Kafka is alive and well...

I have just had notification of a £12 tax rebate. To claim it now ( rather than waiting 2 months for it to come by post) I have to register with either Gov.UK Verify or the Government Gateway.

To register with the Government Gateway I have to put in a password and ID number, which I do not have and have never had, before I can begin the process. After going round a couple of times and being timed out, I give up.

So; to use Gov.UK Verify I have to answer lots of fairly personal questions before I am given a choice of 6 firms who can " verify my identity ". I choose the Post Office being one of 2 that I have actually heard of.

I give them accurate details of my address, marrital status, driving licence, passport, credit card and answer questions about debts, hire purchase, mobile phone contracts, loans and my grandfather's inside leg measurement ( OK joking there...)

I am told it cannot verify my identity so:

I have to download an app - which will take up to an hour it says
I then have to scan a QR code and upload a current photo of me and my passport .

When I have done this I have to go on to the next stage.

I try asking via chat why they can't verify my identity but they can't answer and give me a phone number.

Ten minutes on hold- Freephone- and I am referred to another - paid- phone number. 

I have just given up and will wait the specified 2 months for my £12.  I hope I have stopped gibbering before then.

Go through a speed camera, sorry SAFETY camera, they'l find out who you are & where you live & it will all arrive by  the next post.  stards!

Hi

I went through the process last week for a £58.40 rebate. After a few hiccups finally got there after they did a Credit Reference check. I did not have a valid Passport (out of date) also they wanted to send a Check Code to another phone, already had one send to my mobile. Anyway the money is in my bank account now so the system works.

I remember something similar happening to me and nuevogirl (I think it was to do with registering for state pensions).
Basically it was inferring we didn't exist, as we don't have either a passport or modern driving licence with photo on it.
We just wait patiently and everything arrives in the post at some time or other.
Most people seem to think it's illegal to still have the old pink driving license (they're wrong) and the only photo ID we have is our bus passes. However, here in Wales, we now have to change those for some reason, and I'm not even sure the new ones have photos on.
Meanwhile, we can quietly carry on our lives incognito.

The Government Gateway works fine for everything, and if I remember right I registered several months before my state pension was due. 
It's a bit of a faff registering, but it's a one off process.
I'm in the process of getting our will written up, and the solicitor required a photo ID off both of us.
Al.

I can understand the frustration at what looks a bit like paranoia, but as a counter to that, the one thing we don't want to see is a govt. dept. being sloppy with its citizens' data, so on that count I applaud them for being thorough.

Although you can't do a huge amount via the Government Gateway, IMO they made the right decision to start off with a high level of security. If you do it any other way, it's very hard to then impose higher security on those people that have already registered.

And what you can access through the system can be useful - for example it lets you see your NI contributions to date - along with a cost to add voluntary years - and also gives your State Pension forecast - so it's not entirely useless!

Thanks all: a little bit of sympathy does wonders as does knowing you’re not alone. I will say this; their follow-up, from my online chat and complaint e- mail has been very fast and efficient. 

Part of the Gov. Gateway problem seems to be that I first registered with them in 2008, did not then have a password and have not been back since.  The website still remembers my e- mail address and log in name and won’t let me go further without the non- existent password !

Are you sure it is legit? some of these things have been scammers?

Myself I wouldn`t go there. just saying, be careful.

This is not a scam, the details of repayment due arrive by post. Proper brown government issue envelope. There are 3 sheets of paper with computation and explanatory notes. Authentic.
The straightforward way to claim is via the government gateway.
They promise repayment into your bank account within 5 working days. My repayment was made in 3.
However you are right to be suspicious of anything offering money, especially unexpected and a four figure sum in my case and asking for bank details.
I did my due diligence checks before initiating my claim.

Davy

I'm very impressed by all these refunds, in the past, all my communications were to tell me by how much I have underpaid my tax 

Please excuse me for being thick, but was I asleep or what, so what is Kafka?

I might add I have been using Gateway for many years for lots of reasons and still do for SA tax without any problems.
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Richard

Franz Kafka was a German novelist whose books include The Trial - describing a person's struggle with tortuous bureaucracy. Hence "Kafkaesque" to describe Subject v. The State. It's an experience to read it (and his other novels) - you really share his anxiety and frustration. Sounds dull, but I assure you it's gripping.

Cymro

Quilter wrote:Part of the Gov. Gateway problem seems to be that I first registered with them in 2008, did not then have a password and have not been back since.  The website still remembers my e- mail address and log in name and won’t let me go further without the non- existent password !

Odd you were never sent a password. I seem to remember my password came by post several days after I registered. On their recommendation I changed it as soon as I entered the site.
Perhaps things were different back in 2008.
Al.

I did a German for Scientists course at uni and we spent a lot of it reading The Trial  and Metamorphosis. I’ m not sure we got the nuances of them but we certainly shared the anxiety and frustration.

I don’t know why I didn’t get/ need a password in 2008. I’m pretty organised at storing passwords and am sure I would have done so if I had. I have the answers to 3 questions there as well as the ID, which is clearly one of my made- up ones.

nuevoboy wrote:I remember something similar happening to me and nuevogirl (I think it was to do with registering for state pensions).
Basically it was inferring we didn't exist, as we don't have either a passport or modern driving licence with photo on it.
We just wait patiently and everything arrives in the post at some time or other.
Most people seem to think it's illegal to still have the old pink driving license (they're wrong) and the only photo ID we have is our bus passes. However, here in Wales, we now have to change those for some reason, and I'm not even sure the new ones have photos on.
Meanwhile, we can quietly carry on our lives incognito.

We also don't have passports and Carol doesn't drive therefore no driving license. Has anyone tried to open a bank account in this day and age without those? A tax code notification is acceptable as an alternative despite it not having a photo on it but Carol hadn't received one during her last year of working so a phone call needed to local tax office only to be told she didn't exist, so where had her tax payments gone? Another phone call to N.I office in Newcastle who told her that of course they had her details , so HM government offices are not interconnected by computer. 
Another acceptable means of ID is a utility bill. As I paid all bills , these have been in my name for over 40 years, so Carol couldn't use those. Everything seems to be pointing to her non-existence . 
The point I'm making is put everything in joint names if you wish to avoid such experience.

By the way the new Welsh bus passes do have photo as the online application asks if you wish to use the photo they already have on file or if you would like to upload a new one.

I tried though government gateway as l registered for my pension. I have no passport but hey they have security checks. All went well until l was asked which of the addresses l have lived in the past 40 years. Never heard of any of them. I've lived here for the past 40 years. Never did get through so phoned some number. Can't remember which but was answered straight away and a week later my check arrived. Magic!!

"Another acceptable means of ID is a utility bill. As I paid all bills , these have been in my name for over 40 years, so Carol couldn't use those. Everything seems to be pointing to her non-existence ."

I have recently been making sure that all utilities are now held in joint names, having known friends having problems accessing accounts when their spouse, in whose sole name everything was, died. This has also come in useful recently for ID purposes with solicitors etc. 

I also make sure that an up to date list of all online access codes, passwords, etc. is stored in the safe, so everything would be accessible to Mrs B in the event of my untimely demise or sudden mental incapacitation.

Paulmold wrote: 
The point I'm making is put everything in joint names if you wish to avoid such experience.

I agree that it's sensible to ensure that each person in a couple has her / his name on at least 2 utility bills. Indeed, Paul's advice is sound as far as utilities are concerned. 

But be careful when it comes to credit cards. Joint bank current accounts are held, as the name implies, by both people; if one dies, the account remains open and the survivor can use it with no fuss. But credit cards are different. They are in the name of one person (let's say the wife). The H may have a card on that account, as an "authorised cardholder".  But if W dies, her account is immediately closed, and H cannot use his card. Hence it's sensible for both W and H to open a credit card account in each name, and to give the spouse an authorised card. On death, the survivor's own account continues.

Cymro

Not wishing to inject a note of gloom but, before we go away, I always give one of my children a sealed letter with a list of all my investments, accounts and account numbers and approximate balances. They also know who our solicitor is.  That way, if we are both wiped out, my estate is easily sorted without any surprises.

Cymro wrote:

Paulmold wrote: 
The point I'm making is put everything in joint names if you wish to avoid such experience.

I agree that it's sensible to ensure that each person in a couple has her / his name on at least 2 utility bills. Indeed, Paul's advice is sound as far as utilities are concerned. 

But be careful when it comes to credit cards. Joint bank current accounts are held, as the name implies, by both people; if one dies, the account remains open and the survivor can use it with no fuss. But credit cards are different. They are in the name of one person (let's say the wife). The H may have a card on that account, as an "authorised cardholder".  But if W dies, her account is immediately closed, and H cannot use his card. Hence it's sensible for both W and H to open a credit card account in each name, and to give the spouse an authorised card. On death, the survivor's own account continues.

Realising this last year, I applied for and got a credit card in my name. (I’m Mrs Harry). Getting a credit card, irrespective of what else is in your name, proved difficult when you’ve never had credit and no mortgage for over 25 years. On the same subject, I realised my husband had two insurances in his name (van and car), so  I changed the one for the car, along with the car registration into my name at last renewal, so that we both have no claims bonus. 

As for Government Gateway, I’ve used this and had no problems. Once it works it beats the delays on the phone lines

Paulmold wrote:

We also don't have passports and Carol doesn't drive therefore no driving license. Has anyone tried to open a bank account in this day and age without those? 

Paul, we decided to open a new bank account. We've lived at the same address for over 30 years and had a mortgage, we have a joint bank account already, passports, joint utility bills, driving licences, we pay tax, get our pensions paid, pay our community charge and have been registered at the same address as voters for the duration. The bank said there was no record of our existence and refused us    It took almost 2 months of wheeling and dealing to get them to agree to take our money.

On the more general topic of future protection, I would suggest it would be wise for couples to investigate getting joint Powers of Attorney.

Askit wrote:On the more general topic of future protection, I would suggest it would be wise for couples to investigate getting joint Powers of Attorney.

Just what our solicitor suggested when we approached her to draw up a will.
I thought it was just a ploy to extract a bigger fee from us, but on investigation it seems a good idea.
Complication now is because we bought our house in the early 80's it's not on the land register, rules were brought in later in the decade apparently.
Al.

bikeralw wrote:

Askit wrote:On the more general topic of future protection, I would suggest it would be wise for couples to investigate getting joint Powers of Attorney.

Just what our solicitor suggested when we approached her to draw up a will.
I thought it was just a ploy to extract a bigger fee from us, but on investigation it seems a good idea.
Complication now is because we bought our house in the early 80's it's not on the land register, rules were brought in later in the decade apparently.
Al.

When we sold our house and took over my mothers house after she died, the house and land was not on the land register. Very simple job to add it, but then they had a local office in Portsmouth, now shut. cannot remember if we had to pay, but I expect we did.
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Richard

Cymro wrote:Franz Kafka was a German novelist whose books include The Trial - describing a person's struggle with tortuous bureaucracy. Hence "Kafkaesque" to describe Subject v. The State. It's an experience to read it (and his other novels) - you really share his anxiety and frustration. Sounds dull, but I assure you it's gripping.

Cymro

Thanks, I did Google it and it still made no sense to thick old me!
Don't read books much, two pages and I fall asleep, latest effort about Bletchley park, where I spent many a week during my GPO training, has so far taken me a year and still only under 1/2 way!
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Richard

rgermain wrote:
Thanks, I did Google it and it still made no sense to thick old me!
Don't read books much, two pages and I fall asleep, latest effort about Bletchley park, where I spent many a week during my GPO training, has so far taken me a year and still only under 1/2 way!
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Richard

Presumably you’ve not read Catch 22 Richard ?  Some parallels: I can’t sign in to a website to get a password because I haven’t got a password to sign in with....