The Auto-Sleeper Motorhome Owners Forum (ASOF)
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Sheer stupidity

Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Sheer stupidity

Post by groundhog on Fri May 15, 2020 10:05 am

Watched the coastguard helicopter low overhead yesterday, on its way to rescue a kayaker who had come down to Cornwall from Leicester and the inevitable happened, got in to trouble.
Do people never learn this stupidity puts other peoples lives in danger as well! It is not as though it is an isolated case, makes me so mad when people have no respect for the sea and don't realise it will kill you in a heartbeat. so_sad
groundhog
groundhog
Donator
Donator

Posts : 2923
Joined : 2011-08-01
Location : Poldarkland
Auto-Sleeper : Worcester

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by burlingtonboaby on Fri May 15, 2020 11:07 am

Obans RNLI ,coast guard ,including local Kayak clubs to stay off the water until the lockdown eases, my son has his tied up on the trailer .
Our local CG Helo is often up along the coast , especially around Flamborough and the headland.
Boaby
burlingtonboaby
burlingtonboaby
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 9661
Joined : 2011-11-15
Member Age : 71
Location : Bridlington
Auto-Sleeper : Warwick duo
Vehicle Year : 2016

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by Gromit on Fri May 15, 2020 12:12 pm

Darwin had the answer!!!  shrugg
Gromit
Gromit
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 6724
Joined : 2015-03-11
Member Age : 77
Location : Worcestershire
Auto-Sleeper : Nuevo EK LP
Vehicle Year : 2015

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by Weegie on Fri May 15, 2020 2:28 pm

groundhog wrote:... the inevitable happened, got in to trouble... 
Why was it inevitable? I've never had to be rescued in many years of kayaking, just as I've never needed assistance in many years of hill walking, cycling, snowboarding, hill running, motorcycle riding or, indeed driving.

Is your objection to the kayaking in general, or, kayaking under the current circumstances? 

As I understand it, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong, this is now permissable south of the border, so, where did the kayaker go wrong?
Weegie
Weegie
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 234
Joined : 2018-01-20
Location : Glasgow
Auto-Sleeper : Kingham
Vehicle Year : 2017

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by groundhog on Fri May 15, 2020 4:00 pm

Weegie wrote:
groundhog wrote:... the inevitable happened, got in to trouble... 
Why was it inevitable? I've never had to be rescued in many years of kayaking, just as I've never needed assistance in many years of hill walking, cycling, snowboarding, hill running, motorcycle riding or, indeed driving.

Is your objection to the kayaking in general, or, kayaking under the current circumstances? 

As I understand it, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong, this is now permissable south of the border, so, where did the kayaker go wrong?
Absolutely NO reflection on kayaking or kayakers in general, indeed I have a a Kayak in Canada to use and it is a great hobby. In 2018 of 1650 rescues in our area only 4% were for kayakers so I would go so far as to say kayakers are among the best of all small craft users in dodgy conditions!

There is little or no lifeguard cover here at the moment, clearly to need rescuing this guy got something wrong. I have sailed these waters extensively for many years and even in a 32 foot yacht the currents, frequently invisible, can catch you out in seconds. Many people coming here from out of the area just don't understand where these rips are or how to read the sea to spot the probability of one being there. Inevitability and it happens all the time to small craft of every shape and size, they get caught in a rip, panic and get in to trouble. As an experienced kayaker yourself, you understand I am sure how important it is to understand the conditions whether it is the North of Scotland or the South of England.

Of course I haven't read the report of exactly what went wrong but the fact he was plucked from the sea by a helicopter whilst suffering hypothermia something clearly did! There was a strong NE blowing at the time with substantial swell so my honest opinion is he should not have gone out in the first place.

Hope that answers your question and apologies for not being more concise originally.
groundhog
groundhog
Donator
Donator

Posts : 2923
Joined : 2011-08-01
Location : Poldarkland
Auto-Sleeper : Worcester

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by Weegie on Fri May 15, 2020 4:22 pm

No need to apologise! 

In the conditions you describe I, probably, wouldn't have launched in strange waters, however, I know experienced kayakers who would have. 

Looks like this guy capsized and couldn't right the kayak, getting hypothermic in the water. No mention in this article of his experience, the type of kayak, kit, etc., so we shouldn't jump to conclusions (either for or against the kayaker concerned). Although it's very concerning and, yes, stupid, that he apparently didn't / wasn't able to raise the alarm himself, particularly as he was paddling solo. Perhaps you were right after all!

