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Weights and whether need to alter suspension?

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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:52 pm

Hi folks. newbie question
Put our Broadway EB on weigh station. Front axle was 1440 kg (rated for 1850 kg) rear axle was 2060 kg (rated 3000). Overall weight was  3520 kg with 3/4 tank fuel and 20 litres of water onboard. We have pared everything to the bone. So, thoughts and options....do we up plate? Do we get suspension altered on rear axle and if so.....what are the options? Do we just live with it? We have a tow bar and electric bikes and bike rack hanging off the back 
Thanks in advance
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Post by PLOUGHLIN Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:13 pm

Do you mean rear axle rated at 2000kg? ie 60kg overloaded. Presumably both driver and passenger were in when weighed? Up plating would serve the max weight problem but not the axle overload. Can you move some storage loads nearer the front of the vehicle to load the front and reduce the rear axle loads?

No idea what uprating the suspension would entail.

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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:21 pm

Rated for 2000, 60 over and we have moved everything we can forward but the front wheels are way up front....and the rear are 1.90 m away from end of motorhome.
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Post by PLOUGHLIN Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:28 pm

Up plating sounds necessary, with your rack and electric bikes. Speak to SVtech, they will know how/if the rear can be modified easily.

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Post by gemdeco Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:30 pm

Hi 
    I presume your Broadway is plated at 3500kg so by your own figures you are 20kg over weight, you could decide not to carry any water, never fill the tank up to more than half full, wing it the chances of getting stopped are slim, or for piece of mind get it up plated , provided you have a C1 licence. there are company's out there that will advise you. SV Tech is the most well known but they are not the cheapest. Depending how much you up plate it depends on any modificationd you may have to make. One bonus is that as PHGV you only pay £165 Road Tax
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Post by Tinwheeler Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:37 pm

You seem to be exceeding your all up weight of 3500kg so you need to pray you don’t get pulled over and marched to a weighbridge.

It seems to me that the towbar, rack and bikes are the culprits and, if you want to continue carrying them, up rating the GVW would seem to be the answer. However, I don’t think that will increase the max axle loadings so you really need to get that sorted. Apart from legalities, overloading the axle could eventually lead to failure and your warranty will be blown out of the window.
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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:45 pm

Apart from sv tech, does anyone know any other companies that do it and suspension modification
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Post by bolero boy Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:57 pm

ive read of a couple of other companies that are similar to SV tech but none of them do the actual mods....all they do is an anaysis of the current state of the van and tell you what can be done to resolve any issues.
once carried out, they will document the changes and provide info to the DVLA to proceed with any licensing /vehicle changes.
as earlier posts, the rear (due to towbar and bikes some distance from axle) is causing a seious overload...the van is illegal as at present state....probably incl invalid insurance

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Post by Tinwheeler Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:01 pm

Exactly, BB, it's a big no-no.

Altering the suspension isn't going to help the overweight issue and that's what needs to be addressed - both of the axle and the GVW.
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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:33 pm

Ok.. I get we need to up plate...can anyone give me the names of companies other than svtech? 
The axle issue.....how do we deal with that...is it a semi air suspension upgrade? Is it a full air suspension upgrade? And does anyone know of any companies which do this, preferably in the SW or Midlands? 
Many thanks
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Post by TeamRienza Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:54 pm

You could chat to these people.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Fairly new to the market, but are motorhomers who converted a van and had to uprate. He is a qualified motor engineer.
Not used them or heard of any one who has used them yet, I heard about them on another forum. Worth a phone call to explore options?

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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:28 pm

Thanks davy
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Post by FreelanderUK Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:49 pm

With the tow bar and rack and ebikes being so far back past the rear axel they will actually cause more weight to be added due to the cantilever effect, you have to loose weight from this area, speak to SVTECH as they are very helpful but it’s very hard to get the axel weights updated with out putting on upgraded wheels ,tyres and air suspension

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Post by bolero boy Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:53 am

again, the mods required to allow further weight upgrads depend on the current state of the van...
eg, we are on the 'light' chassis but, as we have an Al-ko rear (and 16" wheels/tyres) we can be plated at 3850 without any mods, rather than the 3650 without these..
however, none of this increases the allowable loading on the rear axle, which remains at 2000kg....which is where your problem lies.
you have a few choices....
talk to SVTECH and get their advice on physical upgrades
carry less stuff
tow a small trailer for the heavy stuff
look at a different MH perhaps on the heavy chassis.

ps....you ought to load it fully, perhaps with full water and not pared to the bone, so that you (and SVTECH) will know exactly what they are trying to acheive....or that can be acheived.

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Post by Tinwheeler Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:01 am

Plymouthwelshboy wrote:Ok.. I get we need to up plate...can anyone give me the names of companies other than svtech? 
The axle issue.....how do we deal with that...is it a semi air suspension upgrade? Is it a full air suspension upgrade? And does anyone know of any companies which do this, preferably in the SW or Midlands? 
Many thanks
Adding air suspension of any sort will not take weight off the back axle.
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Post by bolero boy Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:29 am

perversely, it would increase the rear axle carrying capacity yet add to the overall weight of the van.
the OP needs to reduce demand (carry less stuff, move to a trailer) or increase supply (more axle capacity, change van).
the EB has 469kg payload, remove 100 for a full water tank and 75 for passenger and this leavesa short 300 which, although tight, 'should' mean the van is usable for most light travellers.
its apparent that the bikes/towbar/rack are the issue which just adds to the inherent rear weight bias of this style of van....eg rear kitchen weight slung out beyond axle.
tis a dilema but one that can be cured with good advice and a bit of technology...

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Post by Tinwheeler Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:42 pm

Mmm, I'm not sure how many times we need to say it's the towbar/rack/bikes hanging on the back that's causing the problem.......
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Post by gemdeco Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:26 pm

Hi
     Have you got the batteries fitted on to the bikes, when they are on the back of your MH if so taking them off and storing them at the front may help your rear axle weight just enough.
 Alan
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Post by Caraman Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:02 pm

Several have rightly commented on the legal and insurance issues of taking the van on the road in its current overloaded condition.  Of even greater importance than this is that the van is unsafe and therefore a risk to other road users as well as its occupants.  It's not just the rear axle that is overloaded.  The tyres are likely to have a load index of 109 and therefore a maximum permitted load of 1030 kg for a maximum permitted pressure of 5.5 bar.  If one of the tyres is carrying more than 1030 kg, which is likely as loading across an axle is never equal, it will be overloaded which is dangerous.  We all have to live within the loading margins of our motorhomes and trim our cloth accordingly.  This is what has to happen here.  If the rear corner steadies are not used, remove them.  Carry the EHU cable in the cab.  My OH uses it as a foot rest.  Use the door pockets and space behind the rear seats for heavy items.  Avoid the temptation of travelling with stuff in the shower.  Dump all water before taking to the road just as caravans do.  As has already been mentioned, everything behind the rear axle is load on the rear axle which adds even more load to the axle by taking it off the front axle.  I suggest fitting a tow bar presumably to carry e-bikes was not a good call.  The Broadway EB has a relatively high MIRO of 3031 kg.  It might help with the loading to ask A-S to break this down by front and rear axle.
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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:55 pm

update: we haven't driven with it overloaded other than to the weigh station by accident - so just to clarify that as people seem to be 'admonishing' us slightly about driver responsibilities - which we are well aware of! (I suspect many have unintentionally driven overweight before; how many have put it on a weigh station - not as many as perhaps should, I suspect). 

When we did go out recently - we left bikes and rack behind and so were within the 3500kg and rear axle weight limit with only 20lts onboard water and three quarters fuel tank.  Although we are newbies we aren't completely daft - some of us have driven 'loaded' expedition/aid vehicles across Africa on a few occasions  hugegrins although admittedly not an autosleeper motorhome  smile!.  Its hard work this motorhome malarkey isn't it. We had already put all heavy items well forward and nothing in the bathroom or shower area but thank you for the advice and reminder - it is appreciated and it is easy to forget that kind of thing in the excitement of wanting to depart on an adventure. 

People are right - it is the bikes, tow bar and the rack what did us in and we were naive on that bit but hey ho you live and learn. Meanwhile for various reasons a trailer really isn't an option for us and having just got this motorhome, swapping it for another isn't either. Anyway we spent weeks looking at motorhomes across dealerships across the country and time and time again the broadway EB won out for us. Can't explain why - no rhyme or reason....funny isnt ie - what grabs you or not. 

As of the moment vanweightengineering and SVTech have advised us to fit semi air suspension to rear axle and they say this will solve the axle loading issue and make the vehicle road legal; and to upgrade our rear tyres to 225/70/R15 with a load rating of 118 or higher. Since we aren't mechanics - we have to trust them. 

112 is doable. However, we have yet to find a tyre for R15 rated above 112 - so if anyone has done this and knows - please help us out here if you can - we'd really appreciate it.  We have scrutinised conti tech brochures, talked to several national and local tyre suppliers and to no avail. The calculations given to us show that if we go with 112 uprated tyres and the semi air suspension then we will gain a further 180kg payload after up plating. 

We had pared everything down - several times actually. The fact is that the payload rating for the Broadway EB is small and when you take off any water and the optional packs - even smaller.  The price we pay for liking it so much and for trusting dealers too much! they knew when we talked with them about the e bikes that a tow bar wasn't the answer but said nothing and we were naive! it took 51.5kg out of the payload immediately and created this problem as a result. Ho hum - we live and learn. The key bit is to make sure any new motorhome owners understand this before making the same mistake we did. 

 Thanks everyone for your help - steep learning curve but genuinely appreciated. this forum is truly amazing, knowledgeable and inspirational. Thanks everyone
steve
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Post by FreelanderUK Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:02 pm

I know of at least 3 people who had to buy new 16inch wheels to fit 16inch tyres with the higher load rating to achieve up plating the van , how much extra should they up rate the rear axel 5weight limit with the new tyres and semi air

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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:07 pm

actually freelander - that is one of the options put to us - but it seemed so costly that we have initially decided against it - trying to find R16's for a broadway as well is proving difficult for newbies like us - so if you know what they got and where from - we'd love to know
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Post by FreelanderUK Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:09 pm

What’s the van make Peugeot  or Fiat ,just look for wheels for that

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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:13 pm

peugeot boxer base model - we have been and interestingly - its not as simple as it first appears - especially if you are a newbie. there are so many types. we contacted local peugeot dealer who said that for this model there are no wheels available at R16 - which left us even more confused.  there are choices but knowing whether they are good or not is tricky; knowing whether they will fit correctly is also tricky - you dont know what you dont know
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Post by PLOUGHLIN Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:23 pm

I suspect to achieve a 118 load rating you need to up to a 16" wheel, Conti 235/65 16C 10 plies would do it.

2640kg load capacity @ 5.25 bar.

How this affects the rolling diameter compared to your existing and speedo accuracy ?

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