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Are we all committing an offence?

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Are we all committing an offence? Empty Are we all committing an offence?

Post by bikeralw Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:00 pm

Since I was told by a police officer friend that I was committing an offence because I carry a multi-tool with a locking blade when out in the van or car, I thought I'd look up the legalities.
I came across this, I didn't know the inside of our vehicles is a public place...
Al.

It is ILLEGAL to have any sharply pointed or bladed instrument in your possession, in a public place without good reason or lawful authority. Your car or other vehicle is also classed as a public place whilst on the highway, and the police now have search and seize powers without warrant with respect to knives.
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Post by Paulmold Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:09 pm

Are the knifes in the cutlery drawer classed as good reason because you need them to eat? I carry a Stanley knife in my toolkit.

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Post by Bilbobaggins Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:33 pm

Surely multitool in a Moho as part of the tool kit is good reason. I carry two sharpened chefs. Knifes in the van that would be far more lethal than a multi tool

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Post by Suppersready Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:38 pm

I carry two Gransfors Bruk axe’s of different sizes and several filleting knives, all of which are extremely sharp. All are essential items to me, both stored in the van and I suppose are technically in a public place when outside.
Maybe I should make some enquiries ….



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Post by Kdc Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:46 pm

I think the term…..”without good reason” is the key statement.
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Post by babian Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:13 pm

Only when an offence has been committed...surely?
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Post by PLOUGHLIN Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:28 pm

babian wrote:Only when an offence has been committed...surely?

Carrying/possessing it in a public place is a de facto offence, a defence to the offence is " a good reason"

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Post by burlingtonboaby Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:09 am

Better lock me up now then !  We carry multi-tools and Swiss Army knives in both vehicles,all put away and not on display.
Have a nice day.
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Post by PLOUGHLIN Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:22 am

burlingtonboaby wrote:Better lock me up now then !  We carry multi-tools and Swiss Army knives in both vehicles,all put away and not on display.
Have a nice day.
Boaby

It is a stupid law introduced in 1988, a knee jerk reaction to a specific problem in some parts of society just like the Dangerous Dogs Act, but it is the Law.

Criminal Justice Act 1988 section 139.

"139 Offence of having article with blade or point in public place

(1)Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

(2)Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

(3)This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

(4)It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

(5)Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—

(a)for use at work;

(b)for religious reasons; or

(c)as part of any national costume.

(6)A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

(7)In this section “public place” includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise.

(8)This section shall not have effect in relation to anything done before it comes into force. "

This Guy explains in detail about a Multi tool.

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Post by bikeralw Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:29 am

The one and only time I've been asked if I was carrying knives was by border force at Newhaven. When I said yes, the lady did request to inspect my cutlery drawer.. However my Swiss Army multi tool was in my pocket. My police friend assured me that because of it's locking blade it would have been confiscated if they'd seen it.
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Post by rogerblack Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:15 am

"(c)as part of any national costume."

Still OK with the sgian dubh tucked in my sock when I wear the kilt - albeit somewhat rarely these days as despite what some seem to think, it does not suit the "fuller figure"!

I went through a period in my younger days when I wore the kilt regularly. I once had my sgian dubh confiscated on boarding an aeroplane - they said they'd keep it in the cockpit for safety and let me have it back when I was disembarking. Those were the days when the cockpit was open and in fact you could request to visit. On that flight, the captain (who happened to be a fellow Scot) sent an invitation to me via a steward to come up during the flight!  
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Post by breakaleg Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:27 am

I don't know about you, but We always seem to be stopped by customs when leaving the country.
We were asked the one time if we had any Knives in the van, I said yes and got a hard stare, I said I have to use some to eat my dinner.

He didn't check the draw but sent us on our way.

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Post by gemdeco Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:59 pm

Hi
      I run 2 historic military vehicles both have axes as part of their tool kit, nobody takes any notice.
 Alan
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Post by inspiredron Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:07 pm

On one occasion we were pulled over into the customs shed on the way to the departure check-in at Dover. The nice man asked several questions the last of which was "Do you have any sharp knives?"  My wife responded in a very caustic tone "Of course we do - we are living in here for a month" while I slipped quietly down my seat trying to hide under the steering column. The poor man, suitably chastened, immediately waved us on toward check-in. 😀😀👍

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Post by Quilter Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:39 am

We usually get pulled over for a check at Portsmouth. The last two times however we noticed that the “Have you got any knives ?” question has been relaced with “Have you got any knives, other than kitchen knives ?”. 

It never occurred to us to declare my OH’s Swiss Army knife until I read this post.  Now what do we do ? It’s been used many times on our travels, only a few days ago to saw a piece of wood into useful slats.
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Post by Greyhound Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:37 am

bikeralw wrote:The one and only time I've been asked if I was carrying knives was by border force at Newhaven. When I said yes, the lady did request to inspect my cutlery drawer.. However my Swiss Army multi tool was in my pocket. My police friend assured me that because of it's locking blade it would have been confiscated if they'd seen it.
Al.

You should have been ok if you have a reason to have it.

A locking blade simply makes it fall under the fixed blade law, and in the same way your kitchen knives in the cutlery draw were ok, locking blades are very commonly used by people in MHs and when camping as a tool.  All you need is a valid reason to be in possession of them and you shouldn't have a problem.  Basically simply having a locking blade doesn't make it any less legal than a fixed blade and you simply need to have a valid reason to be in possession in a public place.  A stanley knife is similar because (even though the blade is small) you need to depress a button to retract the blade, so it therefore falls under fixed blade law.  Someone is carrying it to and from work is perfectly fine.

The only issue is if the police/border force etc etc are being particularly troublesome of course.
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Post by bikeralw Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:10 pm

The valid reason is the sticking point (excuse the pun...), I carry my 30 year old Swiss Army knife on my person most of the time when away from home, and until the need arises to use it, I may not have a particular reason. We had a long walk and picnic in the woods last summer with the grandsons, after using my knife to cut up our lunch, the 12 year old who is in the Scouts, used it to whittle a stick into a throwing spear. Much like I used to do with my 8 inch sheath knife when I was his age.. 
Much safer than using a dangerous folding penknife
Al.
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Post by Greyhound Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:12 pm

Yeah it's a shame the law doesn't give some allowance.

After all, if you wished to do something illegal with one, having a non-locking blade doesn't make it any less dangerous, and a criminal doesn't care whether they are breaking the law anyway, so one way of looking at it is it's really just to stop innocent people from using them.
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Post by Quilter Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:20 pm

Greyhound wrote:Yeah it's a shame the law doesn't give some allowance.

After all, if you wished to do something illegal with one, having a non-locking blade doesn't make it any less dangerous, and a criminal doesn't care whether they are breaking the law anyway, so one way of looking at it is it's really just to stop innocent people from using them.

In the unlikely event of my wishing to carry a knife for illegal purposes or self-defence, I would be much more likely to take a good sharp boning knife from the kitchen rather than fiddling about with a heavy, short bladed and awkward Swiss Army one.

 In an emergency it would take 10 minutes of rooting around my OH’s locker and opening the stiff leather case before I could use the SAK anyway. Getting the blade out takes brute strength too.
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Post by groundhog Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:01 pm

I am in trouble then, carry a folding pruning knife and stanley knife in the tool box.
Worse though, what is the penalty for carrying bear repellent in the van, very necessary in case I meet a bear in Falmouth but also handy in case some low life tries to break in during the night. They don't like it up them Captain Mainwaring....  quick_run

Whilst carrying bear spray is I know illegal in the UK wasp nest destroyer isn't and can have a good range if you get the right one, a blast of that is going to deter any would be attacker! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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