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Wheres my water pump?

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Wheres my water pump? Empty Wheres my water pump?

Post by SteveplusChris on Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:35 pm

I have a mid 2011 Neuvo Lancashire (just out of warranty!!so_sad ) The on board water pump has stopped. The fault started with ever decreasing pressure and a very strained sound, then nothing. The pressure switch had been very fussy presumably due to the lack of pressure from the pump. My book of words say the pump is on the wardrobe floor behind the fire, but it isn't! The pressure switch is in there but the wiring goes out through the floor and off in the direction of the tank. I have read somewhere that AS was using a different pump in the tank itself and from the location of the noises I think that applies to mine. Look under the van at the tank and there is a large cap fitted that I assume unscrews? Has anyone been in the tank, will I find a pump and more importantly how easy is it to remove and replace said pump? I've emailed AS but as usual no responce.
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Wheres my water pump? Empty Looking for that failed pump

Post by jimthefish on Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:56 am

Hi Steve & Chris, I doubt that the pump is inside the fresh water tank. It would be very unhygienic, constantly in water and the lowest point of the system so prone to freezing however a submersible pump would be cheaper option so might appeal to the manufacturer at the detriment of the owner. I have a 2005 Nuevo which has an  approximately  7" diameter screwed inspection cap on the bottom of the tank I take off occasionally to wash out the bottom of the tank because my van lives on a slight downhill slope so using the drain tap still leaves a little water in. (in the depth of winter I could hear the lump of ice banging around in the empty tank) is that what your are looking at. I have heard that some manufacturer now put the sure flow pump in a metal box under the chassis near to the tank to cut down on internal noise, but the chances are the pump is inside to protect it from the variances of the weather. Mine is under the wardrobe and behind the van heater, I tracked it down by following the pipe from the drain tap which was under the drivers side passenger seat. I makes sense to put it there because its the shortest run to the van's internal taps and allows the draining of the pump for winter storage.
Good luck and keep us posted.
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Wheres my water pump? Empty Re: Wheres my water pump?

Post by burlingtonboaby on Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:24 am

SteveplusChris wrote:I have a mid 2011 Neuvo Lancashire (just out of warranty!!so_sad ) The on board water pump has stopped. The fault started with ever decreasing pressure and a very strained sound, then nothing. The pressure switch had been very fussy presumably due to the lack of pressure from the pump. My book of words say the pump is on the wardrobe floor behind the fire, but it isn't! The pressure switch is in there but the wiring goes out through the floor and off in the direction of the tank. I have read somewhere that AS was using a different pump in the tank itself and from the location of the noises I think that applies to mine. Look under the van at the tank and there is a large cap fitted that I assume unscrews? Has anyone been in the tank, will I find a pump and more importantly how easy is it to remove and replace said pump? I've emailed AS but as usual no responce.
Hi, give Mark a call at A/S Willersey 01386 853511, he should be able to help you locate your water pump, he may ask you for your van build number, very helpfull bunch at Willersey.
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Wheres my water pump? Empty Dreaded water pump

Post by Sparky7 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:39 pm

Yes, the pump really is in the tank.   I couldn't believe it either.   Along with the pressure switch, it was one of the many things that needed replacing on my 2012 Nuevo II, involving a couple of visits to Marquis while they tried to fix the two components, and finally having to replace both.scratch head
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Wheres my water pump? Empty Re: Wheres my water pump?

Post by Paulmold on Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:21 pm

It's no surprise to me that a pump should be in the tank. Previous to our motorhome we had a Swift caravan of 1994 vintage with on-board tank and that had the pump in the tank although I have to say it was easy to get at as it had a large screw cap on the tank accessible from inside a bench seat .
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Wheres my water pump? Empty Re: Wheres my water pump?

Post by jimthefish on Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:35 pm

Well in the word of Victor Meldrew "I don't believe it" can you imagine that lump of ice I get in my fresh water tank in the winter sliding around the tank. Then there is the additional costs involved in getting the pump out for repair, I had to have the level indicators replace under warranty and all I remember is the mechanics Anglo-Saxon language trying to put the tank back. Bet you have to pay extra if you want a tank heater to stop the water freezing. So the best advice is to make sure your tank is completely empty in the winter. Let hope its repairable through that large screwed cap in the bottom of the tank and ask them how do you ensure the water in the pump is out so it doesn't freeze and crack the pump casing in the winter?
Good luck with the repair and hope the cost is minimal.

Just had a look at the types of submersible pumps used in motorhomes, worth noting if its the basic £11 cylindrical type used in caravan external aqua rolls they have a 1 year warranty. If its the more robust submersible at £34 they come with a 2 year warranty so you might be within the warranty.
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Wheres my water pump? Empty Re: Wheres my water pump?

