The Auto-Sleeper Motorhome Owners Forum (ASOF)
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Hot water + drainage issues

+5
Richard G
rogerblack
inspiredron
FreelanderUK
Poppythepeugot
9 posters

Go down

Hot water + drainage issues  Empty Hot water + drainage issues

Post by Poppythepeugot Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:01 am

These two issues may or may not be connected.

A) I have slowly lost pressure in my hot water tap in the kitchen area, to the point that I can turn my tap all the way on and nothing at all happens. I cannot even hear or feel the pump priming to do anything. I left it on for half an hour last night but still nothing. I tested the hot water tap in the bathroom and this works absolutely fine 

B) I had noticed water in the bottom of my bathroom even when I haven't showered in there. Last night, when draining the kitchen sink, I noticed that it was bubbling up out of the bathroom drain ( the one nearest the door). I have recently tried to clean out my kitchen drain pipe with a solution of vinegar and baking soda, but this issue has clearly been going on a while - I just hadn't connected the two until last night)

Can anyone help me with either issue? ( The hot water being the most important obviously) 

As a bit of background - I live in the van most of the time, but haven't been in for 2 weeks during which time the hot water tap pressure disappeared completely. It has been / is also very cold with regular below freezing temperatures.the cold water tap in the kitchen works fine.
Poppythepeugot
Poppythepeugot
Member
Member

Female

Posts : 16
Joined : 2021-07-11
Location : Everywhere
Auto-Sleeper : Pollensa
Vehicle Year : 2001

Back to top Go down

Hot water + drainage issues  Empty Re: Hot water + drainage issues

Post by FreelanderUK Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:22 am

It’s possible that your fresh water tank is frozen solid with this cold spell that we have had but then your cold water tap would not work , could be the boiler tank is frozen

_________________
Chris
FreelanderUK
FreelanderUK
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 1710
Joined : 2020-07-18
Location : Lincolnshire
Auto-Sleeper : Warwick XL
Vehicle Year : 2016

BobK likes this post

Back to top Go down

Hot water + drainage issues  Empty Re: Hot water + drainage issues

Post by inspiredron Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:47 am

Probably not connected other than through cold weather. My guess is that the waste tank is full, perhaps the outlet is frozen. It could also be that the inlet to the waste tank is frozen so the kitchen waste can only escape into the shower. For the hot water, the ceramic cartridge may have frozen and broken or the washer may be frozen to it's seating.
In both cases it seems that the van has got too cold allowing freeze-up of vital parts.

_________________
Best wishes - Ron
inspiredron
inspiredron
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 3217
Joined : 2012-06-02
Member Age : 81
Location : Ellesmere, Shropshire
Auto-Sleeper : Lancashire
Vehicle Year : 2012

gassygassy likes this post

Back to top Go down

Hot water + drainage issues  Empty Re: Hot water + drainage issues

Post by rogerblack Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:57 am

A.  Chances are one of the pipes between the tank and the kitchen has frozen, whereas that to the bathroom hasn't, probably because it's nearer and mainly in the warm part near the heater.

B. This is exactly what happens to us when the waste tank gets full. If you have tried emptying it and nothing is coming out, chances are the pipe by the valve cock has frozen, or even the water in the waste tank.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
cheers
Roger
rogerblack
rogerblack
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 2795
Joined : 2012-09-22
Member Age : 67
Location : East Neuk, Fife / Berkshire
Auto-Sleeper : Pollensa/Boxer2.8HDi
Vehicle Year : 2002

Back to top Go down

Hot water + drainage issues  Empty Re: Hot water + drainage issues

Post by Richard G Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:24 pm

It may be a basic question from a person of my experience but

How can i use my heating etc in my 2021 Broadway EL as it has now auto drained the boiler and cannot reset as its still cold . Even if i do reset and heating works how can i prevent it dumping again when i am driving? Presumably best keep heating on all the time when parked up.

Away this weekend, will take my Bedsocks!

Vehicle is supposedly with Winter Pack option. Not really very effective.
Richard G
Richard G
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 183
Joined : 2019-02-10
Location : Banbury
Auto-Sleeper : Broadway EL
Vehicle Year : 2021

gassygassy likes this post

Back to top Go down

Hot water + drainage issues  Empty Re: Hot water + drainage issues

Post by Cymro Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:22 pm

The 2015 version of the Truma in my Nuevo is designed to run the space heating whether or not there's water in the boiler.
Cymro
Cymro
Cymro
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 3219
Joined : 2011-06-05
Location : Caerdydd - Cardiff
Auto-Sleeper : Nuevo ES
Vehicle Year : 2015

IanH likes this post

Back to top Go down

Hot water + drainage issues  Empty Re: Hot water + drainage issues

Post by Caraman Fri Dec 16, 2022 8:21 am

Richard G wrote:It may be a basic question from a person of my experience but

How can i use my heating etc in my 2021 Broadway EL as it has now auto drained the boiler and cannot reset as its still cold . Even if i do reset and heating works how can i prevent it dumping again when i am driving? Presumably best keep heating on all the time when parked up.

