a link. Why not try again?
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Post by gassygassy Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:38 pm

I've replaced the vehicle battery fuse with a 25A one and the problem appears to have gone away.  Keeping everything crossed that its now resolved!


Where is the 20A vehicle battery fuse please?

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Post by Paulmold Tue Feb 20, 2024 1:44 pm

The 20amp fuse problem is well known. A technical notice was sent to dealers back in 2021 by AS at the time the problem was diagnosed telling them to replace with a 25amp. Unfortunately service technicians leave companies and this information may not have been passed on to other technicians.  Dealers should be aware . I've even heard that the 25amp change hasn't been enough and 30amp have been suggested by Sargent in some cases. Anyone having such problems should check what fuse is fitted and if necessary have a talk with their dealer who in turn should talk to Sargent to check this out.

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Post by PLOUGHLIN Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:01 pm

Fiat/peugeot based [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Merc based [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Post by gassygassy Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:12 pm

Ah, thanks. it'll be the one labelled Vehicle in the top right corner of the EM45. I'll do that. I guess that it would only be carrying 20A or more if the engine battery was flat (as opposed to a box shaped battery) and put on mains charging. One assumes that the on board charger is capable of dishing out 30A - so it must be a pretty good one.

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Post by Lins02 Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:30 pm

gassygassy wrote:I've replaced the vehicle battery fuse with a 25A one and the problem appears to have gone away.  Keeping everything crossed that its now resolved!


Where is the 20A vehicle battery fuse please?
In my Broadway EL the EM40 is under the left hand seat as you are looking at the rear lounge.
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Post by PLOUGHLIN Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:47 pm

gassygassy wrote:Ah, thanks. it'll be the one labelled Vehicle in the top right corner of the EM45. I'll do that. I guess that it would only be carrying 20A or more if the engine battery was flat (as opposed to a box shaped battery) and put on mains charging. One assumes that the on board charger is capable of dishing out 30A - so it must be a pretty good one.

20A max for PX300 and for built in charger in EC500 PSU.

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Post by gassygassy Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:15 pm

I've got the EC700 - but it would be the battery charger that takes the current wouldn't it? Not the EC700? Or is the charger built in to the EC700?
My 20A fuse hasn't blown, and I have had the mh plugged into 230v while I am not using it for a few weeks.

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Post by PLOUGHLIN Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:38 pm

I believe the EC700 has the separate PX300 charger not built in the PSU.

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Post by Caraman Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:39 am

PLOUGHLIN wrote:I believe the EC700 has the separate PX300 charger not built in the PSU.
Agreed.  Although its 25A fuse is mounted with the rest of the EC700's fuses (white No 1) and its green on/off switch is on top of the EC700, the PX300 can operate independently of the EC700.  If the EC700 is shutdown, the PX300 will still charge the LB through the LB's 20A in-line fuse just as the integrated Sargent solar regulator will still charge the VB through the VB 20A fuse on the EM40/45.  The brown 7.5A No 2 fuse on the EC700 (permanent 12V) is also active whether the EC700 is shutdown or not.
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Post by breakaleg Wed Feb 21, 2024 9:46 am

Don't ask me which but, I had to change three 20amp fuses on my Nuevo (EC700) as once you upgrade one the pressure is on the others.
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Post by gassygassy Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:02 am

That sounds odd Pete. Sounds as if something is a bit wrong there if you had to change a fuse three times. Unless you have a batch of 'weak' fuses.
Anyway apart from being puzzled as to why Sargent should route charging of a battery through the EC700 instead of just wiring a mains supply to the charger, I am quite happy with my 20A fuse which hasn't blown.
In one R&D lab I worked at, I did some research on fuses, gradually increasing the current through them until they blew. The final melting point of the fuse was always at a considerably higher current than they were rated at. However in practice, you and I will 'never' (probably never) encounter a situation where 25A is flowing through a 20A fuse. A 20A fuse will be put in place by a designer where the normal current would be say 10A, and only when a fault condition occurs would it exceed 25A. 999 times out of 1000 when we encounter a blown fuse it will have ruptured due to a dead short circuit somewhere rather than just being overloaded.
Having said that it sounds as if the fuse in my MB Sprinter has been located in an environment where it can overheat. Then if the 20A fuse is carrying 20A, in a hot environment the plastic holder could melt, the fuse drop away from its metal contacts, start sparking because of the high current and start a fire. The designer should have used a heat-proof fuse holder.
I'll shut up and go and sit by a log fire. It's cold and raining outside . . . . . smiley_yawns

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Post by breakaleg Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:13 am

Hi, it was three separate fuses, apparently,of when you start the engine with a smart alternator fitted and the VB is quite well charged the spike can be quite high and Pop the fuse
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Post by Caraman Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:01 am

gassygassy wrote:...
Anyway apart from being puzzled as to why Sargent should route charging of a battery through the EC700 instead of just wiring a mains supply to the charger, I am quite happy with my 20A fuse which hasn't blown.
...
It may just be words but I would say the mains supply to the PX300 isn't routed through the EC700.  It's routed through a green 240V charger switch which just happens to be on the top of the EC700.  Similarly, if the EC700 is shutdown, the PX300's 12V output is also not routed through the EC700.  It goes direct to the LB via the No 1 fuse which just happens to be on top of the EC700.  The PX300's 12v output is only routed through the EC700 when the EC700 is not shutdown.  The output can then be switched to either battery for charging, manually or smart, and to power the habitation electrics, less the 12V permanent supply which just happens to go through the No 2 fuse on top of the EC700.
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Post by gassygassy Wed Feb 21, 2024 5:04 pm

Thanks for the explanations. So you are talking about starting the engine while on EHU. Hopefully you would remember to disconnect the EHU before driving off, but I can see that there is the possibility that the engine might be started with EHU connected. It's good that this has been considered as a possible scenario.
If that is the case, the "intelligent"  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] alternator would be looking at a fully charged EB and a fully charged LB. So it would not be generating any current at all, as it would be in "batteries are fully charged so I don't need to generate anything" mode. So where is the 30A coming from, which is between the 230v and the HB, if the HB is fully charged?

  . . . . . . . or am I barking up a totally wrong tree, or just barking?

I wish I had a proper circuit diagram of the Hab electrics. The one supplied with the MH is  a waste of paper and ink so far as I can tell. If it was headed "EC700" that would be even worse, it would deceive anyone thining it was useful information. But as the wiring diagram is headed 'EC500' at least you know from the start that they are incompetent so there's no need to rely on anything else in the book. Then you start to while away the winter hours trying to figure out which bits actually apply to the vehicle you have paid a lot of money for.

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Post by Caraman Thu Feb 22, 2024 7:59 am

gassygassy wrote:... So you are talking about starting the engine while on EHU. Hopefully you would remember to disconnect the EHU before driving off, but I can see that there is the possibility that the engine might be started with EHU connected. It's good that this has been considered as a possible scenario.
...
I wasn't talking about starting the engine while on an EHU.  I did it once (whilst the PX300 was switched on) to read the LPG gauge but never again.  No fuses blew but alarms and error messages flashed everywhere.
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