Post by SteveplusChris on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:32 pm

SteveplusChris wrote:I have a mid 2011 Neuvo Lancashire (just out of warranty!!so_sad ) The on board water pump has stopped. The fault started with ever decreasing pressure and a very strained sound, then nothing. The pressure switch had been very fussy presumably due to the lack of pressure from the pump. My book of words say the pump is on the wardrobe floor behind the fire, but it isn't! The pressure switch is in there but the wiring goes out through the floor and off in the direction of the tank. I have read somewhere that AS was using a different pump in the tank itself and from the location of the noises I think that applies to mine. Look under the van at the tank and there is a large cap fitted that I assume unscrews? Has anyone been in the tank, will I find a pump and more importantly how easy is it to remove and replace said pump? I've emailed AS but as usual no responce.
Right, now I have had time to investigate, by trying out the top step on my quatro levellers and clambering underneath the van, I managed after a bit of grunt and grapple to remove the cap off the tank and Lo there is a submersible pump hanging meekly on a bit of pipe. The hole in the tank is too small to get my arm in so I am going to have fiddle the pipe off the pump, cut the electric supply off the broken pump to attach to the new wire so I can pull it through and then attempt to attach the new pump to the pipe. If this fails the tank has to come out. I was quoted £200 plus to replace a £28 hi flow Whale pump that I will not pay so DIY it is. They say it is relatively easy to do myself. What this space for a report of how to do!!!!
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Wheres my water pump? Empty Re: Wheres my water pump?

Post by jimthefish on Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:31 pm

Good luck Steve, just a thought are Chris's hands smaller? Joking aside there is always the option to put a metal box under the van and put a standard pump in that would make the wiring and pipe connections easier as they would be outside the tank and easier to repair the next time. Then you can let those lumps of ice in the winter bang around to their hearts content and not do any damage.
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Wheres my water pump? Empty Re: Wheres my water pump?

Post by Vindiboy on Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:15 pm

Just taken delivery of my Burford and have not found the water pump either. Is it lurking in the tank I ask myself.
 Not being one of lifes slim jims I don't relish the thought of dragging my bulk about a muddy field looking for it. Not that I'm expecting it to go wrong just yet, got to give it a chance I suppose but having had a couple new 'vans in the past nothing will suprise me. Also new to Owners forum so hi to all you folk.
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Wheres my water pump? Empty What a load of junk!!!

Post by SteveplusChris on Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:15 pm

SteveplusChris wrote:I have a mid 2011 Neuvo Lancashire (just out of warranty!!so_sad ) The on board water pump has stopped. The fault started with ever decreasing pressure and a very strained sound, then nothing. The pressure switch had been very fussy presumably due to the lack of pressure from the pump. My book of words say the pump is on the wardrobe floor behind the fire, but it isn't! The pressure switch is in there but the wiring goes out through the floor and off in the direction of the tank. I have read somewhere that AS was using a different pump in the tank itself and from the location of the noises I think that applies to mine. Look under the van at the tank and there is a large cap fitted that I assume unscrews? Has anyone been in the tank, will I find a pump and more importantly how easy is it to remove and replace said pump? I've emailed AS but as usual no responce.
 OK I said I would update on this. I am appalled that something costing £50k odd would be bodged in such a way. The on board tank has a submersible pump in it that has died. As others have commented it is easy prey to ice and running dry so should never have been installed in there. It is impossible to unscrew the jubilee clip that holds the hose to the pump so have to cut it off thus shortening the pipe and making it even less accessible from the silly little access hole in the tank. It is equally impossible to pull through the power lead connected to the pump. The pipe connection to the pump is a bodge. The 12ml tube has been heated and forced on to the roughly 14ml pipe connection and then a cheap and nasty jubilee clip added. Appaling!!
Because of the impossible access I thought I would take out the tank that looked on the face of it to be easy. Big mistake. The cradles are easy to remove and the tank slops about nicely but would it come out? would it hell. The handbrake cable gets in the way, the unions on the tank for water in and out get in the way, hopeless!! I know I was working on my back under the van, but did use my quadro levellers to give me space but to no avail. I have now taken more advice and ordered a Surflow in board pump that will be a doddle to instal in the base of the wardrobe. The Surflow pump has its own pressure switch so diss the one that is there already, connect the two pipes to the new pump, move the wiring from tank to new pump and hopefully job done with a pump with a better flow rate, that will not freeze, can run dry and is protected from overload etc etc No wonder British workmanship has such a bad name. Beginning to regret buying Auto Sleepers now, and to those that that defend AS, they had to have designed and installed this, not ano ther manufacturer. Be interesting to see what other unworkable * Inappropriate Word * ideas I discover in the future???   scratch head
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Wheres my water pump? Empty Job Done

Post by SteveplusChris on Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:24 pm

