Dealer Pre Delivery Inspection

Molly3 wrote:I sometimes think the only quilaty controller is the customer ?

I agree.  I've made 12 return trips in as many months to have faults dealt with and they weren't cosmetic.  I doubt I would have had the time to do this if I was still at work as my AS and Peugeot dealers are each about an hour away and the AS Service Centre at Willersey 2 hours away.  It takes the enjoyment away of owning a new and expensive motorhome.

Caraman wrote:

Molly3 wrote:I sometimes think the only quilaty controller is the customer ?

I agree.  I've made 12 return trips in as many months to have faults dealt with and they weren't cosmetic.  I doubt I would have had the time to do this if I was still at work as my AS and Peugeot dealers are each about an hour away and the AS Service Centre at Willersey 2 hours away.  It takes the enjoyment away of owning a new and expensive motorhome.

I highlighted this ,that the customer is the QC years ago on this Forum. Nothing has changed.
Maybe it would be best to take an independent engineer when you go to collect  your vehicle.?
I have also wondered if any final inspection team has ever used a motorhome 

Micky

Paulmold wrote:

modelman wrote:The rear wheel-arches have to be removed to get at the rear wheels??

Wow!

To be fair it's only on the Corinium and only those fitted with 16" wheels.    

Should come with free AA cover for the life of the vehicle.
No way you would  be expected to do this yourself.

Micky

mikethebike wrote:


I have also wondered if any final inspection team has ever used a motorhome 

Micky

Staff at the factory (presumably above a certain level) can borrow a motorhome for two weeks so I would hope they report any faults on their return  but whether any comments are acted upon is another matter.

Paulmold wrote:

Staff at the factory (presumably above a certain level) can borrow a motorhome for two weeks so I would hope they report any faults on their return  but whether any comments are acted upon is another matter.

I have heard that one before. If they didn't care about or notice bad workmanship when they built it why should they when they are on a freebie.

Maybe they have a full tool kit with them to screw back bits that fall off, then have a good laugh at tea break about the water leaks on their return with the stories. It really does appear to me to be that bad.

They certainly wouldn't notice that they had fitted the Non Return Valve (NRV) in the wrong position preventing drain down of the boiler, they didn't notice that when they drained it down for storage in the compound. They couldn't understand what I was talking about when I returned the 'van to have it corrected, then the 'engineer' who did the job fitted a new NRV in the correct place and still left the original in the wrong place plus did minor damage and left screw covers off in the process.

Anyone know what qualifications are needed to work at the factory on the build line ?  besides good eyesight.

Micky

mikethebike wrote:Anyone know what qualifications are needed to work at the factory on the build line ?  besides good eyesight.

Micky

 
What that good. A blind person would have made a better job of finishing the woodwork round my under wardrobe drawer. Also have noticed that the cutlery draw doesn't open when the Hab door is closed.

Has anyone ever noticed any duty of care from the Service Center like paper floor mats and seat covers. On my first warranty visit they were in and out with muddy boots all over the carpet. On the second visit I removed the carpets, good thing too, I had two lumps of mastic on the floor, one under my entry mat which had bonded it to the floor covering. Plus greasy hand prints everywhere the 'engineer' had been.

Car manufacturers employ more inspectors than production workers.They use robots were possible.
I think if AS employed ONE inspector to do a visual check of every van before sale it would be a forward step.
Its certain that the dealer PDI is low price operation that depends on the enthusiasm of the person doing the checking.
Of course this applies to all motorhome manufacturers.

Micky

Bernie Wisely wrote:Auto Sleepers claim to have BSI ISO 9001, I was heavily involved in obtaining a 9001 certificate and fail to understand how they got it or even maintain it. Their idea of quality control is pathetic, they say that they will rectify faults under warranty but at your expense (your travel etc is not covered). no two vans are made to a fixed build (required under 9001) and lots of design failures are avoidable if they were 9001 certificated.

I was trained and qualified to get ISO 9000 for my division of East Midlands Electricity, which I duly got. I don't know if things have changed but all it is (was) is a system to check the supply source and chain of components used. If you are manufacturing a product it can be Bull Excrement, and it will satisfy ISO 9000 (if not 9001, I don't know) just so long as you record where the bull was reared, when you bought it, when it came into your factory and when it left. It doesn't have to act as Bull Excrement, the flies could avoid it because it smells nice and isn't decomposing. It would still satisfy ISO 9000. The motorhome can meed all the requirements of the standard and have all the faults listed. I feel for RCBirmingham. I agree it is pretty disgusting. Buy a new one and this is what you get. Buy a used one and it may have been p/exed because of some horrible fault you won't find till you are in Uzbekistan with no phone signal.

I am shortly going to collect a 10 year old German motorhome from a dealer. I will of course have to do my own PDI. I will take it for a test drive and switch all the switches and push all the knobs and buttons, I will check all the gas appliances work, all the electrics and the water system and I will check the tyres, the underside and verify as far as I can that the new MOT is justified.
In 2014 I bought a new Rapido with the usual list of annoying grievances. What I cannot forgive is that whoever plugged an 8 way plug and socket together MUST have seen one of the pins sticking out of the plug body when they pushed the two halves together so there was no way that was making a proper connection. Pins should not stick out from a plug body. He had the plug in one hand and the socket in the other hand and pushed them together. He could not be doing that unless he was looking at the two halves and he could not have failed to notice a pin sticking out. So Rapido's quality control doesn't exist and I will never buy another. It was on an electric bed wiring loom and the main dealer I got it from, in the midlands, failed to find the fault on three return visits so I will never be buying another motorhome from them either.

mikethebike wrote:Car manufacturers employ more inspectors than production workers.They use robots were possible.
I think if AS employed ONE inspector to do a visual check of every van before sale it would be a forward step.
Its certain that the dealer PDI is low price operation that depends on the enthusiasm of the person doing the checking.
Of course this applies to all motorhome manufacturers.

Micky

So having got to double numbers on snagging list, I decided to take the van back to AS to do the repairs. The guy in the service ctr did say it shouldn't have left the factory with the issues I have pointed out, so now he has a full list of defects and will arrange for the van to be picked up from my house and to have all of the work completed. To be fair, I have now started to get really picky, there's a mark on the front of the cooker, normally I would have overlooked this, but given the sheer number of issues, I have also asked for a new cooker and he's agreed. The kitchen cupboards are miss-alingned, so a whole new kitchen please...

This sounds good RCB.

Please let us know the outcome.

Micky

What ever happened to get it right first time ,hope you get your van sorted RCB.
Boaby

Well Rapido don't get it right first time, and a certain main dealer in Newark, the one by the A46 roundabout couldn't get it right in three times of trying leading to solicitor's letter from me.

I make no excuses for poor quality but I wonder if Auto-Sleepers are worse than others?  Compared to my previous caravans, I would say my Nuevo has been put together relatively well.  Compared to my previous caravans, I have had relatively few cosmetic faults.  Most of my Nuevo's faults, which I class as major and I have had quite a few, were attributable to the motorhome's complexity and design and the failure of sub-systems.  They were faults that only became apparent in use and were not the sort that could have been picked up easily on an out inspection.  That said, any fault is usually attributed to human failure somewhere which ISO9000 is supposed to reduce.

I think something that would cure AS quality issues isa system the ‘old’ Brownhills company had. Years ago they would pay your diesel bill if you had to take the van back. AS would learn quickly or go bust

Actually the build quality is generally good. The Fibreglass work is tough and superbly finished, but then a contractor makes that. The Cabinet work is good too, again bought in.
There is definitely some skilled work done in assembly, internal and external. Someone is very good with a mastic gun as far as I can see.

Sticking to the Title of the Topic it is indeed the Quality Control that my van falls down on. It's as if some of the tasks, assembly and fitting including some of the plumbing and electrical are left to the bloke who normally sweeps the floor.

