Dartford Crossing

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Dartford Crossing

Post by oldbikerider on Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:52 pm

A heads up for members the Dartford Crossing now has drive through booths and lots and lots of camera's.
If using this crossing be aware you have to pay in advance by phone or internet or face a hefty fine
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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by PLOUGHLIN on Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:17 pm

oldbikerider wrote:A heads up for members the Dartford Crossing now has drive through booths and lots and lots of camera's.
If using this crossing be aware you have to pay in advance by phone or internet or face a hefty fine

Doesn't start until 30/11. You  have until midnight on the day following to pay or £35/£70/£105 escalating fine. Still free between 10pm & 6am, and trailers now go free.
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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by mikethebike on Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:02 am

Hi thanks for that heads up. I had forgotten about the new system.Lets hope the mainland have to pay when they come over as well.
Regards

Micky
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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by Dutto on Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:05 am

PLOUGHLIN wrote:
oldbikerider wrote:A heads up for members the Dartford Crossing now has drive through booths and lots and lots of camera's.
If using this crossing be aware you have to pay in advance by phone or internet or face a hefty fine

Doesn't start until 30/11. You  have until midnight on the day following to pay or £35/£70/£105 escalating fine. Still free between 10pm & 6am, and trailers now go free.
Thanks for the heads-up on Drive-Through booths ....  up!

.... does this mean that I will not be able to pay at any booth using money or a credit card .... scratch head scratch head

.... if ordinary booths are still available, how are the Drive-Through booths identified so that I can avoid them? scratch head

Typical UK to use an "escalating fine" system. tap_fingers tap_fingers

After the Dartford Crossing we normally sail for France and a "fine" sent to my home wouldn't be seen for six to eight weeks! tap_fingers tap_fingers  

Best regards,
drinksallround

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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by mikethebike on Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:08 am

Hi Ian Its all done by cameras.So no stopping. Work out much that take is in 24 hours. hugegrins hugegrins hugegrins

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Micky
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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by mikethebike on Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:11 am

Hi Ian , Yes that looks an additional revenue stream for the operators.You missing to pay in advance. hugegrins
Could we buy into this company? scratch head

Regards

Micky
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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by Dutto on Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:32 am

Hi there,

Just done a bit of research and "WOW!"

I have never seen anything like this before!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

If I am reading this correctly there will be NOWHERE that allows anyone to pay, by cash or by credit card, at the Dartford Crossing itself.

This is either complete madness or an orchestrated attempt to rip people off with fines!!

The system may give options for paying the toll as per ....

o  online at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
o  over the phone by calling: 0300 300 0120
o  via a payzone retail outlet
o by post (in advance only): Dart Charge Customer Services PO Box 842 Leeds LS1 9QF

.... but what happens to the hundreds of people who don't have access to a mobile phone or the internet; especially if they are using the crossing to go away on holiday?

Then, to add insult to injury, they are increasing the toll itself.

I have travelled the length and breadth of Europe and I have never seen a similar system used to gather a toll on a road or a crossing.

Has anyone else? scratch head scratch head

Best regards,
drinksallround

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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by mikethebike on Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:26 am

Hi Ian, Don't worry you can pay in advance. hugegrins hugegrins hugegrins
By post or set up an account .
Yes its not a cheap option ,but you can go via the Blackwall tunnel. OH i forgot you have a diesel,that's more expensive.
You could go round the M25 the other way. Maybe use the Newhaven ferry to France.
Hope this helps

Micky
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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by Dutto on Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:11 am

Mike,

As it happens, and purely coincidental, Helen has decided that to France:

o  OUT will be the overnight Portsmouth > St Malo route (leaving home nice and early), and

o  BACK will be the early morning Caen > Portsmouth route (sleeping in the car-park at Caen the night before and back home by 6pm).

Any other crossing will be from Hull or Harwich, so we will avoid London and the Dartford Crossing for the foreseeable future! allthumbz

Best regards,
drinksallround
Ian

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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by richardstubbs on Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:42 pm

Dutto wrote:Hi there,

Just done a bit of research and "WOW!"

I have never seen anything like this before!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

If I am reading this correctly there will be NOWHERE that allows anyone to pay, by cash or by credit card, at the Dartford Crossing itself.

This is either complete madness or an orchestrated attempt to rip people off with fines!!

The system may give options for paying the toll as per ....

o  online at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
o  over the phone by calling: 0300 300 0120
o  via a payzone retail outlet
o by post (in advance only): Dart Charge Customer Services PO Box 842 Leeds LS1 9QF

.... but what happens to the hundreds of people who don't have access to a mobile phone or the internet; especially if they are using the crossing to go away on holiday?

Then, to add insult to injury, they are increasing the toll itself.

I have travelled the length and breadth of Europe and I have never seen a similar system used to gather a toll on a road or a crossing.

Has anyone else? scratch head scratch head

Best regards,
drinksallround

I'm no supporter of tolls in general, or this (or any) government, but I'm struggling to understand why you're quite so upset about this. OK, putting the tolls up at the same time is a bit off, but I don't think they've gone up for a while.