SteveplusChris wrote:
SteveplusChris wrote:I have a mid 2011 Neuvo Lancashire (just out of warranty!!so_sad ) The on board water pump has stopped. The fault started with ever decreasing pressure and a very strained sound, then nothing. The pressure switch had been very fussy presumably due to the lack of pressure from the pump. My book of words say the pump is on the wardrobe floor behind the fire, but it isn't! The pressure switch is in there but the wiring goes out through the floor and off in the direction of the tank. I have read somewhere that AS was using a different pump in the tank itself and from the location of the noises I think that applies to mine. Look under the van at the tank and there is a large cap fitted that I assume unscrews? Has anyone been in the tank, will I find a pump and more importantly how easy is it to remove and replace said pump? I've emailed AS but as usual no responce.
 OK I said I would update on this. I am appalled that something costing £50k odd would be bodged in such a way. The on board tank has a submersible pump in it that has died. As others have commented it is easy prey to ice and running dry so should never have been installed in there. It is impossible to unscrew the jubilee clip that holds the hose to the pump so have to cut it off thus shortening the pipe and making it even less accessible from the silly little access hole in the tank. It is equally impossible to pull through the power lead connected to the pump. The pipe connection to the pump is a bodge. The 12ml tube has been heated and forced on to the roughly 14ml pipe connection and then a cheap and nasty jubilee clip added. Appaling!!
Because of the impossible access I thought I would take out the tank that looked on the face of it to be easy. Big mistake. The cradles are easy to remove and the tank slops about nicely but would it come out? would it hell. The handbrake cable gets in the way, the unions on the tank for water in and out get in the way, hopeless!! I know I was working on my back under the van, but did use my quadro levellers to give me space but to no avail. I have now taken more advice and ordered a Surflow in board pump that will be a doddle to instal in the base of the wardrobe. The Surflow pump has its own pressure switch so diss the one that is there already, connect the two pipes to the new pump, move the wiring from tank to new pump and hopefully job done with a pump with a better flow rate, that will not freeze, can run dry and is protected from overload etc etc No wonder British workmanship has such a bad name. Beginning to regret buying Auto Sleepers now, and to those that that defend AS, they had to have designed and installed this, not ano ther manufacturer. Be interesting to see what other unworkable * Inappropriate Word * ideas I discover in the future???   scratch head
Surflow Pump installed on back wall of wardrobe to installation instructions using soft pipe connections to keep noise down. No noisier than the in tank abomination with the wardrobe floor, drawer re-installed and door shut. Double the flow rate and much much easier to maintain in the future. Incidently I recall seeing posts asking how to remove the drawer in the wardrobe. Just open the drawer and remove the 3 screws each side in the guide rail and drawer lifts out, simples! Gives you lots of room to work on stuff like installing proper pumps etc!!! Happy to advise if anyone else wants to do the same job.allthumbz
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Wheres my water pump? Empty Re: Wheres my water pump?

Post by inspiredron on Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:26 pm

If you pull, lift and wiggle it the drawer does come out but the fact that the front is angled certainly doesn't make it easy!

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Post by SteveplusChris on Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:21 pm

inspiredron wrote:If you pull, lift and wiggle it the drawer does come out but the fact that the front is angled certainly doesn't make it easy!
I wiggled and jiggled and pushed and pulled, then unscrewed the 6 little screws and out it came!! But whatever turns anyone on!!!!!allthumbz
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Post by mikethebike on Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:09 pm

Hi, reading this disaster story,you wonder if any one at the factory uses a Motorhome.confused3 
Just convinces me to stay with the old and trusted Models of yesteryear.wave 

best regards

Mike
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Wheres my water pump? Empty water pump

Post by murph on Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:26 pm

Hi All,
  On our 2005 Lancashire the sureflow pump is mounted under the Right hand bench between the front of the wardrobe and the wheel arch, this may be a suitable site for yours.

  Brian
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Post by moggyminor1966 on Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:52 pm

Hi stevepluschris we have a 2011 Nuevo II EK so assume the pump will be in the tank also. If ours goes then I would like to replace it as you have done in the wardrobe. Would it be possible to provide a step by step guide how you did it with photos if possible. Which Shurflow pump did you use?
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Post by SteveplusChris on Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:42 pm