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/man-flown-hospital-after-being-4132713
Weegie
Weegie
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 234
Joined : 2018-01-20
Location : Glasgow
Auto-Sleeper : Kingham
Vehicle Year : 2017

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by groundhog on Fri May 15, 2020 4:25 pm

As I was typing the above report came in of two more people fishing from inflatable kayaks blown out to sea by strong offshore breeze, had to be towed back by St Agnes lifeboat.... happyno
groundhog
groundhog
Donator
Donator

Posts : 2923
Joined : 2011-08-01
Location : Poldarkland
Auto-Sleeper : Worcester

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by groundhog on Fri May 15, 2020 4:37 pm

That is half the problem, the two people today were in inflatable kayaks apparently, in a stiff offshore breeze they are only going to go one way and it is the wrong one. that is the major problem so many visitors and sometimes locals just don;t have the right kit, lifejackets or means of communication, frightening really. I am a volunteer with Devon & Cornwall police so will have a look at the report, interested to see why he nearly drowned himself!

Some videos on Mullion coastguard rescue team facebook page of the guy that capsized look here
groundhog
groundhog
Donator
Donator

Posts : 2923
Joined : 2011-08-01
Location : Poldarkland
Auto-Sleeper : Worcester

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by Askit on Fri May 15, 2020 5:23 pm

We once holidayed in an apartment in Falmouth back in the early 80s. On a beautiful July morning there was a mini-regatta going on so and, being a keen photographer, we hired a rowing boat to get closer to the action. Somewhere out from Falmouth I got the sensation of currents from different directions acting on the boat. It was long before the days of life jackets being the norm. I rowed back to whence we hired and, in the process, gained much respect for even local waters.

_________________
Tony
Askit
Askit
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 2531
Joined : 2015-05-16
Member Age : 71
Location : West of Scotland
Auto-Sleeper : Neuvo EK LP
Vehicle Year : 2015

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by groundhog on Fri May 15, 2020 6:20 pm

Yes it can go wrong anywhere. A few years back we were motoring around a point called Turnaware Point which is well inside Falmouth Harbour where the river Fal goes up to Truro. It is narrow and has strong currents. A plastic bag I just didn't see was ingested in to the engine, she just stopped and smoke started billowing from below. We were 30 feet from hitting the rocks or about the same number of seconds. I grabbed the sheet (rope) to the jib ( the little sail at the front) pulled it out whilst Lady G grabbed the helm and with just enough wind we avoid disaster by probably about 10 feet. It scared the life out of us both and just goes to show that even that close to the shore, in a harbour and a dead flat sea accidents can so easily happen.
groundhog
groundhog
Donator
Donator

Posts : 2923
Joined : 2011-08-01
Location : Poldarkland
Auto-Sleeper : Worcester

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by Mrgeoffrey on Fri May 15, 2020 6:22 pm

I used to be an auxillery coastguard at Lands End and we always found Easter was one of the busiest times of year for shouts as everyone had been cooped up for the winter so had decided they "must" go out even if conditions were unfavourable I guess this is a similar phenomenon post lockdown.
I once watched a group of  half a dozen very experienced kayakers set off to go around Lands End against the strong advise of lifeboat crew, they insisted they knew what they were doing and duly set off,sure enough an hour or so later they gained some more experience,  all needing to be rescued after several of them were tipped out of their kayaks in overfalls.
Mrgeoffrey
Mrgeoffrey
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 170
Joined : 2017-07-26
Member Age : 59
Location : Devon
Auto-Sleeper : Executive
Vehicle Year : 2005

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by Cymro on Fri May 15, 2020 6:27 pm

The sea is serious. Respect is vital. I had a hard lesson in my teens. I was crewing with friends in what I think was called an Albacore. We were in the Bristol Channel, a mile or two towards the English coast, off Barry. The Channel there gets 50' tides. My feet slipped out of the restraint and I flipped over backwards into the sea. No lifejacket. Just a woollen sweater and shorts. They did the right thing and circled, although the current was fast. I was hauled back over the keel, and got skinned in the process.

Been sailing in various places since, with due respect and care.

Cymro
Cymro
Cymro
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 2415
Joined : 2011-06-05
Location : Caerdydd - Cardiff
Auto-Sleeper : Nuevo ES
Vehicle Year : 2015

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by Sagabike on Sat May 16, 2020 9:43 am

As a white water paddler the general advice is never paddle in a group with less than three persons in separate kayaks. More depending on river grade and level of experience within the group.
I guess similar guidance must apply for open water.
Sagabike
Sagabike
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 27
Joined : 2017-12-11
Location : Swindon Village, Gloucestershi
Auto-Sleeper : Warwick
Vehicle Year : 2008

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by Cymro on Sat May 16, 2020 9:51 am

Cymro wrote:The sea is serious. Respect is vital. I had a hard lesson in my teens. I was crewing with friends in what I think was called an Albacore. We were in the Bristol Channel, a mile or two towards the English coast, off Barry. The Channel there gets 50' tides. My feet slipped out of the restraint and I flipped over backwards into the sea. No lifejacket. Just a woollen sweater and shorts. They did the right thing and circled, although the current was fast. I was hauled back over the stern, and got skinned in the process.