Away this weekend, will take my Bedsocks!

Vehicle is supposedly with Winter Pack option. Not really very effective.
I agree with Cymro.  You don't need the HW tank to be full of water to run the heating.  I don't fill/prime the water system until I arrive at a site by which time the cab heater and sun (if there is any) is often sufficient in cold weather to raise the temp around the Truma frost valve so that it will stay shut.  If not, I put the Truma heater on as soon as I arrive at the site and that cures it in minutes if the valve is exposed.  It is possible to run the Truma heating whilst the van is being driven but so far I haven't done that.  It wouldn't bother me if the Truma valve dumped the water whilst driving.  I always carry a small water container in the van so we can have a brew etc en route.  As a precaution on site we turn the water pump off at the EC700 CP when we leave the van.  Even though we leave the heating on low when we leave the van there is a risk that the heating will fail whilst we are away or there is a power outage causing the Tuma valve temperature to drop and then open.  In these circumstance I don't want the pump to come on and empty the fresh water tank and eventually burn out.

I don't know if you have a Shurflo pump.  I do and a few months after it was fitted it did the unthinkable and failed.  It was very cold at the time and whilst the temperature had risen sufficiently to shut the Truma valve, the thermal mass of the pump may have meant it was still frozen.  This is just my theory but when I turned the pump on nothing happened.  When it was replaced under warranty the technician doubted this was the cause of the failure.  However, I now take care to ensure the pump is above freezing before I use it.
Caraman
Caraman
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 2300
Joined : 2019-04-19
Location : SALISBURY
Auto-Sleeper : Nuevo
Vehicle Year : 2019

Back to top Go down

Hot water + drainage issues  Empty Re: Hot water + drainage issues

Post by IanH Fri Dec 16, 2022 8:50 am

From memory, from my Warwick days, as Cymro says the space heating can be run with the water heater tank empty.
The tank dump valves, again from memory opens to dump at +3c and can be closed again above +7c.
As the air and water heaters are co located running the air heating easily heats up the area around the dump valve to more than 7c.
If you are living in the van and, presumably have some form of heating, even an electric heater plugged into EHU mains, it is very unlikely indeed that the internal ambient temp will get below 3c. If at home, then you should manually drain the water heater anyway with the manual valve and close it again when next filling the water tank.....
IanH
IanH
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 5123
Joined : 2020-05-04
Location : NORTH WALSHAM
Auto-Sleeper : AS Executive
Vehicle Year : 2002

Back to top Go down

Hot water + drainage issues  Empty Re: Hot water + drainage issues

Post by Cymro Fri Dec 16, 2022 9:57 pm

Caravan (above) used the phrase "... If the valve is exposed."

That's significant: if the dump valve - fixed to the uninsulated floor - is not exposed to the room heat within the van (for example if the valve is covered by a box or clobber etc) it will be cold. It will dump the water.

You can buy a supplementary heating element for the valve. Or ensure that some heat can get to the valve. There is a corrugated heating pipe running near mine. I made a small hole in mine. That's enough to keep the underseat area warm enough to stop the valve from opening. I built a box around the valve so that I can store things above it - but put large holes in its side so that the warm air can reach the valve.

So far, so good.

Cymro
Cymro
Cymro
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 3219
Joined : 2011-06-05
Location : Caerdydd - Cardiff
Auto-Sleeper : Nuevo ES
Vehicle Year : 2015

Back to top Go down

Hot water + drainage issues  Empty Re: Hot water + drainage issues

Post by Paulmold Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:20 pm

For the last few days I've put a radiator in the van on a low setting just to keep temp above freezing. I checked in the daytime and a temperature probe showed the lounge area to be 6° but putting the probe into the combi area showed -1.6. I lifted the bed so the air from the lounge would circulate into the combi area. Temp checked later, lounge 3° and combi area -2. The draught coming up through the gas drop vents was unbelievable.  One of these drop vents is right next to the dump valve, thankfully my dump valve is manual not automatic so the theory of normal heating keeping the dump valve from dumping water may not be sufficient.


