Access to leisure battery

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Access to leisure battery Empty Access to leisure battery

Post by Dare-devil-dennis on Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:19 pm

Hi

My Stanton leisure battery is beneath the passenger seat. The only way to access it is by undoing the four hex socket screws holding down the seat swivel base and lifting the seat (very heavy) clear.

Is this correct or am I missing a trick?

My problem(s) with this are that it makes access a real pain in the neck. Also, as the seat belt is fastened to the seat and not the floor of the cab, these four bolts are the effective anchor points for the seat belts. They are M10 x 35mm countersunk screws and fasten into captive (not welded) nuts in the lower seat mounting "box". I realise this will have all been covered in the type approval of the vehicle, but in my case, the alignment of the four captive nuts and the swivel base is not perfect and re-fitting the four screws is nigh on impossible to re-fit them, Also, I cannot find torque figures for these screws.

Any views?

I think the seat should be hinged from the front so it tips forward once the remaining two rear screws are removed.
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Access to leisure battery Empty Re: Access to leisure battery

Post by Liam on Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:14 pm

I’ve not found it a big issue and on the very rare occasion that I have had to access that compartment to address the leisure battery I found that the screws easily realigned when refitting. Can’t comment on the torque levels but being an “old fashioned engineer” application of “tight enough” works for me - I regularly check such screws are secure on a regular basis.
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Access to leisure battery Empty Re: Access to leisure battery

Post by Peter Brown on Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:30 pm

Dare-devil-dennis wrote:Hi

My Stanton leisure battery is beneath the passenger seat. The only way to access it is by undoing the four hex socket screws holding down the seat swivel base and lifting the seat (very heavy) clear.

Is this correct or am I missing a trick?

My problem(s) with this are that it makes access a real pain in the neck. Also, as the seat belt is fastened to the seat and not the floor of the cab, these four bolts are the effective anchor points for the seat belts. They are M10 x 35mm countersunk screws and fasten into captive (not welded) nuts in the lower seat mounting "box". I realise this will have all been covered in the type approval of the vehicle, but in my case, the alignment of the four captive nuts and the swivel base is not perfect and re-fitting the four screws is nigh on impossible to re-fit them, Also, I cannot find torque figures for these screws.

Any views?

I think the seat should be hinged from the front so it tips forward once the remaining two rear screws are removed.

When free, just push the seat forward and tilt it till the back rests on the dashboard. Full access to compartment is facilitated without the need to lift.

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Post by -mojo- on Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:03 pm

Dare-devil-dennis wrote:Also, I cannot find torque figures for these screws.

Any views?

On the torque figures, as Liam says, generally "tight enough" will be fine - all you need is for them to be such that they can't vibrate loose, and as there are 4 of them there should be enough safety margin anyway - you should notice the seat slopping about worryingly long before they all get loose enough to drop out!

If you want to do it "properly" then there are standard torque tables for general application which should be fine in any "general purpose" fixings (as opposed to "stretch bolts" and similar non-standard fixings). You should be able to find these tables with an internet search - you'll probably find that the bolts are tensile strength marked but if not, I doubt it's that critical, provided you don't shear them off!
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Post by Pete Taylor on Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:04 am

2017 Stanton... why do you need to "access" your leisure battery? Leave it alone for 6-7 years.

The Stanton seat does not tilt.

Why do the usual suspects always dash in to offer advice on vehicles they do not own? look here

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Access to leisure battery Empty Re: Access to leisure battery

Post by Peter Brown on Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:40 am

I do own a Mercedes and if you unbolt the seat and push the top of the back forward it tilts. You should try it before speculating.

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Post by Liam on Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:59 am

Pete Taylor wrote:2017 Stanton... why do you need to "access" your leisure battery? Leave it alone for 6-7 years.

The Stanton seat does not tilt.

Why do the usual suspects always dash in to offer advice on vehicles they do not own? look here
I have had to remove the seat to access the leisure battery on a couple of occasions in the 3.5years of ownership - one time was to fit a 2nd battery and the second was whist fitting air suspension. 
For preference and ease of access I lifted the seat out of the cab on both occasions.
The 2014 Malvern is also on an MB chassis.
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Access to leisure battery Empty Re: Access to leisure battery

Post by Dare-devil-dennis on Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:25 am

Thank you for your responses, which are appreciated. 

Why do I need access? Well, I want to increase the capacity of the leisure battery because we want to do one, two or three night stops between sites with EHU, showers and disposal facilities. My wife uses a CPAP machine for her sleep apnea for sleeping. Off grid, this uses 12VDC and so we are limited (especially these months without effective solar) to the endurance of the battery.

Interestingly enough, on looking at the fitted battery, I found that it is a Hankook DC27MF 90AH Calcium battery. I find this very odd as the vehicle battery is a Bosch 92AH AGM battery. Puzzled by the reference to Calcium, I found this on the Alpha batteries web site

"There is a great deal of mis-information associated with Calcium Technology, to put the record straight the technique is used in most, if not all, modern battery production.
The technology is based upon strengthening the lead plates with Calcium and other materials to make them stronger. They do not require different charging voltages and should always be treated as standard lead acid batteries."
So I have a mix of AGM and lead acid batteries on my vehicle. Given the present controversy regarding the differences in charging regimes for AGM and Lead acid batteries and the fact that I have the Sargent EC500 system charging both batteries with "smart charging" and solar, not to mention the Mercedes vehicle alternator, I am still at a bit of a loss as to why I have what I have and in upgrading the leisure capacity, what to change it to.