Been sailing in various places since, with due respect and care.

Cymro
Cymro
Cymro
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 2415
Joined : 2011-06-05
Location : Caerdydd - Cardiff
Auto-Sleeper : Nuevo ES
Vehicle Year : 2015

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by Cymro on Sat May 16, 2020 9:54 am

Ooops. Don't know how this happened. I tried to edit the original (obvious error: I wasn't keel-hauled!) but fresh version was posted. Sorry for duplication. Am unable to delete.
Cymro
Cymro
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 2415
Joined : 2011-06-05
Location : Caerdydd - Cardiff
Auto-Sleeper : Nuevo ES
Vehicle Year : 2015

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by groundhog on Thu May 21, 2020 6:43 pm

This weekend should be interesting, spring tides and a massive swell of between 9 and 13 feet predicted with no lifeguard cover on local beaches. think_smiley_46

Heard a cracking one today from someone who seriously said " I didn't realise the tide went in and out" hugegrins
groundhog
groundhog
Donator
Donator

Posts : 2923
Joined : 2011-08-01
Location : Poldarkland
Auto-Sleeper : Worcester

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by Askit on Fri May 22, 2020 7:08 am

groundhog wrote:This weekend should be interesting, spring tides and a massive swell of between 9 and 13 feet predicted with no lifeguard cover on local beaches. think_smiley_46

Heard a cracking one today from someone who seriously said " I didn't realise the tide went in and out" hugegrins

Huh, next you'll be telling us the world's not flat  scratch head

_________________
Tony
Askit
Askit
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 2531
Joined : 2015-05-16
Member Age : 71
Location : West of Scotland
Auto-Sleeper : Neuvo EK LP
Vehicle Year : 2015

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by modelman on Fri May 22, 2020 9:59 am

C'mon Askit, 'corse its flat, just look at any map. lol4

_________________
I DO have to grow old, I DO NOT have to grow up!
modelman
modelman
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 5197
Joined : 2011-09-16
Member Age : 74
Location : Barnsley,S/Yorks
Auto-Sleeper : Amethyst
Vehicle Year : 2003

http://www.modelslipway.com

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by groundhog on Mon May 25, 2020 7:37 pm

groundhog wrote:This weekend should be interesting, spring tides and a massive swell of between 9 and 13 feet predicted with no lifeguard cover on local beaches. think_smiley_46

Heard a cracking one today from someone who seriously said " I didn't realise the tide went in and out" hugegrins
It gives me no pleasure in saying I was right, two drowned and several others pulled from the sea off Cornwall's beaches by surfers or nearby people over the bank holiday.

Very very sad, a needless loss of lives. so_sad
groundhog
groundhog
Donator
Donator

Posts : 2923
Joined : 2011-08-01
Location : Poldarkland
Auto-Sleeper : Worcester

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by glyne lock on Wed May 27, 2020 1:30 pm

Groundhog
at the start of this post you said this was a kayaker can I say this was on the Cornwall news saying after it was a fishing kayak so a play around sit on. they also said nobody had been told by the person rescued he was going out on his NOTE fishing sit on  .When a kayaker like myself here a reports like this using the word KAYAK is VERY up setting .a experienced sea kayak paddler would have had the correct gear to use when safe to be out in an area like this  and be in a group and would have check out the tide times weather before even thinking of going out. yesterday 26 may I was out in my kayak on the south coast and on my way back to the bay I had set out from had to rescue two people that had been cut off when they had walked round to the next small bay but now the tide was part way back in and they could not get back with out help. they now not only would have got wet pants as  the level of water they where in but the panic they where now into getting back.  So lots of times  the experienced kayak paddlers will help out and rescue people but you don't here the good news that lots of  kayak paddlers will have done. this was not  my first or well it be the last to help with peoples under standing of tides wind and the power of the sea. by doing what I did hopefully saved some money for when the RNLI for another day when nobody is close by to help
glyne lock
glyne lock
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 507
Joined : 2019-10-18
Location : taunton
Auto-Sleeper : kemerton xl
Vehicle Year : 2019