moggyminor1966 wrote:Hi stevepluschris we have a 2011 Nuevo II EK so assume the pump will be in the tank also. If ours goes then I would like to replace it as you have done in the wardrobe. Would it be possible to provide a step by step guide how you did it with photos if possible. Which Shurflow pump did you use?
Hi, This involves a bit of huffing and puffing and swearing if you are so inclined but an awful lot easier than trying to replace a submersible pump in the tank, especially if you are 60 and well padded like me!!! Make absolutely sure you haven't got a pump in the wardrobe, 2011 was apparently the year of change from one to other. Drain the water tank and water heater.
 Unscrew the big cap on the bottom of the tank. Get hold of and cut the pump and wiring off the pump (12 volt off of course!!) leaving the semi rigid plastic 12ml pipe more or less resting on the bottom of the tank. On the filler side of the tank you will see a white flex dissapearing up on to the top of the tank. Dissconnect this from the taped up connecters attached to two seperate but tape covered wires heading off towards the back of the van. Back in the tank pull out the white flex that was attached to the pump. Re-fit the big lid, you have finished in the there. Carefully thread back the two wires that you dissconnected from the white flex through LOADS of cable clips. If you push hard enough near each clip the wires you want will bulge out from the others so you know which ones to pull.Once under the wardrobe shove the wires back through the hole in the floor (there is tons of other stuff going in and out of the same hole). Remove the drawer under the wardrobe (dont bother fighting with it) just unscrew the 3 screws each side from the runners and the drawer drops out! Open wardrobe door and lift out inspection cover, Remove pressure switch and join the two wires together. I shortened mine first for tidyness. Leave the two pipes alone for a mo. Find and pull up the two wires from under the van (they have come through the hole that you can't see because it is now under the heater fan unit)
I mounted a Surflow RV pump (£55 ish via Amazon plus P&P) on the wall above the water heater (very accessible for maintenance). The installation instructions with the pump are all you need. You need to connect two softer hoses from pump to the original semi rigid 12ml stuff in whatever way you chose. I just experimented with pipe runs until I was happy nothing would kink. The 15ml bore soft hose I used slid very tightly over the semi rigid stuff after a bit of lubrication and persausion. I got about 4 inches of pipe one inside the other. I clamped up with 2 jubilee clips per hose and a couple of plastic ties just to make sure. You need to ensure you connect input and output correctly which is easy. Simply follow the the two pipes down to the wardrobe floor. One goes straight out to the tank (this is the supply/input) and the other goes to a "T" push fit on the floor, (this is the flow/output). Connect the two wires that used to go to the tank to the new pump, on mine the blue/green was poss and orange/white was neg but dont rely on that given the other bodges AS will have made, I would check polarity with a meter first. Fill your water tank. Turn on power and pump and hopefully your Surflow will burst into life. Open up your taps and wait. Water will flow from cold in seconds but will take a while to fill the water heater. Self priming, double the former water output? and no noiser than the old pump once everything is back in the wardrobe lid on and dawer re-fitted. Job done!! Took me around 1.5 hours. Good luck!
For your interest I have also added another blown air output at the front end of the van seat and a trailing electric socket inside the seat with the exterior access door for running mains stuff outside and also another in the drivers side seat emerging behind the drivers seat for plugging in phones / computers etc near the front end.  
allthumbz
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Post by moggyminor1966 on Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:37 pm

Hi stevepluschris 
Thanks very much for your excellent instructions. As there seems to be various different models of Shurflow pumps could you let me know which model number you used?
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Post by SteveplusChris on Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:05 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
 
Hi. Above is the link to ebay pump I purchased.
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Post by Pete Taylor on Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:44 am

Chris,
I wonder if anyone from Auto Sleeper ever reads this forum? so_sad 
Some while back I asked them where my water-pump was located and, having looked in the three places they suggested,  tried this forum. The two forum suggestions proved to be equally fruitless; in the end I left it switched on andby trial and error, found it in a sixth location! As I was only looking to clean the filter- every six months according to the "manual" and did not fancy dismantling the back end of my van, I left it.
Thanks for taking the time to post an engineers report on your progress.

Cheers,
Pete.

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Post by inspiredron on Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:31 pm

Excellent instructions, Steve.
I have a 2012 and that has the submersible pump as well. My pressure switch is in the bed locker forward of the gas locker and I will also have wiring into the tank for the float switch that is part of the Whale filler system. My leisure battery fills most of the space between gas locker and gangway edge of the bed locker so I doubt that I have space for the normal Truma air hose for an extra outlet. I like your idea of the trailing socket in the nearside bed locker.
Thanks

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Post by moggyminor1966 on Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:49 pm

Hi stevepluschris
What type of 15mm soft bore hose did you use? A link would be useful. Also did you mount the pump directly onto the outside wall or onto a piece of wood fixed to the wall? Just wondered how thick the outside wall is and what length screws can be safely used.
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Post by SteveplusChris on Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:04 pm

I used a bit of Aqualine that I had from an old filling system on a caravan. Any soft water safe hose will do, it is to stop harmonic vibration from the pump through the rigid plastic pipe. I mounted straight on to the wall. 1.1/4 8s at least half of which is encased in the rubber mount. All seems very solid at the moment. If anything does move I still have the option to install a mounting board, but remember the pump is behind the back of the drawer so you cant come too far out off the wall.
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Post by moggyminor1966 on Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:29 am

Thanks for that info stevepluschris. Glad you mentioned allowing room for the drawer to close! smile!
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