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Clean Air Zones

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gassygassy
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Clean Air Zones Empty Clean Air Zones

Post by Phil Bowen Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:59 pm

Hi All, just had a letter from Clean Air Bristol informing me that they will be introducing a Clean Air Zone on 28th November. As my Auto-Sleeper Burford according to the DVLA is over 3.5t and first registered in 2013 I am to be classed as a Heavy Goods Vechile so having to pay £100 every time I enter the Clean Air Zones. I have a motorhome which I don't think should be classified as a Heavy Goods Vechile but a Light Goods Vehicle so paying £9.00 each time, which I am quite happy to pay. Why when I only do under 5,000miles per year and in Bristol will be the Clean Air Zone for just 10 minutes should I pay £100. I don't think my van is with this usage contributing greatly to air pollution. Have any of you challenged this in other zones? I call in Bristol regularly to see family and would be gutted if had to stop or buy a new van.
Regards
Phil
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Post by rgermain Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:19 pm

Just checked our van, came back at £9 and free in Portsmouth where we might use it.

Our son and family live in Bristol, but I see the zone is quite small and around the dock area and up to Clifton, so if we take the van will be ok. Noticed Bath also, so will stick to to the M32/M4 when in the van from now on. Think Baltic Wharf is closing soon.

Thanks for the info.
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Post by IanH Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:58 pm

I have a policy of never visiting places with so called clean air zones, not just in UK but Europe too, Arnhem as an example...
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Post by rgermain Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:02 pm

IanH wrote:I have a policy of never visiting places with so called clean air zones, not just in UK but Europe too, Arnhem as an example...
Us also, not been in one yet. You just have to make a diversion, like looking for LPG hugegrins
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Post by Cymro Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:23 pm

I believe that motorhomes with a Maximum Technically Permitted Laden Mass (MTPLM) of up to 3,500kg are classed - for Excise Duty - as Private Light Goods; those over 3,500 are Private Heavy Goods Vehicles.

Now the problem with Bristol's Clean Air Zone is that,  as far as I can see, it doesn't recognise a category of vehicle called a Private HGV.  An ordinary HGV (say an artic) which has a EURO VI engine is exempt. But that's a category of engine different from a Euro 6 engine [the capital letters and Roman numerals differentiate.]

I'd (a) check what my V5C describes my motorhome as, for tax purpose (Is it PLG, like my Nuevo, or is it Private HGV?)  and, assuming that the Burford is the latter, I'd (2) write to Bristol with a copy of the V5C to confirm that as a PHGV [not a HGV] which has a Euro 5 (or whatever your engine is) diesel engine, it should be charged the daily rate of £9.00

I stayed at Bristol Baltic Wharf last week, before the CAZ comes into effect. The site is closing in December.

If you do write to Bristol, please share the answer with the Forum.

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Post by Phil Bowen Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:36 pm

I have been given an email  address for a person who might help, but it seems a bit chaotic there. I was given a phone number by a guy in London for the Bristol office and number was not recognised.Thanks Cymro will check my V5C details. I don't think it will shut in December too many problems for the flats to go ahead.
Regards
Phil
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Post by PLOUGHLIN Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:48 pm

Phil Bowen wrote:I have been given an email  address for a person who might help, but it seems a bit chaotic there. I was given a phone number by a guy in London for the Bristol office and number was not recognised.Thanks Cymro will check my V5C details. I don't think it will shut in December too many problems for the flats to go ahead.
Regards
Phil

No bookings available after 18 Dec, so currently on schedule to close.

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Post by FreelanderUK Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:57 pm

My WXL has been up plated  to 4800kg and on the reg checker for clean air zones [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  comes back as

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Post by Peter Brown Thu Nov 10, 2022 6:06 pm

Result for my Malvern:

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Clean Air Zones Empty New generation Malvern results.

Post by pagetheoracle Thu Nov 10, 2022 8:52 pm

I’ve got the new generation (22)Mercedes Malvern. Used the Crystal Palace (London for Queens Jubilee) site in the summer where there was no charge. My results are as per the photo.
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Post by Phil Bowen Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:08 pm

Thanks for your replies, nothing yet from Bristol and my V5 does state Private HGV which I will use hopefully to move my motorhome from Heavy to Light Goods. Those of you who are not being charged have motorhomes younger than mine so your engines satisfy the requirements of the zones. Will keep you up to date if and when Bristol reply. I know there is a time limit on Baltic Wharf but we have family in Bristol and its ideal for them. Talking to the staff yesterday there are no plans in place for a replacement site.
Thanks again
Phil
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Post by Mike23 Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:01 pm

Hi, I don't know if it applies to your M/H, but my daughter's over 3-5ton Hymer ((20 yrs old) A Class is classed  as HGV by DVLA for VED. It is "old school diesel" no CAT etc and approx 23 mpg. However the VED is low. My neighbour has a diesel VW T6 campervan,  Euro 6 with AddBlue etc, 40 mpg +, No prizes for guessing who pays the most VED, in actual fact over twice as much.
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Post by HCAFC Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:17 pm

I'm guessing, like me  many MH owners a) have an older van and b) are members of CAMC.
So what has the club,  supposedly run on behalf of its members, done to have older MHs exempted from Clean Air Zones? As far as I can tell, nothing and if they have done something, it's been incredibly ineffective.
Is it simply a case, once again, of if you can afford it its avoidable and if you can't then you have to pay? Seems the wrong way round somehow.
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Post by gassygassy Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:27 pm

