ENGINE BRAKING

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ENGINE BRAKING

Post by schofj on Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:39 am

Her in the 'van tends to use the brakes to slow the 'van whereas I am more likely to change down thru the gears thinking this will save the brakes - so which of us is most correct? John confused3
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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by BobK on Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:02 pm

Wow schofj...... do you know how much a set of brake pads/ shoes cost compared to replacing a complete transmission. confused0

Brakes are for slowing a vehicle and the gearbox is for transmitting the drive from the engine to the road wheels. The only exception would be when descending steep hills where the extra aid from the engine in a low gear would be beneficial in saving your brakes overheating by prolonged application.... but I mean a "steep" hill.

cheers BobK
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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by Paulmold on Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:16 pm

When I learnt to drive, I was taught to use the gears to slow down but I know that today learners are taught to use the brakes for the cost reason BobK states. I have to admit that I hate travelling with my son who learnt to drive using the brakes as he and many like him tend to brake very late. How often do you see a car coming to a junction on your left and brake so late that you think they aren't going to stop which makes you swerve a little to avoid them?
I've never yet in 42 years of driving broken a gearbox and I've driven annual mileages of over 50k per year for the last 15 years.
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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by whisky on Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:17 pm

Hi Schofj.

Really agree with Bobk here. Brakes for braking. Gearbox for driving. Its how all new drivers are taught today and as he said its the cost implications.

Whisky. up!
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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by deckie on Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:06 pm

Oh dear hugegrins ,

I'm of the very old school here, I have always gone down through the gears (again without any gearbox problems), makes the Grandkids laugh though ... but then in the old days (violins out hugegrins ) if you didn't ... simple .... you didn't stop. (especially HGV)
Mirror, Signal, Brake, 'CHANGE' (1962)

Brian

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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by schofj on Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:48 pm


Sounds like advice may have changed over the years - perhaps brakes have come on so much they no longer need saving by engine braking - 'er in the van in the van will be pleased to know she's up with the latest style hairdryer
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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by Tony F on Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:51 pm

Hmmm..

My two penn'orth: Like the other oldies on here I too have always used the gearbox as a speed reduction aid. This might be considered old fashioned and out of date. Why therefore does my 2006 "automatic" Ford Transit do the very same thing, including making all the right noises (ie as if I were double de-clutching)? I know, I know, it's all to do with being in the right gear for the speed you're doing. But doesn't that apply to every vehicle when it's slowing down? It also avoids having to make hurried gear changes when you want to accelerate again. And yes, there have been times when I've changed down then had to change up again immediately because the anticipated braking effect was no longer needed. But that's what gearboxes are for. Just seems common sense to me, brakes and gears together. shrugg

Oh, and like the others, I've never broken a gearbox thanksverymuch .

Tony

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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by deckie on Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:08 pm

Hi Tony,

Double de-clutching ...... Kids and modern HGV (LGV ?) drivers wouldn't have a clue,

Dragged up with Crash Gearbox's, Useless Brakes, Hopeless Power/Weight Ratios, No Power Steering, No Radio, No Aircon, No Sleeper Cab,.......

Grumpy old moan over hugegrins hugegrins

Brian

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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by whisky on Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:23 pm

Nice to see that I'm in with the young set, having checked the ages in the posts. hugegrins Thought Deckie would never admit to that old fashioned way. Still he's young at heart. Bless. lol4
Its what works for you and what you are comfortable with thats important. up!
Oh drat gone of topic again. confused3

Have a good day all. Whisky. wave
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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by deckie on Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:36 pm

whisky wrote:Nice to see that I'm in with the young set, having checked the ages in the posts. hugegrins Thought Deckie would never admit to that old fashioned way. Still he's young at heart. Bless. lol4
Its what works for you and what you are comfortable with thats important. up!
Oh drat gone of topic again. confused3

Have a good day all. Whisky. wave

Nice one Whisky allthumbz

Are you allowed with the 'young set' after 28th Dec ?? lol4 lol4

I'll 'Flag' it for us both goneoff hugegrins

Brian

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engine braking

Post by murph on Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:32 am

Hi all.
Best answer is to lift off the accelerator very early whenever possible and let the vehicle roll a long distance, this produces a huge fuel saving over either braking hard or changing downto slow the vehicle.
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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by boxerman on Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:38 pm

Well I've always used engine braking and will continue to do so, I vividly remember a pinholed brake pipe causing a partial brake failure (split circuit brakes) going down to Robin Hoods Bay, if I had not been in low gear I would have been in the drink!

People aren't taught to drive nowadays - they are taught to pass the test, not the same thing.

Frank
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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by Dutto on Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:31 pm


It's all about rush, rush let's get there yesterday!

ALL aspects of driving have to be considered when looking at "costs" and one of the greatest killers of economical driving is using the brakes!!

On the flat, what is the point of spending all that money on fuel to get up to speed - and then waste it heating up your brake discs or drums when air resistance will do the same job if you think ahead.

In the hills it's a bit different. In the bad old days when we had cable brakes there was always the potential for the cable to part when going DOWN a steep hill; so it was only common sense to select a low gear and use the braking capability of the engine as a "back-up" in case the worse happened.

As far as I know, the hills are just as steep and hydraulic lines fail so it is still the safest way to descend a steep hill: especially as after 49 years of driving I have yet to renew a gearbox or even a clutch!

Best regards,

Dutto drinksallround


Last edited by Dutto on Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Decided that modern teaching methods contribute to the problem!)
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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by Dutto on Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:40 pm

boxerman wrote:People aren't taught to drive nowadays - they are taught to pass the test . .

Agree!

My own "near miss" was in an Austin Devon. On my way home after a night shift with four mates onboard (a bit overloaded I admit) and coming down a hill with a 'T' junction at the bottom. Luckily in second as I wanted to turn left at the 'T' when the brakes failed. We went round the corner on two wheels but made it still on the road and in one piece.

I discovered later that, possibly due to the cold night causing things to shrink, the cable had slipped through the bulldog grips that held it in the right position! Still have a cold feeling up my spine as I type. Rely on brakes? NEVER!

Dutto
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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by squip on Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:49 pm

Dutto
Aaah Austin Devon.
My first car was an old A40 Devon. It had hydraulic front brakes and rod operated rears. But as it was my first car I thought it was the bees knees. f1

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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by Dutto on Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:02 pm

Squip,

I moved up to an A40 van as my first MH (i.e. It had a motor and we treated it as "home" for many weeks and weekends).

If memory serves me correctly, the Devon I owned was a 1937 model. "Discovered" by my Mum (who knew I needed a car) she bought it for me for £15. The head gasket went in the first fifty miles and the brake incident happened about a week after I had replaced the head gasket (along with new piston rings, re-grinding the valves, de-coke etc!).

Ah the joys of motoring in those days. The time when my Dad used to take enough money with him on holiday to replace the engine in the car (£35 for a Morris Gold Seal recon) on the basis that Derbyshire to Devon and return was .... well it was better safe than sorry. allthumbz

Best regards (are we off topic again?)

Dutto drinksallround
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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by deckie on Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:07 pm

deckie wrote:Hi Tony,

Double de-clutching ...... Kids and modern HGV (LGV ?) drivers wouldn't have a clue,
Dragged up with Crash Gearbox's, Useless Brakes, Hopeless Power/Weight Ratios, No Power Steering, No Radio, No Aircon, No Sleeper Cab,.......
Grumpy old moan over hugegrins hugegrins

Brian

Just quoting myself here as something has just crossed my mind, (grey matter a bit murky)

Do all the old hands remember ... Heal & toe and a one two three (sounds like a dance step now hugegrins )

For the youngsters (are you in there Whisky smile! )

We use to press the brake with our toe and flick the throttle with our heal whilst double de-clutching down through the 'crash' gearbox.

Don't think the old rheumatics would allow it now hugegrins hugegrins

Brian

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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by squip on Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:12 pm

Brian,
I certainly remember the old method of heel and toe gear changing. I started using it in my rally driving days and I still use it now although it is not strictly heel and toe. Rather it is heel and outer edge of foot. It enables one to change down a gear by matching the engine revs whilst using the brakes.

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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by squip on Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:38 pm

Dutto wrote:Squip,

Ah the joys of motoring in those days. The time when my Dad used to take enough money with him on holiday to replace the engine in the car (£35 for a Morris Gold Seal recon) on the basis that Derbyshire to Devon and return was .... well it was better safe than sorry. allthumbz


Dutto drinksallround

£35 !!! your dad must have been rich hugegrins

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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by TeamRienza on Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:45 pm

Hi all,

I like to be in the right gear for the speed I am doing as it allows me to react more quickly especially as you approach a give way junction, just press pedal A and away you go etc.

