Fresh water tank insulation

As we are fast heading into the winter time and we intend using our van over winter I was thinking of doing something with the fresh water side of things. Our British made vans are not nearly as well sorted as the European vans for the freezing weather we can endure over the winter if using the campers.
With that in mind and our water tanks being outside rather than inside has anyone insulated their water tank and or fitted heaters or enclosed the water tank with an outer cover. Any pics

Hi Robbie,
Put the word internal into the search box and you will find a description with photos of my system.

Brian2

Good topic

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Must admit something similar did cross my mind but our external tank has the water pump fitted inside it (bad design) rather than an internal pump inside the van. The other issue for us is pipe pickup, we would have to mount an internal tank on the wrong side of the van to the sink etc so the only way to pipe it would be to run pipes under the van which defeats the purpose.
Think the insulation way with maybe trace heater might be our best option at the moment.

Hi robbie,
Have a look at CAK Tanks website, they do heaters both manual and themostatic which should be fitted close to the pick up in the tank, one problem with insulation is that if the water does freeze an insuated tank will take a lot longer to thaw out than an uninsuated one, both heater and insulation may be a good idea, if you are out regularly in snow and ice.

Brian2

Not sure about being out in it regular but i like things a bit belt and braces, With the water pump inside the tank even draining the tank does not get the last of the water out of the pump, we were told to actually after draining to drive the van a bit to shake the last out of the tank.
Thats one of the reasons for not wanting the tank to freeze even when at home, To change the water pump is a hassle job the whole water tank has to be dropped out of the van and takes several hours according to our dealer who has already changed it once under warranty due to the pump not getting enough pressure built up.
If it breaks outside warranty the next pump will be inside the van

I'll do a search ok Cak Tanks and see what they have

Found heating elements on page 20, A 30w heater which will do spot on if required. I emailed them for product prices. I'll get the insulation as well. Found some on evil bay so will prob get 2 rolls and make sure its double insulated and fully tapped in foil tape. Installation they say is nutting through the side wall wonder how secure that is.

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Insulation
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Hi Robbie,
If your tank has one of those large access caps, you can access the inside of the tank this way, otherwise I suspect it may be a tank off job, as it looks like you have to fit a nut inside the tank.

Brian2

Still waiting for a reply from Cak on their price list but i,m now starting to look at moving over our twin 110Amp batteries which live under one of the long lounge seats. I noticed on Cak they do blue colored aqua tanks page 17 so interested in seeing how much they are for approx a 50 liter one. toying with the idea of just leaving the external tank alone and pricing up internal tank, pump and fittings. There may not be a lot of difference in the price as the insulation alone for the external tank is expensive enough for 2 rolls when u add the postage. Thats before the heater.
Mainly over winter its just 2 or 3 days at a time for us and that would be enough water and we could always have a couple of 10 litre containers under the bed if needed,would mean no water outside at all over winter

decisions decisions.................. Poor Dutto dont have these problems in sunny spain

Hi Robbie,
One advantage of collapsible tanks is that when they are empty the space is available for storage.

Brian2

murph wrote:Hi Robbie,
One advantage of collapsible tanks is that when they are empty the space is available for storage.

Brian2

I had thought of the space issue, however during winter and most likely on away for a few days space wont be a problem in the Cotswold for the two of us. The thoughts for us were plumb it into the existing supply pipework coming from the other tank and just leave it isolated for the winter then remove the winter tank as such come the spring.

Hi Robbie,
Yes that is what I have done with our bags but be warned when you cut the semi ridged pipes use a stanley type knife not a hacksaw or you will leave burrs and the pipe will not seal properly.
I dont know whether you wild camp but if you do you may find the extra tank useful, ours started out as a winter precausion but now stay in just to provide a reserve giving us 110litres instead of just 70, and they have the advantage that you know how much is left as the bags reduce in size as they empty. Acording to my 2 year old CAK price list the blue tanks go from £31 for 16 litres up to £111 as I said mine cost a tenner for 40 litres CAKs 41 litres is £65.
You Pays your money and takes your choice, theirs is less work if you have the space, patricularly if you decide to use a submersible pump and fit taps on each tank.

Brian2

Hi Murph, Reference your 110 ltrs of water for wild camping, that takes up a large slice of a Lancashires payload
(110 kgs).........
Ray
(can't figure out how to highlight a previous quote, only just figured out how to show an avatar )

Hi Sapper,
Checked on a weighbridge and 200kg under on each axle.

Brian2

Probably a daft question....but perhaps worth asking....(first post!)
Is it possible (or worthwhile) to insulate the underslung fresh water tank?
Perhaps with flexible insulation such as silver foil-wrapped bubble wrap fixed with duct tape, or better....?

Why A/S don't fit tanks like domestic hot tanks with polyurethane foam insulation beats me. It cannot be a significantly extra cost to produce than the plain plastic tank they currently fit.

Hi Auricula yes its possible to insulate with the bubble wrap type stuff, I posted a link to it earlier, working out 2 rolls of that, plus silver foil tape and a 30w heating element isnt that cheap plus the tank isnt easy dropped without a big jack to lift the rear of the van or a pit. Its prob as cheap to fit an over winter internal tank system which aint going to freeze. As for autosleeper not fitting a proper insulated tank hmmmmmmmmmmmm 100% agree
Brain ur right on cutting the pipe, fitted poly pipe a lot and also normal copper pipe so well enough kitted out to do the tank installation. The external tank on the cotswold is quite a big buggar and we can go a week on it, plus the toilet has its own tank again that we wont use over winter. One of the ideas on the proper type tank was hmmm maybe just leave it in as like u thought. decisions decisions lol

I never have water in my blue tank in the winter. Why lug that amount of water around?? When on EHU I just use a 10ltr container, boil it as required and refill as necessary No expenditure needed.

I suppose everyone is different, for cooking yes a container would be spot on, however we are not big on camp sites and never have been at any time of year though we dont mind aires in France. EHU we never be on that in the Uk unless on a CL the very odd time, we run of our twin 110A batteries or if really needed kick in the 2kw Honda generator which is deadly quiet.
As for wanting proper water storage like all the european vans over winter we like to have showers with hot water.

was thinking of a trip to andorra again next year, wonder if the second tank would be good with 50 liters of Vodka lol at 80p a litre

Hi Robbie
Well said, a man after my own heart, we do sometimes use EHU in the winter as I dont like having gas on while we are asleep but we usually manage without.

Brian2

murph wrote: Hi Robbie
Well said, a man after my own heart, we do sometimes use EHU in the winter as I dont like having gas on while we are asleep but we usually manage without.

Brian2

Our van has a webasto heating system fitted so no worries about gas overnight BUT it runs on diesel and hmmm the main white diesel tank which makes it a bit more expensive, Over on this side of the pond we dont have many CL,s at all unlike mainland UK. If we were based over there I would hazard a guess we would be a bit like yourselves and use EHU a bit more frequent during the winter.

Calor gas is heavier than air so if there is a leak it will vent down - not up

Too far off-topic, so moved it to Tech Chat.

shelldrake wrote:Calor gas is heavier than air so if there is a leak it will vent down - not up

Very true but I think the worry is when boilers/heaters are turned on overnight that carbon monoxide poisoning could happen, quite a few fit alarms these days.

Hi Robbie,
This is our first winter with an Autosleeper. My thoughts were that a pet bed heating mat held to the bottom of the tank with some waterproof insulator (silver screen style perhaps) would do the job. Our pet bed heater works off 12V or 230V and is itself waterproof. I have not tried it yet but may work on it when I do not have to lie on a wet cold drive to work!
Regards,
Bill

Hi Bill,
I see this is your first post. Anyone not following this thread would not know you have joined, so please take a minute to introduce yourself here..

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I see our posts have crossed and you have introduced yourself now so please ignore this post.

Robbie wrote:
decisions decisions.................. Poor Dutto dont have these problems in sunny spain

He well does now he is back in Skegness though!

If I was looking for someone to blame I would start with all those people who .................. !!

Not to worry. The outside thermometer is in the sun and it has just hit 15 degrees! Frost? What's that?

Grudging best regards from Skeggy!