The whole Clean Air Zone business (more correctly called 'Another-way-for-city-councils-to-expand-themselves-and-promote-managers-and-collect-more-money-zones) really annoys me. I suspected, and was proved right when London introduced a 'Congestion Charge' which was specifically "to reduce the congestion of traffic by discouraging use of vehicles'. The one and only result is an increase in London City Council revenue. Traffic has not reduced in the slightest whereas everything within the zone had to increase in price to reflect the charges.
The rest of Europe has a sensible idea: each country issues a coloured disc for your vehicle that you stick in the windscreen and shows what pollution you are. They cover the whole country. So in Germany we saw that most cars had a green sticker, the same as ours and it allowed us everywhere we went. Our sticker for France is the same, it tells anyone who wants to know that we are Euro 4.
Furthermore, if you go to Germany you can buy what is called "A 9 Euro Ticket". This ticket surprisingly costs 9 Euros, and it allows unlimited travel on any train other than inter-city express trains, any bus, any tram, any time of any day for a period of a month. What a fantastic way to reduce pollution! However it doesn't increase the local council staff or their income so it wouldn't work here. Also, in the whole Dunkirk area, all buses are free all day and all week and have been since 2017. If this country had any actual interest in reducing pollution whilst allowing people to move around it would do well to look across the channel.
Personally I have given up on motorhoming in the UK, I am sorry but £35 a night camp sites can't compete with free aires in France or free stellplatz in Germany, and the Lake District whether its a chargeable zone of some sort or not, doesn't hold a candle to the free Alps.
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Clean Air Zones Empty Davidcs

Post by davidcs Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:41 pm

They is plenty of places in this country to explore with out going to these cities my wife died to months ago and she loved Bristol she was brought up in Bristol but I think Bristol as lost it’s draw for me over the years I think my time in Bristol seem to be over
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Post by groundhog Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:50 pm

David, so sorry to read of your sad loss, my condolences.

Someone needs to take the whole taxation system in the UK and kick it in the bin when it comes to transportation ( and other things but lets not go there). My Mercedes car and van similar engines, the car is euro4 and the van is euro5, the car gets in to Bristol free the van costs £100. Nonsense.
Yet the road tax on the car is more than the van? In Bath I can take the motorhome or a horsebox into the zone with a discount from £100 down to £9 but have to fill out a load of forms and apply for a permit first. What kind of bullshine is that, still guess it keeps some more pen pushers employed.

No wonder so many of us go to Europe wher things are sooooo simple!
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Post by davidcs Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:21 pm

I will keep out of city’s as long as this system carry’s on it will be no loss to me. This country does not encourage anyone to enjoy themselves with a motorhome
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Post by davidcs Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:29 pm

groundhog wrote:David, so sorry to read of your sad loss, my condolences.

Someone needs to take the whole taxation system in the UK and kick it in the bin when it comes to transportation ( and other things but lets not go there). My Mercedes car and van similar engines, the car is euro4 and the van is euro5, the car gets in to Bristol free the van costs £100. Nonsense.
Yet the road tax on the car is more than the van? In Bath I can take the motorhome or a horsebox into the zone with a discount from £100 down to £9 but have to fill out a load of forms and apply for a permit first. What kind of bullshine is that, still guess it keeps some more pen pushers employed.

No wonder so many of us go to Europe wher things are sooooo simple!
Thanks groundhog it really hurts at the moment I don’t know how I will enjoy motorhoming in the future
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Post by gassygassy Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:25 pm

David, if you want me to I can put you in touch with another motorhomer guy I know who is in a similar situation. He is continuing to use and enjoy the motorhome they had together, although he has removed the disability aids he fitted.
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Post by davidcs Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:41 pm

Thanks gassygassy it will never be the same with out her but I have got to find the answers my self in the coming months
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Post by gassygassy Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:56 pm

For our 50th wedding anniversary I wrote my wife a poem, thinking about what it would be like if she had gone when she had a heart attack:
I could copy it here, but this is about clean air zones so it's not appropriate.

Thinking of you I have posted it in the general discussions lounge area
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Post by Phil Bowen Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:55 am

Hi All, I have heard from Bath City Council that they have introduced an exemption for motorhomes and horse boxes. It means you pay just £9.00 to enter their Clean Air Zone. You go onto the Bath County Council website and follow the link to exemptions for motorhomes. It directs you to mipermit.com and here you have to apply for an exemption permit which costs nothing and lasts a year. You have to submit photos of your motorhome sides, front and rear, plus a photo of your V5 showing that you are a private HGV. I have already contacted Bristol saying Bath have set a precedent by doing this when are they going to follow suit. My query has been passed to senior management!!! Am going to contact Caravan Club and see if the could get support nationally for this exemption. You still have to apply to go into the zone each time and give up to 6 days notice. Progress!!
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Post by Dave Gee Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:28 pm

Just checked - DVLA have my WarwickXL listed as a motorhome PLG and I got the same results as Freelander, no charge for me (at least - at the moment)

Glasgow has just recently put a Low Emission Zone in place - you can check here if you are going to Glasgow

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Last edited by Dave Gee on Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added link)
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Post by IanH Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:51 pm

We have a simple policy. Transmitted to any such council.
We never go anywhere with an LEZ. We also make appropriate council aware that not only will we not visit their town nor will we spend any money there.
Whether that is understood by such people is irrelevant.
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Post by Thebeeman Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:53 pm

Sheffield’s clean air tax starts 28th February, 2023.
Basically includes inner ring road and area inside it.
Includes “Light goods vehicles such as vans, pickup trucks, minibuses and camper vans”
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