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by groundhog on Wed May 27, 2020 2:49 pm





Absolutely NO reflection on kayaking or kayakers in general, indeed I have a a Kayak in Canada to use and it is a great hobby. In 2018 of 1650 rescues in our area only 4% were for kayakers so I would go so far as to say kayakers are among the best of all small craft users in dodgy conditions!
I am not sure if you are looking for an apology glyne but I thought the above made it abundantly clear, though getting older these days I have kayaked myself and in my younger days surfed regularly and sailed for over 40 years. I too have rescued others and been rescued twice. The vessel is almost irrelevant, it is the individual or individuals controlling it that carry the responsibility. No matter how you dress it up 4% of all shouts were to individuals in kayaks during 2018. I can only repeat NO reflection on kayakers in general and huge respect to people like yourself that carry out the sport with responsibility.
My information comes direct from the RNLI and police ( for whom I volunteer), in this case I am not saying the news reports about the exact description of the vessel are wrong but I would be a little sceptical they are always right.
groundhog
groundhog
Donator
Donator

Posts : 2923
Joined : 2011-08-01
Location : Poldarkland
Auto-Sleeper : Worcester

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by glyne lock on Wed May 27, 2020 3:20 pm

Groundhog
no not in  any way was I looking for a apology I wanted to point out it was not what people like myself call  a kayak it was a sit on play boat fishing boat .this story got sent  around to lots of sea kayak paddlers in the south west when the word kayak was used again that day
glyne lock
glyne lock
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 507
Joined : 2019-10-18
Location : taunton
Auto-Sleeper : kemerton xl
Vehicle Year : 2019

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by burlingtonboaby on Wed May 27, 2020 4:54 pm

The Coast guard helo was certainly keep busy over this last weekend , plenty of shouts for stranded walkers on cut of headlands ,dogs on cliffs etc, 
Boaby
burlingtonboaby
burlingtonboaby
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 9661
Joined : 2011-11-15
Member Age : 71
Location : Bridlington
Auto-Sleeper : Warwick duo
Vehicle Year : 2016

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by TeamRienza on Wed May 27, 2020 6:20 pm

@glyne lock
I can understand your frustration as an experienced sea kayaker in what you define as a kayak. However even one of the leading manufactures call a sit-on top a kayak.

https://www.perceptionkayaks.com/eu/en/kayaks/pescador-10

It is rather like the whole genre being called canoes, or my humble Drascombe Lugger being called a yacht. The whole safety and appropriate use of any form of water equipment is really one of education and as you know, the RYA, BCU etc all endeavour to do their best along with the many clubs to offer that advice and help. The other route is of course compulsory licensing. Not so sure about canoeing in all of its forms but the RYA has long resisted that route. We must be one of the few countries in Europe who don’t insist on personal and craft licensing (inland waters excepted). 
I fear like the Hoover we will have to live with mislabelling. I cringed when I read yesterday of someone who intended to paddle from Bournemouth to a location several miles along the coast. He lost one of his ‘oars’ and set out to walk home the 14 miles with his craft on his shoulder. He slept behind a beach hut overnight oblivious to the search that was launched on his being reported missing. His craft was a playboat, no sign of a life jacket/B aid. another photo showed him on another occasion standing posing in shorts only in the bow of an open boat. He hopes to become a marine!

Davy
TeamRienza
TeamRienza
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 510
Joined : 2011-03-08
Member Age : 66
Location : Co. Down
Auto-Sleeper : Used to own a Rienza
Vehicle Year : 2006 Mk6

Back to top Go down

Sheer stupidity Empty Re: Sheer stupidity

Post by glyne lock on Wed May 27, 2020 9:55 pm

Teamrienza
the perception pescador was just like the colours as on the news report.  as you have said this is what so many buy  but not with the gear you need to be able to use it most important a buoyancy aid and under stand its purpose of use . then  they think they can do what others like myself are doing as that's what they  see but don't look at all the gear we have to help keep us safe . every paddler I have ever been on the sea with white water paddling has always had a buoyancy aid on what ever there experience. I go out past Padstow with the tide and return  back in with the tide and have seen and helped people cut off on the large  sand bank  where two drowned that Groundhog had said about as when the tide comes in is very fast  cutting people off on the sand bank and boats hitting this sand bank and may have been what happened here. so using the name kayak for a sit on play boats and people not wearing a buoyancy aid yes is very upsetting to instructors like myself trying to train and keep people safe
glyne lock
glyne lock
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 507
Joined : 2019-10-18
Location : taunton
Auto-Sleeper : kemerton xl
Vehicle Year : 2019

Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum