Bike rack

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Post by Fantail19 on Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:26 pm

Caraman wrote:The person I communicated with at AS was Dave Williams the Sales Director.  This is what he said:

Thank you for your recent email enquiry submitted via our website regarding 12v connections for use with our Fiamma bike rack fixings and please be advised our Motorhomes are indeed pre wired for rear lighting boards and can be found secured onto the underside of the floor behind the rear panel, which your supplying dealer will be able to assist you with if that is easier than doing so on your own....... please be advised the VLM unit is positioned inside the locker below the cooker on the Nueveo model, with a dedicated socket on this for the 12N socket to plug into which then integrates the running board into the vehicle electrical system.

We are having a few problems with our Nuevo.  Took delivery on 31 May and by 11 Jun is was unusable as the water pump and Combi boiler had packed up.  I spent all of Wednesday at the dealer and will have to go back again to get the water pump replaced.  The EC700 control unit may also need replacing as its internal clock is wildly inaccurate.  The dealer is waiting for the 12N connecting cable and socket to come from AS and hopefully will fit it on my next visit.  There has been no mention of cost. I also have to take the Nuevo to a Peugeot dealer to get the odometer fixed which was flashing when we took delivery of it. 

I was very interested to read this - "our Motorhomes" - so although, I've not yet looked on our new Broadway - I can expect to find something to plug a lighting board into - somewhere underneath the rear end! It might be useful to detail this in the handbook - or at least include it in the features list - as probably the majority of MH's carry bikes at least now and again!

Also of interest was the comment about the internal clock on the control unit. I'm sure I've reset ours a couple of times in the last few weeks (since picking it up) and whilst being retired and my time being my own - I still like to know the correct time - and last week from the clock on the dash, the EC700 control unit, the Truma iNet and my watch - all telling different times - within a range of about ten minutes - I was beginning to feel I was losing the plot!!
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Post by Caraman on Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:27 pm

Fantail - our Marquis dealer has recently received a black box interface for the EC700 which will allow a software refresh.  Our refresh is planned for a week Wednesday which we are hoping will solve it.  It isn't just the clock that is misbehaving.  Some of our advanced settings have been changing.  Advanced settings aren't mentioned in any handbook but can be found by holding down the settings button.  None of this is helped by not having a manual for the AS EC700 configuration.  The Combi was fixed a couple of weeks ago but we had to wait until last Fri to get the Whale pump replaced.  Unfortunately the water system still loses pressure.  I think it might be a leaking hot water tank drain valve which they will look at when they refresh the EC700.  We are off for a short trip tomorrow to test the Nuevo out which starts at the Peugeot dealer for them to sort out the flashing odometer.  I am sure the lighting board will end up being a DIY job.
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Post by burlingtonboaby on Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:40 pm

Hi 
Welcome to the forum from Bridlington 
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Post by Flash on Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:54 pm

Just had a look on ebay & I can have 10 "9 way mate n lok connectors for £7.75.  Cable and plug would add another £15 max. It should be a simple job to find out which wire does what.
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Post by Tinwheeler on Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:07 pm

Bootlace wrote:Hi, I have just taken owner ship of a Peugoet Boxer Fairford and need to fit a bike rack......would welcome advice as to which is the best door mounting make model etc BTW this is on a 19 plate.
Thanks in advance

Marquis fitted a Thule rack to one of the rear doors on ours.

Be aware that the door hinges have a load limit lower than the max load the rack can take. Your handbook should tell you the allowable weight.
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Post by marconi on Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:17 am

Caraman wrote:PO
Marquis has received a section of cable from AS with a small plastic/nylon 9 way 'Mate N Lok' socket at one end to fit into the existing socket on the SARGENT VLM5 LED Road Light & Towing Control unit under the cooker, and a 13 pin socket at the other end to connect to the towing board.  Total cost £123.14 plus labour.  9 way 'Mate N Lok' connectors are cheap and readily available on-line.  A crimping tool is needed to attach the pins to each wire but pliers might also do the trick.  All we need to know is which pin does what.  I am hoping SARGENT will provide this information.  13 pin sockets and plugs are easy to wire.  I have asked AS where they recommend fitting the 13 pin socket on the Nuevo for lighting board use.  The dealer suggested on the underside of the floor beneath the cooker but that would be difficult to use.

Confusion as usual, they say they will send a 7 pin 12N lead and a 13 pin 12S arrives and at an even higher price too.

I have heard from Sargent about the VLM5, they have supplied full fitting instructions as a PDF including the necessary order of plugging in, testing etc. as usual their customer service is superb. Regarding the 13 pin 12S lead this has three connectors on the VLM5 end, it picks up the 12 Volt supply and IGN signal from the original VLM5 power in lead via one socket on the lead and loops it back to the unit on another plug, the third plug goes into the 9pin socket.

I was right on the 9 pins for the cluster functions and a separate earth, the harness has an earth tab which goes to the vehicle chassis underfloor.

They do not give the pin outs for the 9 way 'Mate N Lok' though.
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Post by marconi on Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:57 am

Oh and Sargent say that ideally the bulb version of a Trailer Board may be best because LEDS may bring up errors on the dash of the van.
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Post by burlingtonboaby on Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:59 pm

burlingtonboaby wrote:Hi Flash
Just had a towbar/ball fitted in York (also Thule easy base,back box) I can recommend this wee outfit .  [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
They are located on the A 19 Selby road near the MacArthur Glen shopping plaza (Freeport ), maybe a tad far for you, however they offer a courtesy car and York isn't far away.
Boaby.   (many thanks to Zapot who recommended them to me)
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Post by marconi on Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:12 pm

A little more than 10mins. On my own except for the brake pedal and not as agile as I used to be.

There is one pin which doesn't seem to do anything but all functions are there. Rear/Side and Stop lights I don't know which is left or right, we would find out if a bulb goes and the dash indicates wrongly.

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Post by V on Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:15 pm

Hi Caraman
In our experience -
After fitting our Fiamma bike rack on our 2012 Nuevo (I know your rear lights are different) and putting our bicycles on and the Fiamma cover, we tested visibility by standing back at a distance WE would travel behind our vehicle, we decided the lights and no. plate were not obstructed as to create an issue. as they weren't.
I know your bike rack would be in a different place to ours.
Re. the cover, it fits tight against both bicycle wheels so in use, it doesn't create an issue.
Judging responses of vehicles travelling behind us when I use any lights, I'm content that the lights are not obscured.
We've never been spoken to by police due to obscured lights or no. plate, so all seems legal.
I hope this helps.
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Post by Caslon on Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:02 pm

Just a thought, do you require a buzzer or light on the dash to show the trailer board is fixed, I know when we had the towbar bike rack on and plugged in, a buzzer sounded when we indicated.
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Post by harrysp on Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:52 pm

We have a buzzer when the towbar mounted bike rack is fitted and you indicate, you get used to it, and handy to know when one of the indicators was faulty as it failed to buzz. Not sure if it’s a legal requirement, others will know.

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Post by Flash on Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:31 am

My car doesn't have a buzzer. When I asked about about the legal requirement for a bulb failure warning,  I was told that the cars bulb failure system also included the trailer when fitted. Considering that the dedicated wiring harness alone cost £200, I would expect that & more. I needed the proper harness as it activated the cars towing stability system ( a bit like ABS ).
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Post by marconi on Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:30 am

Flash wrote:My car doesn't have a buzzer. When I asked about about the legal requirement for a bulb failure warning,  I was told that the cars bulb failure system also included the trailer when fitted. Considering that the dedicated wiring harness alone cost £200, I would expect that & more. I needed the proper harness as it activated the cars towing stability system ( a bit like ABS ).

Yes. See my posts above, the Nuevo 2019 has a Sargent rear lighting control system, VLM5, which includes a trailer socket and the wiring loom for the rear lighting has Resistors included because they are LED. Hence when asked which type of Trailer Board to use, Bulbs or LED they replied :-
"Ideally it would be to use a cycle rack with the standard bulbs as LEDS could bring up errors on the dashboard of your van".

The Peugeot will detect Trailer Bulb fails, but may give false readings on an LED one because the CAN Bus system expects Bulb current and LED current is too low. Adding Resistors to each LED bulb would correct this but they would need mounting on a metal heat sink like the ones for the rear lighting. I wonder if some of the much more expensive LED boards are fitted with resistors.
  
So what does the VLM5 do. Well when a trailer or cycle board is initially connected it scans the bulb outputs to see which are connected, a cycle rack does not have a fog light or reversing light so this is remembered and only those in use are monitored for failures. There is memory in there and software which apparently can be updated. If it plays up the first thing to try is the modern universal cure all - turn it off (at the ignition) wait 10 seconds and try again.
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Post by Caraman on Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:59 pm

Marconi - you have done a lot of good work here.  I never actually saw the lighting board cable that AS provided so wasn’t aware it had more than just the 9 way plug at the VLM5 end.  Do you think it is set up to provide a caravan with its supplementary 12 volt supplies which we don’t need for a lighting board?  As you will be aware all the lighting board requires in a single common earth return with up-to 6 positive feeds for a fog lamp if one is fitted (mine has one), LH & RH indicators, LH & RH side/tail/number plate lights and the stop lights. It would be nice to know which is the LH and RH side/tail/number plate light but not essential.  Do you know why Sargent have provided two feeds for the stop lights when for both 12N and 13 pin there is only one wire/pin for the stop lights?
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Post by marconi on Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:20 pm

Caraman wrote:Marconi - you have done a lot of good work here.  I never actually saw the lighting board cable that AS provided so wasn’t aware it had more than just the 9 way plug at the VLM5 end.  Do you think it is set up to provide a caravan with its supplementary 12 volt supplies which we don’t need for a lighting board?  As you will be aware all the lighting board requires in a single common earth return with up-to 6 positive feeds for a fog lamp if one is fitted (mine has one), LH & RH indicators, LH & RH side/tail/number plate lights and the stop lights. It would be nice to know which is the LH and RH side/tail/number plate light but not essential.  Do you know why Sargent have provided two feeds for the stop lights when for both 12N and 13 pin there is only one wire/pin for the stop lights?
Hi Caraman

Today I laid a ruler across the Mate-N-Lok socket and took a 'brass rubbing'. The terminals are 5mm spacing and the shell is 21mm x 21mm. Supplied as two shells, male and female, the pins are sold separately by this supplier (others may be more economical) but they have good details. I am pretty sure these are the ones.

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Mate-N-Lok - Universal Connectors - No. of terminals 9, Face dim. 21 x 21mm - 051304 (each)  £3.77

Yes the extra connectors merely pick up the 12 Volt supplies for the 13 pin Connector, there would ne no need for anything other than the 9 pin connector as the extras would not be used anyway. I haven't yet observed the Earth terminal "under the floor" but it is bound to be there.
I think the two stop light feeds provided could be a mirror of the rear lights with a high level stop light.

I think if we were making our own lead we could save drilling a hole through the floor. I mentioned that I pushed a probe through the existing cable hole, (grommit on the inside mastic underneath) there is adequate room for and un terminated 7 core cable to go through. Plus the Earth core, which would need to be longer than all the others and turned back on itself to terminate under the floor. The cable could then be stripped and terminated in the 12N socket.
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Post by Caraman on Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:18 pm

Thanks Marconi.  This is exactly what I was thinking.  I will see if AS recommend a location to fit the 12N (or 13 pin) socket.  I was wondering if with a small backing plate it could be clamped onto the bracket holding up one of the rear corner steadies.  It should be possible to insert the 12N plug into its socket and remove it by feel rather than sight.  It could be done by sight but that would involve getting your head under the bumper.
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Post by marconi on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:56 pm

The intrepid researchers Caraman and Marconi have dug out some more information.

Using Caraman's data from the table below I have updated my annotated picture of pin outs on the VLM5, the earth return pin has been discovered, all necessary connections for a bike rack are in the 9 pin connector, no need for a separate earth. This makes things easier for cable entry,  just one small round cable to pass through the floor.

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From Caraman :-

TRAILER/LIGHTING BOARD ROAD LIGHTS WIRING OF 9-WAY MATE-N-LOK TRAILER LIGHTS SOCKET ON THE SARGENT VLM5 UNIT WHEN LOOKING AT THE FRONT OF THE SOCKET OR BACK OF THE PLUG.
 
The pin number and colour refer to the 13 pin and 12 N plug/socket and wire.
 

Reversing light* – pin 8 pinkRH side lights – pin 5 brownRH indicator – pin 4 green
Earth – pin 3 whiteStop light** – pin 6 redStop light** – pin 6 red
Fog light – pin 2 blueLH side light – pin 7 blackLH indicator – pin 1 yellow
 
*optional and only of use if the trailer or lighting board has a reversing light.  It is only available now on the 13 pin.  It was available on the largely obsolete 12 S which was used for caravans where it was pin 1 yellow.
 
**either of the two stop lights pins on the 9-way Mate-N-Lok may be connected to the single 6 red pin/wire found on the 13 pin or 12 N plug/socket and cable.
 
It will support either filament or LED bulbs on the trailer/lighting board but the low current consumption of the LED,s can sometimes require some resistors to be added. 
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Post by Caraman on Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:08 pm

Just to close this issue.  I have seen the cable that is made by Sargent to connect to their VLM5 unit beneath the cooker at the back of the motorhome.  Although it is said to be for caravan, trailer and lighting board use I would ague that it is not suitable for lighting board only use.  This is because half the electrical connections on it are for caravan use and therefore redundant and the 13 pin socket provided will only fit onto a towing bracket or on the underside of the floor beneath the cooker locker which is too impractical to use.  The DIY solution is to connect the 7 wire cable for the road lights onto to a 9-way Mate-M-Lok plug at one end as per Marconi's last message and a 12N or 13 pin ‘in-line’ socket at the other end that will cable tie onto the bottom of the bike rack.  The 7 wire cable will pass through the existing hole in the cooker locker floor and loop under the bumper to the bike rack.  My dealer believes this is a pragmatic solution. 
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Post by marconi on Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:27 pm

My Socket installed and working for less than £20.

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