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How much Payload

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Post by steamdrivenandy on Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:09 pm

Lancy wrote:We have never weighed the MH....we have always had 4 berth as that is what we find comfy for 2 adults and 2 large dogs. The only extra gear of any weight has been an awning. We were more conscious when we had a caravan but only in the sense of what we travelled with in the car V caravan.  Have we been neglectful as all these mentioned figures and spreadsheets seem overbearing never mind extremely time consuming!

Depends if you fancy taking a risk and getting pulled over to be weighed. Whilst it may seem a bother, it's what the law requires.
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Post by bolero boy on Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:38 pm

"Add in another 100kg for passenger and the driver's weight above the 75kg allowance"...


Pardon?....Andy, are you suggesting a typical couple weigh 175kg??

to put this into perspective, in 1963 Muhammed Ali (at 6' 3") weighed almost 94 kg (207lb, 14st 7lb) when he fought Henry Cooper who was 21lb (a stone and a half) lighter at 84kg (186lb, 13st 4lb).

i know times have changed and that 'we' are all a 'little larger' now apparently...but the combined weight of these two top Heavyweight fighters was 178kg.

i cant believe you meant a typical couple 
in a MH would weigh the same as two heavyweight boxers?

for comparison, the 75kg 'allowance' is well ample for us two lithe vanners, total weight  of 115kg....hence plenty of payload...

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Post by Lancy on Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:46 pm

[quote="steamdrivenandy"][quote="Lancy"]We have never weighed the MH....we have always had 4 berth as that is what we find comfy for 2 adults and 2 large dogs. The only extra gear of any weight has been an awning. We were more conscious when we had a caravan but only in the sense of what we travelled with in the car V caravan.  Have we been neglectful as all these mentioned figures and spreadsheets seem overbearing never mind extremely time consuming![/quote]

Depends if you fancy taking a risk and getting pulled over to be weighed. Whilst it may seem a bother, it's what the law requires.[/quote]


SDA how often do you take your van to be weighed?
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:47 pm

I'll let you into a little secret 6ft 2ins and 106kg

5ft 2ins and 82kg

Combined 188kg 

I would suggest that our weight is around what an average couple of motorhomers weigh these days,

I mean I haven't weighed 75kg since I was 11 years old.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:52 pm

Lancy wrote:
steamdrivenandy wrote:
Lancy wrote:We have never weighed the MH....we have always had 4 berth as that is what we find comfy for 2 adults and 2 large dogs. The only extra gear of any weight has been an awning. We were more conscious when we had a caravan but only in the sense of what we travelled with in the car V caravan.  Have we been neglectful as all these mentioned figures and spreadsheets seem overbearing never mind extremely time consuming!

Depends if you fancy taking a risk and getting pulled over to be weighed. Whilst it may seem a bother, it's what the law requires.


SDA how often do you take your van to be weighed?

I haven't recently because we travel very, very light and never carry water and I have a spreadsheet with a weight for everything in the van. Which, incidentally, has a 3,000kg gross weight, not 3500kg.
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Post by Lancy on Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:04 pm

[quote="bolero boy"]"Add in another 100kg for passenger and the driver's weight above the 75kg allowance"...


Pardon?....Andy, are you suggesting a typical couple weigh 175kg??

to put this into perspective, in 1963 Muhammed Ali (at 6' 3") weighed almost 94 kg (207lb, 14st 7lb) when he fought Henry Cooper who was 21lb (a stone and a half) lighter at 84kg (186lb, 13st 4lb).

i know times have changed and that 'we' are all a 'little larger' now apparently...but the combined weight of these two top Heavyweight fighters was 178kg.

i cant believe you meant a typical couple 
in a MH would weigh the same as two heavyweight boxers?

for comparison, the 75kg 'allowance' is well ample for us two lithe vanners, total weight  of 115kg....hence plenty of payload...[/quote]


Very similar combined weight of me and Mr L so also plenty of payload plus the combined weight of the dogs on top, so just as I thought.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:20 pm

Ali was 21 when he fought Henry Cooper, I doubt he weighed 94kg in 2014, when he was 72. At 21 I probably weighed about 95kg too. So I've added 11 kg in 50 years.

