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Oil and filter change between services

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Oil and filter change between services Empty Oil and filter change between services

Post by Ready to go Tue Feb 27, 2024 8:20 pm

Hi
I've got a three year old Broadway on a Peugeot Boxer base.  The previous owner changed the oil and filter after a year and it was also done at the first service which was at the two year anniversary.  I am wondering if I should get the oil and filter changed now or just to wait until the next planned service in 12 months.  The vehicle has covered 8,000 miles overall and 4,000 in the last year.
I know we have inflation but the cost of an oil and filter change seems to be more than £200 even from an independent and £260 from a Peugeot dealer.  I know that is a relatively small cost compared to the cost of the vehicle but I would appreciate any views.
Is this a wise investment or am I being over cautious?
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Post by Paulmold Tue Feb 27, 2024 8:37 pm

My independent mechanic tells me no need for annual change if using longlife oil which he does, he tells me I'd be wasting my money. I've used him for over 20 years and trust him totally.

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Post by IanH Tue Feb 27, 2024 8:55 pm

Mine is an older engine, but same applies to the car, 12 yrs old too.
Every MOT I have a service which is oil and filter change, air filter change, fuel filter change and, in the case of the car, pollen filter too.

I know this is overkill, but neither does more than 5000 miles per year, so both sit for quite long periods, the MH especially so I accept the cost and have the knowledge that the most vital part of the engine, the oil, is as good as it can be.

I know I could extend this to, say, every 3 or 4 years, but just like the peace of mind.

Each vehicle bill is remarkably similar, the MOT as well as all above is circa £330
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Post by Caraman Tue Feb 27, 2024 9:39 pm

I stick to the servicing schedule.
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Post by glyne lock Wed Feb 28, 2024 12:33 am

Ready to go wrote:Hi
I've got a three year old Broadway on a Peugeot Boxer base.  The previous owner changed the oil and filter after a year and it was also done at the first service which was at the two year anniversary.  I am wondering if I should get the oil and filter changed now or just to wait until the next planned service in 12 months.  The vehicle has covered 8,000 miles overall and 4,000 in the last year.
I know we have inflation but the cost of an oil and filter change seems to be more than £200 even from an independent and £260 from a Peugeot dealer.  I know that is a relatively small cost compared to the cost of the vehicle but I would appreciate any views.
Is this a wise investment or am I being over cautious?
you need to see the paper work for last service and what oil got used. if it was long life 2 years for oil change .but you need to be sure long life was used
 people can say what they do what they think but is no help to you just a good Jack and Jill story
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Post by Caraman Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:47 am

The Peugeot Warranty & Maintenance Record states "Only lubricants that meet a PSA Peugeot Citroen standard should be used for servicing your vehicle and topping up.  The PSA Peugeot Citroen standard to use is mentioned on your servicing summary sheet."  My service schedule specifies the engine oil as 00W30 B71 2312 (C1C2) / EM:00W30 B71 2312.  I assume this is a long life oil suitable for the biennial oil change recommended by Peugeot for normal conditions of use.

My car has an annual oil change but its mileage is much higher and its required to do many stop start short journeys in urban environments which my Boxer doesn't do.  If it did, it could be categorised as arduous conditions and merit an annual oil change.
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Post by v8oholic Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:35 am

Changing the oil and filter more frequently than the minimum can't do any harm, except for the cost of course. Mine is coming up for 3 years old and is about to have the oil and filter changed for the third time (year 1 was optional oil and filter, year 2 was the scheduled service) at the main dealer. It also gives the dealer the opportunity to spot anything which needs attending to under warranty, as the warranty will be ending soon. Last year they found and replaced a leaking injector underneath. And it will need its first MOT of course.

My usage pattern is probably different to most in that for 8 months of the year there is no use, but in the other 4 months I cover 10,000 miles. Over many mountain passes (stopped counting at 50). And by the one year interval, the oil level indicator has dropped from 5 to 3. Although 1 is the minimum level required to safely run the engine, I would want to be adding oil at 3. But getting the oil and filter changed also solves the problem.

This hasn't really answered the question, but I don't think there really is one answer. It's a personal preference. Everyone has different usage, level of mechanical sympathy and reluctance to spend money. But this is what I do.
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Post by Caraman Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:14 am

v8oholic wrote:Changing the oil and filter more frequently than the minimum can't do any harm, except for the cost of course. Mine is coming up for 3 years old and is about to have the oil and filter changed for the third time (year 1 was optional oil and filter, year 2 was the scheduled service) at the main dealer. It also gives the dealer the opportunity to spot anything which needs attending to under warranty, as the warranty will be ending soon. Last year they found and replaced a leaking injector underneath. And it will need its first MOT of course.

My usage pattern is probably different to most in that for 8 months of the year there is no use, but in the other 4 months I cover 10,000 miles. Over many mountain passes (stopped counting at 50). And by the one year interval, the oil level indicator has dropped from 5 to 3. Although 1 is the minimum level required to safely run the engine, I would want to be adding oil at 3. But getting the oil and filter changed also solves the problem.

This hasn't really answered the question, but I don't think there really is one answer. It's a personal preference. Everyone has different usage, level of mechanical sympathy and reluctance to spend money. But this is what I do.
I agree.  Judgement based on usage is key.  I reckon my usage is as un-arduous as it can be.  Just checked my servicing record.  My first biennial oil change was after 5,238 miles and my second after 5,800 miles.  I doubt my next due in 2025 will be much more than 6k miles.  When I start the engine I immediately embark on a long non-urban journey (100 miles/2 hours +) which I do on average every month.  When we break a journey, it's never long enough for the engine to cool down.  I don't let the engine idle especially when its cold.  When we arrive on pitch we generally stay for about 4 nights and don't use the van as a runabout.  If we need water I bring it to the van rather than take the van to the water.  The most our van weighs is about 3,300 kg and I don't thrash it.  Average dual-carriageway speed 60 mph and the on-board computer tells me I'm averaging 33.9 MPG.
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Post by babian Wed Feb 28, 2024 12:06 pm

This all sounds like I'm reading a "Ducati" forum.
Those that know, know what I mean.
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Post by Peatlander 2 Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:18 pm

Every year regardless, pre mot time. Sometimes more if the mileage creeps up, and the oil starts to colour.
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Post by Caraman Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:32 pm

Peatlander 2 wrote:Every year regardless, pre mot time. Sometimes more if the mileage creeps up, and the oil starts to colour.
Yours is a relatively old vehicle.  Out of interest, what does the servicing schedule say?
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Post by Peatlander 2 Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:57 pm

15000kms...I remember this as when it converts to miles it's an odd number, 9300 miles.

Last couple of years it's had 2 changes a year. The next oil change is due on mine at 110000 miles, the last one was at 106002 miles, so I actually changed it about half way between intervals.

And yes, it's 26 years old  smile!
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Post by Caraman Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:18 pm

Peatlander 2 wrote:15000kms...I remember this as when it converts to miles it's an odd number, 9300 miles.

Last couple of years it's had 2 changes a year. The next oil change is due on mine at 110000 miles, the last one was at 106002 miles, so I actually changed it about half way between intervals.

And yes, it's 26 years old  smile!
She's certainly an old lady and deserving of TLC.  I guess the oil/filter interval was 9300 miles/12 months.  On the more modern Boxer engines that has increased to 12000/12 months but only for arduous use conditions which are defined in the service schedule.  For normal use conditions, its increased to 32000 miles/24 months so quite a change.  I doubt many motorhomes will get close 32k miles over 2 years - my 6k certainly doesn't.  It's possible that filters and other design features have improved over the past 26 years.  The oil/filter intervals are conditional on using the right high spec long life oil which may not have been available 26 years ago.
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Post by Peatlander 2 Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:56 pm

It's the same with our old Land Rover, it's now 43 years old. The oil change frequency in that was 6000 miles, depending on conditions, but I do it every 3000. An old mechanic I used to know back in the mists of time used to say "better cheap oil changed often than expensive oil rarely changed.'. He used motorway oils, and it actually still worked out cheaper overall. His oil changes used to come out pretty clean too.

On oil filters...best to use quality there. I once decided to test some filters by cutting them open. Quite a difference in the amount of filter inside the canister between the cheaper ones and the branded. One of the better cheaper brands was UFI. Unipart too.

Did the same with air filters once too. Same sort of findings.
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Post by IanH Wed Feb 28, 2024 6:03 pm

Compared to an engine change there are two very cheap and absolutely essential things under the bonnet...

