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Battery

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Battery Empty Battery

Post by Mids Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:54 am

Hi  I have been on here before talking about batteries.  Would like some advise. M /h has been with the dealer since  december.niw ready to collect. Been monitoring  the batteries  via the as monitor. Couple of times I have had a text message  to say alarm  trigger  or battery  level to low. Highest reading I now get is 11.7 volts on both  batteries. Would I be right it saying that these batteries  need replacing. Seems the dealer has let them discharge  to low now  wont charge upto  over 13 volts as I have had them when parked on my drive on hook up. Dealer telling me  lesiure battery  warranty  has expired .van only 18 months old and vechile  battery  is a Peugeot   problem.  As the van has  been in the care of dealer . Do you think  it is there responsibility  to keep them charged at the correct level.if not for them to replace them.knowlede on battery  levels is  low.could they recharge  and hold 100% charge or have they ruined  them .
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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by burlingtonboaby Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:30 am

Hi mids
I'm not a battery expert,however with have a few knowledgeable guys who should be able to point you in the right direction soon,once they have had their cornflakes.  up!
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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by marconi Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:42 am

Mids wrote:Hi  I have been on here before talking about batteries.  Would like some advise. M /h has been with the dealer since  december.niw ready to collect. Been monitoring  the batteries  via the as monitor. Couple of times I have had a text message  to say alarm  trigger  or battery  level to low. Highest reading I now get is 11.7 volts on both  batteries. Would I be right it saying that these batteries  need replacing. Seems the dealer has let them discharge  to low now  wont charge upto  over 13 volts as I have had them when parked on my drive on hook up. Dealer telling me  lesiure battery  warranty  has expired .van only 18 months old and vechile  battery  is a Peugeot   problem.  As the van has  been in the care of dealer . Do you think  it is there responsibility  to keep them charged at the correct level.if not for them to replace them.knowlede on battery  levels is  low.could they recharge  and hold 100% charge or have they ruined  them .

The very fact that you can check your Battery Voltages means that the stupid Dealer has left the EC700/500 switched on and is continually cycling your batteries.

However the EC700/500 has built in protection which is there to prevent severe Battery discharge, whether the levels chosen are ideal or not we won't go in to.

From the EC700 manual :-

Warnings

Leisure battery voltage low.
With control panel power on and leisure battery selected (as active battery) and the voltage level falls below 10V Message on screen and 60 second audible beep
With control panel power on and leisure battery selected (as active battery) and the voltage level is below 9V Message on screen and 60 second audible beep.
If no action taken after 30 seconds then the system will switch the power off to prevent severe discharge of the battery
Note: This is an emergency cut off level to protect the battery from severe damage. You should not rely on this cut off level during normal operation, but manage your power consumption to a discharge level of 11.5V or above.
This cut off only applies to power drawn from the battery by the leisure equipment that is controlled by the control panel power switch; it will not protect the battery from discharge by permanently connected equipment.


So they can argue that your 11.7V is OK, it may have shortened the Battery life, only a professional test can identify that.

Both Batteries might well recharge and give further service. You first test when you collect the 'van is will the Engine start OK.

Edit : Porridge Boaby
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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by burlingtonboaby Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:17 am

Also had Scott's porridge this morning HF, excellent information you provide.  up!
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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by brodco Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:26 am

Hi  wave

I think it’s really an impossible question to answer.  Too many indeterminate lengths of the proverbial “pieces of string”.  shrugg
Mids wrote: now  wont charge upto  over 13 volts as I have had them when parked on my drive on hook up.
Mids wrote:.could they recharge  and hold 100% charge or have they ruined  them .
If the first statement is true you’ve answered your own question. That said 11.7 V is certainly not terminal and, in any case, it would be unusual for a battery to only charge to 13V. If it had lost capacity, it would normally charge up as usual but not last as long. If it had a duff cell it would normally top out at 11 or 12 Volts (ish).

If the 13V is off load shortly after the charger disconnected it’s ok – it will eventually drop to something like 12.8V

I agree totally with marconi that the dealer should have looked after the battery. Allowing the battery to discharge to 11.7 V will have reduced the capacity at least slightly but by how much (probably very slightly)?

Piece of string no 1:
The battery only has a finite number of charge cycles anyway and is a couple of years old so how many times it has been discharged  in the past and to what level. That will have an effect on the battery capacity when the dealer got it.

Piece of string no 2:
The length of time the battery was in a low state of charge also has an effect so how long did the dealer leave it in a discharged state?

Piece of string no 3:
The reasons for aging / failure of a battery are legion. What’s more they start to fail from the time they are first filled with acid and used, so apart from the number of discharges there will be some degradation anyway.

Piece of string no 4:
What was the design life of the battery? That varies from battery to battery depending on type and (usually) price and is always dependent on use.

Piece of string no 5:
At what point does it need replacing? If you want very close to 100%, you’ll probably need to replace it yearly. Off course most people don’t do that but the point at which the owner deems it time for a replacement varies from person to person.

Annoying as it is, I suspect there is no way of proving how much (if any) damage has been done to the battery.

Mids wrote: Would I be right it saying that these batteries  need replacing.
In my view not just because the dealer allowed it (them) to go to 11.7 V. It will need testing either using a battery tester or by using it. Unfortunately, even if it does need replacing, I doubt if you could legally lay the blame on the dealer.

Err I'm a porridge man as well! hugegrins

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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by glyne lock Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:03 pm

Mids wrote:Hi  I have been on here before talking about batteries.  Would like some advise. M /h has been with the dealer since  december.niw ready to collect. Been monitoring  the batteries  via the as monitor. Couple of times I have had a text message  to say alarm  trigger  or battery  level to low. Highest reading I now get is 11.7 volts on both  batteries. Would I be right it saying that these batteries  need replacing. Seems the dealer has let them discharge  to low now  wont charge upto  over 13 volts as I have had them when parked on my drive on hook up. Dealer telling me  lesiure battery  warranty  has expired .van only 18 months old and vechile  battery  is a Peugeot   problem.  As the van has  been in the care of dealer . Do you think  it is there responsibility  to keep them charged at the correct level.if not for them to replace them.knowlede on battery  levels is  low.could they recharge  and hold 100% charge or have they ruined  them .
The vehicle battery has a 2 year warranty
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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by burlingtonboaby Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:09 pm

Fills you up for the day Brod, the thicker the better.
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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by brodco Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:15 pm

Hi  wave

glyne lock wrote:The vehicle battery has a 2 year warranty

Yes and the leisure battery will also have a warranty of some kind but it will normally be for “faulty materials or workmanship”. It won’t apply if the battery has been damaged by mistreatment or to what would be considered normal degradation.

burlingtonboaby wrote:Fills you up for the day Brod, the thicker the better. Boaby
 up!

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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by glyne lock Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:57 pm

brodco wrote:Hi  wave

glyne lock wrote:The vehicle battery has a 2 year warranty

Yes and the leisure battery will also have a warranty of some kind but it will normally be for “faulty materials or workmanship”. It won’t apply if the battery has been damaged by mistreatment or to what would be considered normal degradation.

burlingtonboaby wrote:Fills you up for the day Brod, the thicker the better. Boaby
 up!

Brod
So if the dealer has let the batteries become damaged will have to replace under warranty or by them self as they have damaged them
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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by Caraman Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:20 pm

Mids wrote:Been monitoring  the batteries  via the as monitor. Couple of times I have had a text message  to say alarm  trigger  or battery  level to low. Highest reading I now get is 11.7 volts on both  batteries. 
Mids,
As has already been mentioned, if you have received a vehicle battery low voltage SMS alert and you can see the vehicle battery voltage on AS Monitor, the ECXXX must have been left on.  If you have received low voltage alerts for either battery, that indicates the voltage dropped below 11.3V.  This may have been caused by a temporary load on the battery e.g. the central locking or habitation step being used.  What intrigues me is the alarm alert you received.  Does your Broadway have an alarm and if so what type is it, has it been connected to the Tracker to allow alarm alerts to be sent and did you set up alarm alerts on AS Monitor?  When you received the alarm alert, did you also get a phone call from the manned tracking centre in Bedford to say that the alarm had been triggered?
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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by brodco Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:36 pm

Hi wave

glyne lock wrote:So if the dealer has let the batteries become damaged will have to replace under warranty or by them self as they have damaged them

Yes I agree that if the dealer had damaged them due to negligence it would be up to them to replace it. I think the problem in this case in that:
A, There is no evidance so far that the batteries have been damaged (unless I've missed something).  scratch head

B, Given the points I made in my last post and the fact that the batteries are a couple of years old (ish) I think it would be impossible to prove any damage was done by the dealer.  shrugg

You can always ask the dealer to replace them but if they refuse you would have to go to the small claims court and because of the difficulty of proving anything I suspect you would loose.

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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by glyne lock Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:09 pm

[quote="brodco"]Hi wave

glyne lock wrote:So if the dealer has let the batteries become damaged will have to replace under warranty or by them self as they have damaged them

Yes I agree that if the dealer had damaged them due to negligence it would be up to them to replace it. I think the problem in this case in that:
A, There is no evidance so far that the batteries have been damaged (unless I've missed something).  scratch head

B, Given the points I made in my last post and the fact that the batteries are a couple of years old (ish) I think it would be impossible to prove any damage was done by the dealer.  shrugg

You can always ask the dealer to replace them but if they refuse you would have to go to the small claims court and because of the difficulty of proving anything I suspect you would loose.
A any battery well have had the life shorten in the case of what has happened here
B as to the batteries age if a dealer has damaged them word need to replace them this is why they have an insurance to cover problems like this
the same thing has just happened to my camper by A/S and getting sorted
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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by Mids Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:35 am

Hi caraman
 Answer is yes we have a tracker  and received  messages  from  the tracking  centre saying the alarm has triggered   and vechile battery  low
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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by Caraman Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:34 am

Mids wrote:Hi caraman
 Answer is yes we have a tracker  and received  messages  from  the tracking  centre saying the alarm has triggered   and vechile battery  low
Thanks.  All 2019 Auto-Sleepers have the tracker but they don't have vehicle alarms unless one is fitted as an after-market alarm.  Do you have an after-market vehicle alarm?
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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by Mids Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:40 pm

Yes
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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by Caraman Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:07 pm

Mids wrote:Yes
Thanks Mids.  I've sent you a PM.
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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by Tigerfish Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:58 pm

I have the opposite problem.  The Vehicle battery!  The MH has been located in a nice warm barn since 1st December, connected from time to time on the EHU, but due to my MH Inexperience it was only charging the leisure battery not the Vehicle battery- which is now stone dead. Not even strong enough to open the central locking system.  My farmer friend has managed to charge it up enough  for me to be able to start it. But will the battery be knackered now? it was down to 1.5 Volts!

Have caravanned for 40 years but new to MH !

Its a 2016 Broadway EK, only 4,500 miles from new!

TF
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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by Caraman Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:09 pm

As it has been recharged sufficiently to restart the engine I would definitely give it a go for a while whilst monitoring its voltage and see what happens.  It might be OK but it might not.  Generally if you discharge an older starter battery it spells trouble.  In my experience starter batteries should last a lot longer than 5 years providing they are not discharged.
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Battery Empty Re: Battery

Post by brodco Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:20 pm

Tigerfish wrote:But will the battery be knackered now? it was down to 1.5 Volts!

I certainly won't have done it any good!

That said I think while it may be recoverable to the point where it is usable it’s unlikely to recover full capacity but with a starter battery, hopefully you don’t need full capacity – just enough to turn the engine for a few seconds. CCA (cold cranking amperage is more important).

How long did it take to charge? The longer it takes to recharge the better the signs. Charging very quickly is a sign of a duff (i.e. low capacity) battery.

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