Thanks for the comments on Torque Tables, I do know about them, but I wondered if someone had an actual figure for these as they are safety related to the seat belt anchoring.
I feel a call to Autosleepers coming up.


Thanks again


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Post by Dare-devil-dennis on Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:29 am

As a post script to my last post and with reference to safety, the seat bolts are marked with paint "tell tale" marks on them to indicate if they have been undone, so someone in the build process regards them as significant.
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:57 am

AGM battery (MB option ED4) seems to be standard on current 4 cylinder Sprinters. The Hankook battery is an AS supply.

Do you have the Build data for your MB chassis? Put your VIN into this to get it.

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Post by Peter Brown on Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:59 am

The AGM battery accepts a fast charge and is a component of the regenerative braking system.  

The Hankook leisure battery used to be branded as NUMAX and I've also seen the same unit with other brand names, its a popular and effective leisure battery for use in a motorhome.

There is no problem connecting the two batteries together to charge, but the starter battery will accept charge at a much faster rate.

If you can get another Hankook 90AH alongside the first, that is the best option (you may have to turn the battery alignment by 90deg to get them in).  If, for the reason of physical dimension, you have to drop the capacity of the second to 70AH or even 60AH that will work fine.

On the Mercedes that I have owned for over six years, the leisure battery consists of a 100AH unit under the passenger seat (that I have had to remove the seat to service several times) and a 70AH right at the back of the 7M long van.  The installation is very effective, I replaced both batteries a few months ago because one had become damaged as a result of a very unusual fault in the solar charging circuit.  If that hadn't happened I'm sure both of the originals (As fitted in the factory) would still be in excellent condition now.

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Post by Dare-devil-dennis on Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:59 am

I do have the build info. AGM + Smart Alternator. 
Wonder what that does to the Leisure battery via the Sargent system.
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Post by Peter Brown on Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:01 am

Dare-devil-dennis wrote:I do have the build info. AGM + Smart Alternator. 
Wonder what that does to the Leisure battery via the Sargent system.
see above

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Post by Dare-devil-dennis on Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:02 am

Many thanks
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Post by -mojo- on Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:05 am

Dare-devil-dennis wrote:As a post script to my last post and with reference to safety, the seat bolts are marked with paint "tell tale" marks on them to indicate if they have been undone, so someone in the build process regards them as significant.

Apologies - I didn't mean to trivialise (but realise that I probably did appear to). Yes, they are important, but I think you will find that if the bolts are tight enough to stay done up, that's good enough.

If you really want to get a precise figure, I recommend that you contact the base vehicle manufacturer rather than A/S, as in my experience A/S will wash their hands of anything supplied as part of the base vehicle!
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Post by Dare-devil-dennis on Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:11 pm

Sincerely, apologies not needed. 

I did wonder if the swivel part of the seats was added by AS because MB would not fit them in a Sprinter van. What do you think?
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:39 pm

Does your Build Data show SR8 & SR9, which are MB option for swivel seat bases for Sprinter?
If not they will be AS fitment.

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Post by Dare-devil-dennis on Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:44 pm

Brilliant!

No SR8 or SR9 on my build sheets

Thanks, takes one step out of the process.
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Post by Pete Taylor on Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:07 am

Hopefully, no offense was taken by "jumpers in" who offer advice, on any subject, any  van, any year,  at the drop of a hat- the passenger seat on a Stanton is an unbolting job, not a two- minnit, innit (!) tip and tilting exercise.

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Post by -mojo- on Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:24 am

Pete Taylor wrote:Hopefully, no offense was taken by "jumpers in" who offer advice

No Pete, no offense (sic) taken by me at all!
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:38 am

No one suggested it wasn't an unbolting job. Peter B did suggest that having unbolted, tip it forward to get access to avoid the need to lift out of the way.

ps all MB seats are the same, not unique to a Stanton.

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Post by gemdeco on Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:41 am

Hi Everyone
       Merry Christmas I think the discussion got a bit heated,any way When I tried to undo the seat securing screws with an allen key I could not shift them,so to be safe I think you need a hexagonal socket ,and yes mine had a dab of paint on them,also if you do each one up a little at a time,the seat bracket should self center,one last thing AS Gloucester/ Malvern owners should know ,I thought the leisure battery was under the rear bed or I am I wrong again
kind regards
Alan
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Post by Peter Brown on Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:47 am

You have two, one under the bed and the other under the passenger seat. They are connected together at the base of the EC325/328 but each has a fuse at its +ve terminal.

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Post by gemdeco on Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:52 am

Hi Peter
    thank you you are a mine of information,I cannot wait to pick my AS Gloucester up,I got snowed out when I last tried
kind regards
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Post by Peter Brown on Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:09 pm

Alan, Cant remember why but I sent you a pm on 18th and still not been accessed by you.

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