I came to motorhoming from caravanning. The first caravan was a Bailey, a 2005 vintage which was bomb proof, well constructed with zero defects. The second was Lunar which was a complete disaster.My AS Broadway has been almost faultless and I’ve been hugely impressed with the quality of its construction given these are v complex vehicles. I have had 3 new Jaguar/ landrover branded products in the last 10 years and AS compares well. Perhaps there’s an element of luck and environmental factors at play , e.g. where and how it’s stored over winter and the knowledge/expertise of the owner. Of course my positive experience may diminish in my AS ownership journey in future but for now I’m doing quite nicely thankyou!

Yes, Bailey and Lunar were opposites. Years ago I wanted a caravan to live in while contracting around the country and I asked a friend who was a caravan magazine journalist what to buy. He said get a Bailey which I did, and it was faultless. I have recently been looking at new motorhomes and Lunar seems to stand out as being cheap, but built on Renault Master chassis and although allegedly they are the best drivers, they are all 3850kg, and the Lunar interiors don't impress me.

This applies to used motorhomes but I wonder if new ones would pass muster?

https://motorhomenews.me/2020/08/11/racs-new-preparation-standard-means-motorhomes-can-be-sold-by-approved-dealers-for-the-first-time/

roli wrote:I think something that would cure AS quality issues isa system the ‘old’ Brownhills company had. Years ago they would pay your diesel bill if you had to take the van back. AS would learn quickly or go bust

Isn't that exactly what happened to the old Brownhills?

On AS quality, I think we have been reasonably lucky over the years. We've had several since 1996. Some have had one off problems that needed sorting but none have had a catalogues of faults such as have been reported here. I suppose that we have come to accept that there will be some minor problems and therefore as you think back, your view is that generally the vans have been ok.
At least two of the problems on different vans were clearly shoddy workmanship. The first was on a new Clubman Anniversary bought, I think , in 2002. On the first trip in the new van to a CL near Bristol, the shower pipe came adrift behind the fitting but worse was a leak into the wardobe from above; both happened at almost the same time.  I remember being livid, ringing AS service centre and being told that I had to make an appointment. I refused and said, 'We're coming now, on our way back home!'   They did sort both unconnected problems... the leak into the wardrobe was caused by NO sealant around the heater 'chimney'. Coincidentally, the only other leak we had was on a Nuevo many years later where again, there was sealant missing around the aerial fitting on the roof.
On the whole, they've been good vans as long as you don't expect the kind of quality control that you would get on a car.

Peter Brown wrote:Our latest AS van is coming up to nine years old.  We've never lost a days camping as a result of a fault in the conversion but we did lose a trip when the van was three years old when the fuel injectors in the MB engine failed.  Still delighted with a van that ticks all the boxes for us.

I wonder if the quality has decreased and the complexity increased over the years?  In 25 years of caravanning I never had to abort a trip due to equipment failure.  On day 4 of using our Nuevo we had to return home with no water and no Truma and it took Marquis the best part of a month to get us back on the road with a lot of agitation from me.  Although we haven't had to abort since, it was a close thing when we ran out of 10A fuses.  I have a plentiful supply now.  I don't remember any fuses blowing on my caravans.

I think Caraman has hit the nail on the head. I believe quality has decreased and complexity increased over the years.  Also I believe that craftsmen who took a pride in doing a great job have been replaced by relatively unskilled fabricators and a tick-box mentality.

One of the reasons we keep spending money on the Boxer base vehicle on our 2002 Pollensa to keep it running is because the hab conversion used individual switches, fuses, relays, separate electro-mechanical controls and what few circuit boards there are use very basic discrete components. This means there is little interconnection between them, if one thing fails it shouldn't affect other functions. It also means I can maintain and replace using simple tools and the occasional wielding of a soldering iron.

Many of the problems I read about on here with newer vehicles seem to stem from the all-singing, all-dancing complex central electronic control units, which when they go on the blink can mean the loss of all functionality and possible very expensive replacement costs.

Add this to what in my view on the older conversions is considerably superior build quality such as proper wooden cupboards, doors and surfaces, compared to newer vans I have viewed, means that I for one am unlikely to update to a later model as long as the Pollensa keeps going. 

It's interesting how many members here still run models built in the late nineties and early 'noughties' - I wonder how many of today's manufactured models will have such longevity.