Mrs SDA weighed 45kg when we married in '76.
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Post by bolero boy on Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:23 am

steamdrivenandy wrote:I'll let you into a little secret 6ft 2ins and 106kg

5ft 2ins and 82kg

Combined 188kg 

I would suggest that our weight is around what an average couple of motorhomers weigh these days,

I mean I haven't weighed 75kg since I was 11 years old.
Andy, this thread is about payload not folks' weight and i certainly don't want this to appear personal, but your weight details and reaction really shocked me.

do you really think a combined weight of almost 30 stones is normal for a couple? 
15/15, 20/10, 18/12, 16/14, 17/13...whichever way you slice it thats still a lot of weight....but i guess this is how we as a nation keep 'expanding'....by seeing 30 stones as normal.

so ill also let you into a little secret...
its not not just me (or Lancy, above) but but most medical charts that would also disagree with you...

a 5' 2" lady weighing almost 13 stones is mightily, seriously (dangerously?) heavy....a BMI of 33!
a 6' 2" chap weighing almost 17 stones is also mightily heavy......a BMI of also over 30!

I'm sure there are more folk weighing more these days, they are right in front of you, but that doesnt make it 'normal' or healthy.

its obvious you're a big guy.....but ill wager that, at 72 and at your weight, you aren't out jogging every day nor in the Gym twice a week....which means that 106kg wont be 106kg much longer.....as its far easier for it to move in the wrong direction than the right one....

as above, this isn't really the thrust of this thread and my reaction to your number was certainly not intended to be personal (rather a general comment on 'normal weight') , so lets leave it there so as not to stray away from 'payload issues'...

i wish you luck with yours...smile!

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Post by willy eckerslike on Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:58 pm

bolero boy wrote:
steamdrivenandy wrote:I'll let you into a little secret 6ft 2ins and 106kg

5ft 2ins and 82kg

Combined 188kg 

I would suggest that our weight is around what an average couple of motorhomers weigh these days,

I mean I haven't weighed 75kg since I was 11 years old.
Andy, this thread is about payload not folks' weight and i certainly don't want this to appear personal, but your weight details and reaction really shocked me.

do you really think a combined weight of almost 30 stones is normal for a couple? 
15/15, 20/10, 18/12, 16/14, 17/13...whichever way you slice it thats still a lot of weight....but i guess this is how we as a nation keep 'expanding'....by seeing 30 stones as normal.

so ill also let you into a little secret...
its not not just me (or Lancy, above) but but most medical charts that would also disagree with you...

a 5' 2" lady weighing almost 13 stones is mightily, seriously (dangerously?) heavy....a BMI of 33!
a 6' 2" chap weighing almost 17 stones is also mightily heavy......a BMI of also over 30!

I'm sure there are more folk weighing more these days, they are right in front of you, but that doesnt make it 'normal' or healthy.

its obvious you're a big guy.....but ill wager that, at 72 and at your weight, you aren't out jogging every day nor in the Gym twice a week....which means that 106kg wont be 106kg much longer.....as its far easier for it to move in the wrong direction than the right one....

as above, this isn't really the thrust of this thread and my reaction to your number was certainly not intended to be personal (rather a general comment on 'normal weight') , so lets leave it there so as not to stray away from 'payload issues'...

i wish you luck with yours...smile!
As  Terry Jones said in Life of Brian “how much more personal could you get !”

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Post by bolero boy on Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:33 pm

Andy and i have chatted about this and neither of us have an issue with it....
some might think it was personal, i posted it was not and that it was about the 75kg per person allowance...end of:smile!:

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Post by Caraman on Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:51 am

For the record, the Nuevo EK has the largest payload but the least space to use it - front axle 546 kg, rear axle 480 kg and overall 676 kg.  The rear axle payload is the first to be used up noting that any load behind the rear axle, including a trailer's nose weight, transfers mass from the front axle onto the rear axle.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:00 am

With regard to trailer , or indeed a towed car's noseweight, I really have no idea how much weight to expect, never having towed either. I have a good idea of the sort of noseweight imposed by a caravan hitch, having towed four different models over the years, but what should you expect from trailers or a towed car?
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:14 am

If it is a towed car, very little ball load, 10kg?. A trailer should be set up as for a caravan load for stability, 70ish kg?

