Symbol Plus -No Solar Output

Hi Folks

I have a 2018 Symbol Plus with only 1k miles on the clock due to lockdown. I noticed the Sun icon on the Ec700 display had gone and decided to investigate without a circuit diagram, a case of poke and hope. I noticed first that there was no led indications illuminated on the 150 watt Sargent controller and only 11volts being presented to the input. My question to yourselves is  " is there any fuse or loom connecters between the solar panel and the input to the controller?". Or could it just be a duff solar panel which will require changing under warranty. 

Thank you in anticipation.

Hi
Welcome to the forum from Bridington 
Boaby

Thank You Boaby, from here in sunny Tenby. An Artic Walrus called Wally is causing chaos in the harbour today sinking rowing boats and enthralling the tourists

Welcome.

Can't help with your solar panel query I'm afraid. I notice that have posted this in the Coachbuilt Motorhome section when your Symbol Plus is a Van Conversion which have their own section. You've also posted the same query in Technical Chat and duplicated posts are considered to be poor forum etiquette.

Thank you for the welcome

morristraveller wrote:Thank you for the welcome

hello M&J i reckon?
cant help much with the solar issue but there are a few who have this Sargent system and will be along shortly, no doubt

Yes, welcome. I'm sure someone will know the way to go.

this is a duplicate thread
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Access to the EC700 wiring Loom varies in difficulty depending on the model. I don't know what Solar Controller you have and what has been done re connecting it.

Usually the Solar Controller input has a fly lead on it with a plug and socket connector. Often it is mounted near the EC700 under a Bench Seat if you can get access to get a look and spot the Solar Controller you should be able to unplug the Solar Panel and measure the voltage/check the connection, normally there is no fuse.

Thank you Marconi. This is exactly how I approached the fault. The controller is a 150w Sargent item with two LED indicators, both of which are inactive. I took my voltage readings from the fly lead attached to the solar panel. My thought process was the possibility of a loom connector fault/dry joint between the fly lead and solar panel.

It would seem the dealer will have to repair / replace the panel under warranty.

I speak from the Naughty Step as I have broken the forum's etiquette, such a bad boy.
Thank you again

morristraveller wrote:Thank you Marconi. This is exactly how I approached the fault. The controller is a 150w Sargent item with two LED indicators, both of which are inactive. I took my voltage readings from the fly lead attached to the solar panel. My thought process was the possibility of a loom connector fault/dry joint between the fly lead and solar panel.

It would seem the dealer will have to repair / replace the panel under warranty.

I speak from the Naughty Step as I have broken the forum's etiquette, such a bad boy.
Thank you again

Oh good, well not so good but at least you know.

Does the controller look like this.

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If so I can't believe A-S are still fitting them.

Naughty step. Your last was your 6th post, plenty of time to reach perfection. Beware the punishment's for further misdemeanors are extremely severe.

Oh yes that's the regulator, it looks and feels like a marjarine box . If the panel can be changed on warranty I would try and pay a little extra and get a more powerful panel plus a better regulator.

Thanks

I see from your original post you had already seen the Solar Regulator, I didn't clock that, doh! I also thought it was a 2020 van I must have read another thread and confused them.

If you can get a bigger Solar Panel it would be good. Whilst a better regulator would definitely improve things the EC700 is a hot topic on here. It is very wasteful of Solar Power and the 'Smart' charging is less than efficient.

Owners have gone for bypassing the EC700 and using a Dual Output Solar Controller. When I investigated the inefficiency problem I concluded that any expense on a Solar Controller which is connected to the EC700 is a waste of money. Others have been overjoyed with the results of ignoring the EC700.

There are numerous threads on the subject.


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My Poking & Hoping is bearing fruit. On a not so sunny day my 80w solar panel is now banging out 18v+. With the solar panel connected to the Sargent (margarine box) regulator but disconnected from the ec700 I receive no LED activity and no output.

Should I now deduce that the regulator is knackered, or that the output must be connected to the EC700 for the clever electronics in both units to shake hands with each other and as soon as the leisure batteries drop to a low level the whole system will become active. (A simple thought from a simple man)

Thanks

I posted elsewhere with my problems with the solar feed, which seems similar to yours. I eventually traced the fault to a bad connection on where the line from the regulator connects to the back of the Sargent panel. When the connection was not made, the light on the regulator goes out (battery) too.

Problem was solved by redoing the connection on the Sargent panel.

You problem might be different, but hope this helps

morristraveller wrote:
Should I now deduce that the regulator is knackered, or that the output must be connected to the EC700 for the clever electronics in both units to shake hands with each other and as soon as the leisure batteries drop to a low level the whole system will become active. (A simple thought from a simple man)

Unfortunately you can't infer much from a test in which the solar controller is disconnected on its output side. Typically, when you power up a controller like that, the first thing it will do is to "probe" whatever is connected to its output to see whether the battery will accept a charge. This allows it to determine which of its charging modes to engage to charge the battery properly - if needed - or to go into "float" mode if not. It's hard to predict what a charger will do if it detects no battery-like voltage on the output terminals, but it doesn't seem unreasonable that it should give up and turn its output off if it detects no voltage.

Hopefully you will still find a wiring/connection problem somewhere, or discover (via other means) that the regulator is shagged, because either of those is a lot less aggravation than having to take the panel off and replace it!

The plot developed. I disconnected the flying lead from the solar panel and measured the voltage, 18v on an overcast afternoon . Then I connected a car lamp bulb across the output of the panel, result : not a flutter of illumination from the lamp just and a reduced voltage down to 2 volts. This suggests to me a knackered panel.(Schottky diodes perhaps). 

The van is under warranty but I don't trust the dealer (nor do half the population of Wales according to their online reviews). So I wanted to be prepared for any arguments. I will take the opportunity to upgrade the the size of the panel and controller if I can.

I'll give you some feedback........ wish me luck

morristraveller wrote:The plot developed. I disconnected the flying lead from the solar panel and measured the voltage, 18v on an overcast afternoon . Then I connected a car lamp bulb across the output of the panel, result : not a flutter of illumination from the lamp just and a reduced voltage down to 2 volts. This suggests to me a knackered panel.

I guess it depends on what power rating of bulb you connected. But the drop in voltage is exactly what you would expect if you have a good, working panel in low light levels. The panels (when working correctly) have a high internal resistance, so if you connect a (near-)short across the output, the voltage drops. It would not surprise me at all that a panel cannot light a filament bulb in relatively low light conditions.

Say, for example, that the bulb is a 21W brake light bulb. That requires near enough 2A to light at full brightness, which is nearly half of the (realistic) rated output of the panel. If you put 1A through that lamp, it would hardly light at all.

You may be right, and the panel may be faulty - but the evidence that you have there isn't conclusive.