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Post by kaspian on Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:25 pm

I am confused, 3 months ago Labour and MrCorbyn were pilloried and ridiculed for daring to want to spend money. Where is that money tree they asked? Three months later the current government are falling over themselves to spend any amount of money that would literally take a rainforest full of money trees and more .   Not being political understand but  can anyone explain where this money comes from? Who do we get it from ? Someone somewhere must have very big pockets to shell out trillions especially at low interest rates....is it the oil producing countries, Russian oligarchs? Cant just print money surely?  scratch head scratch head confused3  confused , but as a pensioner now I have a few quid I could lend them now my van will be sorned.
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Post by daisy mae on Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:50 pm

I cannot see that there was a choice in the present situation, borrowing I guess, 3 months ago no one thought the country would be in the state it is in, what do you suggest, not borrow money and to h... with the population,

No country has had this virus before and all are in the same situation, we just have to hope that we get through it with out catching it,

If people pull together and help, we will get through it, we now need the bulldog spirit, I think the government is doing its best in terrible circumstances, all right I agree Boris should have shut the country down weeks ago, still some are still doing their own thing, if it was done earlier, possibly some would have got fed up and not bothered, seems he can`t win either way, with some.and needs us to get behind the government. It is going to get worse before it gets better, and so needs us all to do our best to help.

Not the time for slagging matches about political parties. He has had a hard job from the beginning, I can think of previous PMs who would have crumpled long before now.

Keep safe. enjoy those little jobs you have put off and think when we can all get travelling everything will be in shipshape condition. hugegrins

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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:12 am

Basically by Quantitative Easing. BoE buys Government Debt (new Gilts) which pay interest received from the Government. BoE issues new money based on the Asset held (Gilts). Interest received is paid as dividend to the shareholder (Government).

Got it?

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Post by babian on Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:55 am

No!! Peter L,    I for one don't " got it".
do not see any politics at all in the original post.
simple question as stated, how does any countries government at the time " make" new money from thin air  when needed for an emergency ?
Peter L, thanks for your answer but please explain in Laymans terms.
Let school time begin, all in class sit down and listen now.
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Post by rgermain on Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:55 am

What ever happened to Brexit scratch head scratch head
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Post by kaspian on Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:08 am

No DM but in this case forget the nonsense about bulldog spirit etc, I stated I don't care about politics in this instance but rather the mechanics about how a country , any country suddenly gets their hands on shed loads of cash as there must be many in the same position. Thanks Babian/Peter  but you got the grasp of my question.
     Peter, like Babian  I haven't got it .....from what you say is it the case that someone ultimately just gets the John Bull  printing set out, a few very well paid people make a lot of money and we all move on??  Now, am I right,   government borrows money from itself basically , prints /issues money then pays itself interest on the money borrowed ??   Sounds a bit yes minister/ Monty python to me ... scratch head
      Yes Richard *r*it disappeared overnight, it's a great time for ANY government to bury bad news as tv is 24 hour covid coverage. At least Parkys free  pen adverts have subsided as   us oldies are perhaps not such a good bet for these companies at the moment.
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:11 am

That is about it, kaspian. One of the benefits of having your own currency, if UK had joined the Eurozone it would be totally different.

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Post by groundhog on Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:20 am

Excellent question kaspian....
up!
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Post by Askit on Wed May 06, 2020 1:32 pm

Ok, I'm the kind of guy who has trouble working out my pocket money so high finance is really a mystery  think_smiley_46 I understand and support emergency finance being made available for viable businesses caught out by the current pandemic.

Does anyone else equate big companies, like Virgin, asking the government for bail out money see it like I do, that they are really asking the Great British public to direct our taxes in their direction? As I say, all this stuff goes over my head but P&O asking for £150m from the taxpayer whilst their parent company is apparently paying out dividends of £240m to shareholders rather grates a little.

Have I missed something?

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Post by tallslimdave on Wed May 06, 2020 2:47 pm

When/if this is all over we ll all get the bill !

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Post by Greyhound on Wed May 06, 2020 4:20 pm

Askit wrote:Does anyone else equate big companies, like Virgin, asking the government for bail out money see it like I do, that they are really asking the Great British public to direct our taxes in their direction?

Well that's a particular sticking point.  Virgin healthcare has stung the NHS for billions of money by 'winning' tenders that should have been dealt with internally by the NHS system rather than the privatised structure that's been put in place to make the NHS a cash cow for the rich.

Branson squirrels his profits away offshore without paying much to the UK tax system, but then expects a bail out from the very system he's abused.
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Post by kaspian on Wed May 06, 2020 4:46 pm

Don't worry Greyhound it will all be better once we have TrumpCare   hugegrins   ( take 2 swings of bleach and gargle twice a day!! )
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Post by groundhog on Wed May 06, 2020 6:57 pm

Greyhound wrote:
Askit wrote:Does anyone else equate big companies, like Virgin, asking the government for bail out money see it like I do, that they are really asking the Great British public to direct our taxes in their direction?

Well that's a particular sticking point.  Virgin healthcare has stung the NHS for billions of money by 'winning' tenders that should have been dealt with internally by the NHS system rather than the privatised structure that's been put in place to make the NHS a cash cow for the rich.

Branson squirrels his profits away offshore without paying much to the UK tax system, but then expects a bail out from the very system he's abused.
I made my living in the airline business, here are some little known or overlooked facts. VA are not seeking a bailout they are seeking a loan, here are major reasons they should not get one! VA is owned 49% by  Delta Airlines, itself getting a bailout from the US, Delta are refusing to fund Virgin Atlantic and are owed significant sums by them for a failed deal with another airline group. If your own shareholders are not willing to further back the company then why risk giving a loan? Virgin Atlantic has made a loss in most of the last 10 years so is in no position to repay a loan. It has received tax credits in then last two years , Mr Branson is of course a self confessed tax exile. The track record of the Virgin group in aviation is viewed on his personality not historic fact which is littered with failure. Virgin Express, Little red, Virgin Nigeria, Virgin Australia, all are no more. Look at the Virgin role via Connect Airways in the failure of Flybe, google it if you are interested. I could go on tap_fingers

If Virgin get a loan that is unlikely to ever be repaid I will be sorely disappointed. No emotion from me, it is simply commercially not justifiable. censored!
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Post by Greyhound on Thu May 07, 2020 9:53 am

I think we're splitting hairs.

A quick google for definition of bailout - an act of giving financial assistance to a failing business or economy to save it from collapse.

So a government loan to assist VA is a bailout.

I think the sentiment is more that a company that avoids paying tax shouldn't get government support (loan or whatever) using tax payers money.
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Post by groundhog on Thu May 07, 2020 10:10 am

Greyhound wrote:I think we're splitting hairs.

A quick google for definition of bailout - an act of giving financial assistance to a failing business or economy to save it from collapse.

So a government loan to assist VA is a bailout.

I think the sentiment is more that a company that avoids paying tax shouldn't get government support (loan or whatever) using tax payers money.
I am certainly not splitting hairs with you Greyhound and agree 100%.

RB is using the argument that easyjet has received a loan so why shouldn't he. The point here is that easyjet has been profitable, has paid its taxes in the UK as has its founder Stelios and is in a position to repay that loan. The polar opposite of Virgin Atlantic and RB. I agree with you.
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