Cambelt if it has one, and, especially, OIL
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Post by rgermain Wed Feb 28, 2024 6:07 pm

Caraman wrote:
I agree.  Judgement based on usage is key.  I reckon my usage is as un-arduous as it can be.  Just checked my servicing record.  My first biennial oil change was after 5,238 miles and my second after 5,800 miles.  I doubt my next due in 2025 will be much more than 6k miles.  When I start the engine I immediately embark on a long non-urban journey (100 miles/2 hours +) which I do on average every month.  When we break a journey, it's never long enough for the engine to cool down.  I don't let the engine idle especially when its cold.  When we arrive on pitch we generally stay for about 4 nights and don't use the van as a runabout.  If we need water I bring it to the van rather than take the van to the water.  The most our van weighs is about 3,300 kg and I don't thrash it.  Average dual-carriageway speed 60 mph and the on-board computer tells me I'm averaging 33.9 MPG.
I do let my van idle for about 60 seconds after a run, was told it was to let the turbo cool down. Experts, is this right or wrong?
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Post by Peatlander 2 Wed Feb 28, 2024 6:22 pm

rgermain wrote:I do let my van idle for about 60 seconds after a run, was told it was to let the turbo cool down. Experts, is this right or wrong?
Two ways of looking at that....one, yes, it makes sense as it allows the bearings to cool down, or rather, the oil in the bearings 

Two, still yes, but a different point of view, when you reach your destination, you slow down, manoeuvre, park....all of which are cooler operations than actually driving, so in that respect probably no need to sit and idle..

That all being said, what's a minute between friends?
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Post by Caraman Wed Feb 28, 2024 6:49 pm

I've never deliberately left mine to idle but as Peatlander 2 has said, I'm normally driving quite slowly before I stop and turn the ignition off.  If the engine is hot, I believe the cooling fan continues to operate after the ignition has been turned off.  This might help the turbo if its water cooled.  If it is important to let the engine idle for a minute before turning off, you would have thought it would say something about it in the manual.  My last diesel car had stop start so when I stopped at traffic lights the engine automatically stopped.  I don't remember there been a delay.
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Post by Cymro Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:25 am

I remember reading (about  20 years ago) in some motoring book that it's good practice to let the engine idle for a few minutes after a hard run to allow the turbo to cool with good lubrication. That's especially so after pulling off a motorway for a break in the services. I've done so ever since.

Lots of contradictory stuff on the web, of course. 

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Post by Paulmold Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:29 am

I can't remember which car (I've had so many) but I do remember one of them had a sticker on the sun visor telling you to do exactly that.

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Post by Peatlander 2 Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:41 am

Cymro wrote:

Lots of contradictory stuff on the web, of course. 

Isn't there though.

There are people I know who don't believe anything unless they have seen it on faecesbook or you-choob.

It can't hurt to let a turbo get a cool down, can it? To its normal operating temp any way, it's not going to get cooler than that until the engine is shut down.
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Post by v8oholic Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:58 am

It certainly isn't going to do any harm. This is long standing advice dating from maybe the 1970s when the first turbocharged cars were introduced, and synthetic oils weren't widespread. But I think the circumstances when it might be significant are limited. For example, if you've just driven up a mountain and stopped at the top, or driven round a racetrack and pulled into the pits, the turbocharger and its bearings are going to be very hot from sustained boost, and the oil will be hot too. On the other hand if you've just driven back across town in a 30 mph limit from Tesco, maybe not so much.

Also in these Stop/Start times, you don't really get a say in it. Hopefully they have thought of that with a temperature sensor somewhere!
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Post by mikethebike Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:14 am

babian wrote:This all sounds like I'm reading a "Ducati" forum.
Those that know, know what I mean.
I had a Ducati  748.

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Post by Caraman Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:28 am

I'm going to ask Peugeot about the cool down period.  If I get an answer I'll post it here.
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Post by v8oholic Thu Feb 29, 2024 12:05 pm

From what I have read, some or all Boxer diesel engines have an oil cooler. It's a heat exchanger that cools the engine oil by transferring excess heat into the coolant system. There is more than one turbocharger design nowadays, for example some are water cooled, and the internal pump continues to run for as long as necessary after the engine is switched off. But more commonly, turbocharger bearings are cooled by the engine oil being pumped through when the engine is running. Perhaps it follows that if you prevent the oil getting too hot when the engine is running, it's not an issue anymore when you turn it off.

In any case, delivery vans have a very rough life, being driven hard and then switched off repeatedly all day every day. So you would think they must have worked this all out, otherwise we'd have heard about it by now. Even so, after a long motorway drive I would still let it idle for a minute or two if stopping at the services. It can't hurt.
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