Against this i have heard that modern gear boxes are not as robust as in the past and less likely to accept this form of driving. Have to agree with the read the road and use windage to slow style.

Two other points to confuse the issue.

Steep hill. prolonged braking. heat fade on brakes.

Brake fluid is hydroscopic (think that is the right term) which means it absorbs moisture and when subjected to prolonged braking could boil the water with consequent loss of brakes. We are supposed to replace the fluid every few years because of this, but how many of us do?

all the best,

Davy
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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by BobK on Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:25 pm

TeamRienza wrote:Hi all,

I like to be in the right gear for the speed I am doing as it allows me to react more quickly especially as you approach a give way junction, just press pedal A and away you go etc.

Against this i have heard that modern gear boxes are not as robust as in the past and less likely to accept this form of driving. Have to agree with the read the road and use windage to slow style.

Two other points to confuse the issue.

Steep hill. prolonged braking. heat fade on brakes.

Brake fluid is hydroscopic (think that is the right term) which means it absorbs moisture and when subjected to prolonged braking could boil the water with consequent loss of brakes. We are supposed to replace the fluid every few years because of this, but how many of us do?

all the best,

Davy


Agree... Davy ..... read the road, slow early and assess, brake if necessary and then select the correct gear.
My earlier post about comparing brake replacement with transmission replacement is probably not so prevalent now with modern boxes, but I do notice that our Streetka, now nudging seventy thousand miles is slightly noisy in the intermediate gears, having been driven by one who comes down thru' the gears at every roundabout and then back up again. (still nowhere near "broken")!!

Also your points about brake fade ... I have experienced this on long steep descents and do use a low gear and intermittent braking. It has been at the back of my mind to change the fluid to see if that helps. Always felt that the brakes on the Rienza were not quite adequate.

Are we the only two Rienza owners on the forum. Really like them.

regards Bob
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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by deckie on Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:35 am

Brian[/quote]

Just quoting myself here as something has just crossed my mind, (grey matter a bit murky)

Do all the old hands remember ... Heal & toe and a one two three (sounds like a dance step now hugegrins )

For the youngsters (are you in there Whisky smile! )

We use to press the brake with our toe and flick the throttle with our heal whilst double de-clutching down through the 'crash' gearbox.

Don't think the old rheumatics would allow it now hugegrins hugegrins

Brian[/quote]

Had overnight to think (stir-up hugegrins )

Today's HGV Drivers are a load of Wimps ..... Even our Local Dustcarts have 'Keypad' Auto-Boxes fitted !!

We were 'Men' ...... Ate .... Steel Girders for breakfast and spat out Iron Fileings lol4

Not telling them my name ....

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Thanks for all your comments

Post by schofj on Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:43 am

As is often the case the best way seems to lie down the middle - mixture of brakes and gears - I think I've definately erred on the side of engine braking.
Another point , I dont think anyone has mentioned , is that using the brakes rather than gears activates the brake lights - quite useful for following traffic content
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Re: Engine Braking.

Post by whisky on Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:17 am

Ha Ha, Heel Toe, Heel Toe, Away we go One Two Three. Even though the brake and throttle are on the same handle bar. Can't get me foot up there without falling of me bike Deckie. hugegrins
Yes well I must have had an old instructor. Mirror Indicate Manover and all that . Wern't you was it. He did move South some where. lol4
Cheers Whisky. snigger
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Re: ENGINE BRAKING

Post by deckie on Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:12 pm

whisky wrote:Ha Ha, Heel Toe, Heel Toe, Away we go One Two Three. Even though the brake and throttle are on the same handle bar. Can't get me foot up there without falling of me bike Deckie. hugegrins
Yes well I must have had an old instructor. Mirror Indicate Manover and all that . Wern't you was it. He did move South some where. lol4
Cheers Whisky. snigger

Nice one Whisky allthumbz

And i thought you were 'Ambidextrous' (ambifooted) your'll have to lower your handlebar hugegrins

Right, Here we go then .... Heel toe, Heel toe ... they're coming to take me away Ho Ho ... Heel toe, Heel toe ...they're ........ "come on louder at the back" ....... Heel toe ......

Brian

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