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Post by Caraman on Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:17 am

steamdrivenandy wrote:With regard to trailer , or indeed a towed car's noseweight, I really have no idea how much weight to expect, never having towed either. I have a good idea of the sort of noseweight imposed by a caravan hitch, having towed four different models over the years, but what should you expect from trailers or a towed car?
The C&MC recommend that 7% of the total weight of the loaded trailer should be on the nose providing the drawbar and towbar/towing vehicle nose weight limits allows it.  This principle should apply to any trailer.  If less than 7% of the total weight of the trailer is on the nose, it is more likely to suffer from instability at speed especially going downhill although there are many other causes of instability.
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Post by Caraman on Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:26 am

The above advice is for a trailer with a centre axle or axles.  If it has axles at each end like a towed car, the advice must be different but I don't know what it is.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:29 am

Isn't the CMC recommendation between 5% and 7% of the loaded weight, so slightly less rigid. Not sure how that works out for towed cars that are on 4 wheels, there'll be plenty of pulled weight but little noseweight on the hitch I would've thought.@
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Post by Caraman on Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:04 am

steamdrivenandy wrote:Isn't the CMC recommendation between 5% and 7% of the loaded weight, so slightly less rigid. 
i think you are right.  Some tow cars can't achieve 7% but 7% is best.  When I towed I set the nose weight to the maximum allowed on the drawbar which was normally 100 kg or the maximum nose weight allowed on the tow bar/ball whichever was lower.
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:17 am

For towed car, tow ball load is never going to be more than about half the A frame weight, ie 10-15 kg.

The trailer I used for my Smart car is purpose designed for the weight distribution of a Smart, to give a reasonable tow ball load, I can just about lift the hitch so about 75 kg.

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Post by ajrm on Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:37 pm

gemdeco wrote:Hi
    To be honest I do not think we take a lot of extra's with us, we have taken the Fiamma box off the back, the bikes we rarely take with us so I have not counted them. We do cook most meals , eat and wash in the MH, so we need pots and pans, we have two fairly heavy outside chairs, I carry a tyre pump ,a couple of odd tools and that is about it. As the the mention of an AS Bourton, we started off with an AS Surrey same layout almost and did not like the end kitchen by the door a bit cramped. My wife has seen a Burstner Lyseo Harmony TD680 that she likes but the fittings seem cheap and I do not really want a Fiat Auto so I must keep looking
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We had a Broadway FB (bought new in 2013). We expected the build quality to be superior to other vans ( because AS advertise it as such) 
Although we loved the van and nothing stopped us using it, we had so many bits fall off it or fail in the 3 years and 22000 miles we owned it.
We now have a Burstner Harmony Line Ti736 ( similar to the Lyseo you mentioned, but a manual) Bought new in Oct 2018. 
We have covered 18000 miles in 2 years and nothing has fallen off, come loose or broken. It’s still like new. 
I can assure you, there is nothing cheap about the fittings or anything else, compared to our Broadway.

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Post by steamdrivenandy on Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:51 pm

It's weird to hear of an ex-owner having two such widely disparate experiences. Most of the fixtures, fittings, appliances and furniture tends to be the same, or come from the same sources, so why should they fail/fall off an A/S and not a Burstner. A/S is, of course, now a Trigano brand and Burstner a Hymer, or should I say Thor Industries Inc brand.
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Post by Peter Brown on Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:16 pm

ajrm wrote:
We now have a Burstner Harmony Line Ti736 ( similar to the Lyseo you mentioned, but a manual) Bought new in Oct 2018. 
We have covered 18000 miles in 2 years and nothing has fallen off, come loose or broken. It’s still like new. 
I can assure you, there is nothing cheap about the fittings or anything else, compared to our Broadway.

During the first two years my brother had his latest Burstner his most frequent trip was from Peebles to Lincolnshire to have problems with toilet, electric bed lift and many other corrected. I guess with any van you take pot luck.
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