Last edited by Paulmold on Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
"Tomorrow will be a good day"
Paulmold
Paulmold
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 23208
Joined : 2011-02-21
Member Age : 71
Location : North East Wales
Auto-Sleeper : Sussex Duo
Vehicle Year : 2010

Back to top Go down

Hot water + drainage issues  Empty Re: Hot water + drainage issues

Post by inspiredron Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:27 pm

The OP has a 2001 van. IMHO unlikely that he has an automatic dump valve. I cannot run Truma on my 2012 van with 2 knobs to control the Combi 4e (not the digital control) I cannot use the Truma unless the control panel is on - which it isn't it the engine is running. Nor can I use the EC328's timer to switch the heating on.

_________________
Best wishes - Ron
inspiredron
inspiredron
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 3217
Joined : 2012-06-02
Member Age : 81
Location : Ellesmere, Shropshire
Auto-Sleeper : Lancashire
Vehicle Year : 2012

Back to top Go down

Hot water + drainage issues  Empty Re: Hot water + drainage issues

Post by Caraman Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:51 pm

inspiredron wrote:The OP has a 2001 van. IMHO unlikely that he has an automatic dump valve. I cannot run Truma on my 2012 van with 2 knobs to control the Combi 4e (not the digital control) I cannot use the Truma unless the control panel is on - which it isn't it the engine is running. Nor can I use the EC328's timer to switch the heating on.
Comments about the Truma frost valve related to Richard G's query rather than the OP's.  Interesting observation from Paul.  On my Nuevo there is no gas drop hole in the under seat locker where the Truma frost valve is located.  That said, if the seat isn't lifted and our Duvaleys moved to expose the Truma valve, it takes longer to warm the valve up.  Once it has warmed up and the HW tank filled, sufficient heat finds its way down the HW pipe to the Truma valve to prevent it from tripping, providing the heating is on.  The coldest temperatures are at night when the Duvaleys aren't in the locker which helps heat circulate around the locker from the heating duct that passes through it.  When its cold my wife likes to take the Duvaleys out of the locker an hour or so before they are needed so that they warm up at bit which also helps.
Caraman
Caraman
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 2300
Joined : 2019-04-19
Location : SALISBURY
Auto-Sleeper : Nuevo
Vehicle Year : 2019

Back to top Go down

Hot water + drainage issues  Empty Re: Hot water + drainage issues

Post by Richard G Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:21 pm

I have read the Truma instructions and it does say that heating does not need water in Boiler.

Problem seems to be the Dump sensor is in a cold place and cannot be kept warm, as Paulmold states.
My dump valve is not resettable when its still cold or up to 7 degrees. Is there a ready made heater for the valve....might be easy to put in a small element around the valve to use when van is in use, like i am over Christmas.
Richard G
Richard G
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 183
Joined : 2019-02-10
Location : Banbury
Auto-Sleeper : Broadway EL
Vehicle Year : 2021

Back to top Go down

Hot water + drainage issues  Empty Re: Hot water + drainage issues

Post by Caraman Sat Dec 17, 2022 8:21 am

Page 19 of the Combi(E) instruction states:

"Truma supplies a heating element (part no. 70070-01) as an accessory, which is plugged into the FrostControl and fixed in place with a retaining bracket.  This heating element heats the FrostControl to approx. 10 degrees C when the Combi is switched On.  This means that the boiler can be filled sooner, irrespective of the temperature in the installation compartment."

Cymro referred to this in an earlier post.  I have no experience of it.  I would have thought the same effect could be achieved if needed by using a hair drier.  Following the advice also given on page 19 works for me:

"When the temperature at the FrostControl is below approx. 7 degrees C, first switch on the heater to warm the installation compartment and FrostControl.  After several minutes, when the temperature at FrostControl is above 7 degrees C, the safety/drain valve can be closed."

The Combi(E) instruction doesn't say this but I am reasonably confident that once the HW tank is full, heat from the tank is sufficient to stop the valve temperature dropping below 3 degrees.  The pipe length between the valve and the HW tank is short by design.  That said, it would be shorter still if the Combi had been mounted the right way around by A-S.

The temperature is forecast to rise quite markedly tomorrow and it doesn't look as though Christmas is going to be a cold one so I don't think you need to worry about this.
Caraman
Caraman
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 2300
Joined : 2019-04-19
Location : SALISBURY
Auto-Sleeper : Nuevo
Vehicle Year : 2019

Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum