Lithium Battery

I am asking how AutoSleeper owners of MY21 with Lithium Batteries are getting on, and if any issues have arisen.

No replies  must be perfik

Sounds good then, I think?

mm - not bad and not good, if stayovers with EHU all the time are the way you use your van the 60amp supplied is fine but IMO overkill expense-wise. If you use your van off-grid not so good, 60 amp is too small, and Autosleeper have not fitted the supporting electrics to fully take advantage of Lithium properties, ie the batteries can take a 50 amp-hour charge, the alternator can supply it, however, the cabling and B2B can't, it is on a 20 amp fuse and I would say it charges considerably slower than that. Same when you are on hook up the system does not allow for fast charging. The electrical system does not cope with solar above 180w. I asked to have a second 60ah battery fitted, Autosleeper emailed to say that a second battery would blow the fuse or melt the wiring, eventually after playing the not fit-for-purpose card they allow me to have an upgrade to a 100ah battery at my cost. However, the present system is a bit of a dead-end if you want to upgrade your electrical capacity as you will have to bypass the Sargent system and take the fall out on your warranty.

Thanks for the update, i have requested the 100ah to be fitted to my Burford Duo.

We've been very pleased with the Li battery on our new Broadway.  Well, we were once the dealer managed to connect the circuitry for charging it via solar and hookup!

So far so good on our 2021 Neuvo -

DavidinDevon and Neuvobluebird, do you tend to use EHU or camp off grid?

No particular reason for asking other than interest from someone who camps off grid 75% of the time and is interested how lithium batteries perform.

Dbvwt wrote:DavidinDevon and Neuvobluebird, do you tend to use EHU or camp off grid?

No particular reason for asking other than interest from someone who camps off grid 75% of the time and is interested how lithium batteries perform.

Yes David, we need to make sure as they cost £600+
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Richard

And I was miffed at paying £115 for a new leisure battery that was less than 3 years old a few weeks back Richard 

Dbvwt wrote:And I was miffed at paying £115 for a new leisure battery that was less than 3 years old a few weeks back Richard 

Been there, done that at 18mths old from buying the van. Fingers crossed it is still doing well after 4 yrs.  EC 500 bypassed!
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Richard

rgermain wrote:

Dbvwt wrote:DavidinDevon and Neuvobluebird, do you tend to use EHU or camp off grid?

No particular reason for asking other than interest from someone who camps off grid 75% of the time and is interested how lithium batteries perform.

Yes David, we need to make sure as they cost £600+
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Richard

Sorry we have only been off grid for 24 hours, so not much experience. We only had the pump, lights, cooker igniter, electric step and phone taking any current. The pump took about 3A and the rest were minimal.  The solar panel has provided 0.2 to 4A according how sunny it is.  So the Li battery stayed well topped up for that short period.

DavidinDevon wrote:

rgermain wrote:

Dbvwt wrote:DavidinDevon and Neuvobluebird, do you tend to use EHU or camp off grid?

No particular reason for asking other than interest from someone who camps off grid 75% of the time and is interested how lithium batteries perform.

Yes David, we need to make sure as they cost £600+
---------
Richard

Sorry we have only been off grid for 24 hours, so not much experience. We only had the pump, lights, cooker igniter, electric step and phone taking any current. The pump took about 3A and the rest were minimal.  The solar panel has provided 0.2 to 4A according how sunny it is.  So the Li battery stayed well topped up for that short period.

Thanks, same as our old fashioned lead acid battery now 4.5 years old. Will last all the time we are off grid, on bright days. 120w solar,  Sargent  turned on, but solar controller decommissioned and now via MTTP  
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Richard

Hi Lefty, had ours 4 weeks done 2 trips over 700 miles all seemed ok not used van for 2 weeks since , nothing other than Truma i net ( which we wont be using ) drawing 12v power, as far as i know ? has a call from AS Monitor last night to advise leisure battery voltage dropped to 0.6 volts !! Been out today 50 mile trip everything seems to work ok for now on 12v , monitor on panel showing 12.8 volts after trip. I have 2 Classic Motorcycles that both have Lithium batteries fitted and use only now and again they both show 13.2 to 13.5 static voltage, i would have thought the Motorhome battery should show similar static results as its more powerful will be keeping an eye on it now. By the way spoke to Autosleeper before i bought the van as my previous van, Warwick, was always on mains when not used , they advised not to keep the Lithium battery on mains when not in use ??  

Have just read on the Autosleepers Nuevo facebook page someone who had experienced similar problems to tedbus on an Anniversary Neuvo and received calls from their tracker company. They had been advised that As had received a  batch of lithium batteries that were faulty and had management systems that cut out at too high a voltage. They had their battery replaced which seemed to rectify the problem.

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Sorry about posting two of the same. The screen shot shows how much power is going into my home made lithium battery as it’s controlled by the BMS. With the engine running you can see what the EC328 is giving to the leisure battery.

I've been wondering about lithium batteries when my current nearly new lead-acid ones need replacing but I'm not sure about the charging controllers currently installed as the keep the starting battery and leisure batteries at full charge when the engine is running, when on hook-up and given enough light from the solar panel.

This is fine for lead-acid as the I gather they last longest in this condition. I have read that lithium batteries last longest when charged to about 80% and are best kept at about 50% charge.

So if I want to change to lithium do I needs new controllers/chargers ?

Before I fitted my lithium I fitted a bigger PV panel. Looking back I think if I had roof space I would have kept the small 80w panel my 2011 Broadway came with to keep the vehicle battery charged. Last winter it was not a problem as the motorhome is at home, I can start it up. My new panel 120w I fitted a new Victron MPPT charger controller, that worked perfectly just connected across the leisure battery. 

My upgrade to Lithium as a drop in replacement for the leisure battery is charged by the Sargent power supply when on mains hook up. Charged when driving via the Sargent split charging from the alternator and the new panel on the roof. I also have a external panel on another Victron MPPT charger controller that I can angle and track the sun when parked up.

My Broadway EL 2021 has a Lithium Leisure Battery.

Couple of weeks ago it cut out completely, everything stopped, fridge, lights etc.

Was on 3rd night without EHU but total number of hours about 6 max use of some lights only with about 30 miles driving in the day.

Control panel showed leisure battery at around 10 volts, cant remember exactly , started engine next morning ,moved on site to an EHU. Got a phone call from the Tracker Call Centre .

I looked at charging options on control panel , not sure what they were set at but reset to prioritise Leisure.

Not used since without EHU so not sure if there is a problem or not. Was there a problem with a batch of batteries?

On my Broadway I have bluetooth control off phone for Heating etc, i find completely pointless as i have to switch controller to bluetooth may as well switch it on panel.  Would have been much better to have an accurate gas level guage, same as previous van shows empty from when only about quarter tank used!

The lithium shut down at 10 volts is right. I set my Battery Management System to shut off when any cell  that make up the battery drops to 2.5 volts or 10 volt for the battery. Lithium batteries have 4 cells that make up the battery.

I should be known, by now as being near obsessed with simplicity!

We virtually never use an EHU, even on sites if you have to pay extra, including at home.
I'd guess our electrical needs are similar to most, TV, Radio, all LED lights, CH when required (fan needs 12v) , charging of all manner of things from LB, 2 x tablets, 2 x phones, camera batteries and Mifi. (Huawei hand held no aerial, works perfectly)
All of this is perfectly possible with a 100w solar panel and a 110 lead acid battery. A PWM dual battery solar controller feeding directly to both batts +ve via 10A fuse at terminal is simple, trouble free and at all times when not using the van both batteries are 100% full, the only happy state for lead acid batteries.
When in motion, the vehicle alternator does its best.
If we have 12.5v on the LB first thing in the morning having used it the night before, and, perhaps overnight if CH on, and it's a reasonable day, we'll have both batts full by 11 o clock

I also have a mania for avoiding anything Sargent, (my 2002 exec pre dates those from AS thank goodness and if I had it, as we did on the 2 x Warwick Duos we had, it was always bypassed direct to battery for solar as above)

However, as with all things motorhoming, each to their own none of us is 100% correct!!!

I'm with you on this, Ian. I don't have a solar panel, sadly, as with Aircon there isn't room. However, I DO care for my batteries. I replaced the original vehicle battery at 8 years old despite having let it drop to 2V on one occasion during its first winter lay-up (through ignorance of how much quiescent load there is). The original leisure battery is now over 9 years old and still appears ok. We almost invariably use EHU unless it is not available. I don't even have a battery master Lead acid batteries will generally last well if not allowed to drop too low IMHO.

Kevinktwo wrote:mm - not bad and not good, if stayovers with EHU all the time are the way you use your van the 60amp supplied is fine but IMO overkill expense-wise. If you use your van off-grid not so good, 60 amp is too small, and Autosleeper have not fitted the supporting electrics to fully take advantage of Lithium properties, ie the batteries can take a 50 amp-hour charge, the alternator can supply it, however, the cabling and B2B can't, it is on a 20 amp fuse and I would say it charges considerably slower than that. Same when you are on hook up the system does not allow for fast charging. The electrical system does not cope with solar above 180w. I asked to have a second 60ah battery fitted, Autosleeper emailed to say that a second battery would blow the fuse or melt the wiring, eventually after playing the not fit-for-purpose card they allow me to have an upgrade to a 100ah battery at my cost. However, the present system is a bit of a dead-end if you want to upgrade your electrical capacity as you will have to bypass the Sargent system and take the fall out on your warranty.

I was in a similar position when ordering our A/S, I also convinced A/S to upgrade to 100amp, they told me they simply didn't fit any second batteries. I think they suggested I ask the dealer to do that. I actually ended up getting someone else to fit another 100amp battery, so we now have 2 batteries which have worked fine so far. We can use them for 2 or 3 days without EHU quite easily. We are not sure if we need to take any more steps, like adding solar or a new B2B charger to make the most of the Lithium battery capabilities. Currently we like a combination of non EHU and campsites with EHU. Next week I am going try 4/5 days without EHU to see how that goes.
After talking to the specialist who fitted my second battery I think it would get quite expensive to add/adapt solar and fast charging to the Sargent equipment fitted. I suppose it very much depends how you want to camp, I have been quite impressed with the Sargent set up whenever we have been on EHU. And I suspect the main A/S market is for people who spend heir time on EHU campsites, nothing wrong with that. We are hoping to spend much more time in Europe next year, so for us that will be the test to see whether need any more 'off EHU' capability.

“And I suspect the main A/S market is for people who spend heir time on EHU campsites”


Stuart, I completely agree with your comment which is why I don’t understand why they have gone down the lithium route with recent vans? Their lithium installation doesn’t seem properly thought through to me.
I’m still old school, with a decent lead acid battery and as much solar as possible that fits on the roof. I can go for days off grid without issue.