We only do this river crossing once a year, on the way to Dover for the ferry, but I'm definitely looking forward to not having to wait in the hour-long queue for the toll booths next year. And what's wrong with the payment methods? I'm envisaging my wife paying by phone as we drive away from the bridge without having had to stop. Suits me. Surely you don't go away without a mobile phone? Even if you do then 'any Payzone retail outlet' is every Spar, Nisa etc. I'm sure the shops in the motorway services on the M25 and M20 etc. will have Payzone machines - it would be odd if they didn't. For goodness sake, even if you're a complete technophobe then you could use a payphone in the port surely!

I think that on balance it's a good thing. The only losers will be the people who work in the booths, which of course is bad for them, but the rest of us will win I reckon. I'm sure I used more than the extra 50p toll charge in fuel in the queue this year.

Oh and, if you ever go into London, you'll find that the same or a very similar system has been in use for some considerable time to collect the congestion charge. Seems to work fine there.

Richard.
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Dartford Crossing

Post by oldbikerider on Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:54 pm

Well at least by putting this on certainly raised the temperature.
I didn't see anything about this until the date of original posting and found the info buried on page 28 in a small block at the bottom corner of the page in a national newspaper.
Why haven't all the various Clubs C & CC, CC or P & O, DFDS, even the government, highlighted this change and given it a bit more prominence.
Maybe this is the reason Cameron wanted the European Arrest Warrant in force so we can hammer the rest of the EU citizens and clear off our balance of payments deficit in quick time.
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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by mikethebike on Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:06 pm

Hi Yes its not being shouted out. I wonder why? confused3 scratch head
i often wonder when seeing signs near London saying LEZ .Nothing about paying or where.It must trouble some visitors.
I did get caught in Norway.Had taken the trouble to ask about visit from the tourist office and a friend in OSLO.No mention of the motoway tolls was said. Got caught at a auto toll booth with no instructions.However photo taken ,not seen.
Many Months later letter for small charge and big fine for not paying quickly.
Not going again. wave
Regards

Micky
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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by daisy mae on Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:52 pm

Well I for one think it is a stupid idea, another money making tax.

I don`t use credit or debit cards to pay in shops etc I pay in cash, I don`t use mobiles, hate the things think they are antisocial the way most folk use them, I do have a mobile in MH only for if I break down, or need to if meeting someone when travelling, that is all, would never use to pay a bill, the same reason I do not do online banking, old fashion maybe, at least I know where my money is and where it goes, never had to queue long if at all when going through Dartford,   will probably have to go next week for a funeral near London. I get held up at checkouts with others who pay by card, cash is quicker, Dartford have coins ready no hassle.

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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by Dutto on Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:58 am

richardstubbs wrote:
Dutto wrote:......

............. but I'm struggling to understand why you're quite so upset about this. ...........

We only do this river crossing once a year, on the way to Dover for the ferry, but I'm definitely looking forward to not having to wait in the hour-long queue for the toll booths next year. .............

Richard.
Richard,

I am upset for the simple reasons that:

1.  I didn't know the system had been changed and I suspect that I am not alone as the change has not been widely advertised.

2.  Like yourself many of the 170,000 vehicles a day will be occasional users and their only warning will be when they arrive at the Crossing.

3.  Not everyone has a mobile phone so your "wait at the barrier" will be replaced for many people with "search for a pay-phone".

4.  Not everyone has a Credit Card or a Debit Card so your "wait at the barrier" will be replaced with "search for retail outlet with a Payzone".

5.  The 0300 number is a "standard rate" call and the cost of the phone call is additional to the actual Toll.

6.  I do not have internet access when I am en route to somewhere like Spain (a three day journey for us).

7.  Most public internet access points in France and Spain are not secure enough to send my Credit or Debit Card details.

The way in which the fines are escalated is as follows:

o  If drivers fail to pay by midnight on the day they use the crossing they will be fined £35.

o  In the event they do not pay within 14 days the fine increases to £70.

o  If they do not pay within four weeks the fine increases to £105.

The "escalating" nature of the system could not be better designed to catch people who didn't know they had committed an offence and are then away from their homes when the notification arrives.

We have used the Dartford Crossing (tunnel and bridge) well over thirty times in the last ten years and we have never had to queue for more than ten minutes to pay our Toll.  We may have been lucky but even a "wait in the hour-long queue" is preferable to "finding a payphone" or "finding a retail outlet with a Payzone" or "a fine of £105".

Incidentally, I am not alone in my concerns.  A few days ago the headline in The London Evening Standard (which is a newspaper not often seen in Skegness) was ....
"New Dartford Crossing online payment system 'could see millions of motorists hit with fines' "

Are you aware that the Dartford Crossing is no longer owned and managed by the local councils?  In 1988 responsibility for the crossing was transferred from the Kent and Essex County Councils to Dartford River Crossing Limited which is a private company.

The recent changes mean that Dartford River Crossing Limited have ...

.... laid off all the people manning the booths ....

.... increased the Toll by 25% from £2.00 to £2.50 ....

.... and stand to benefit from "millions of fines".

I hope that you aren't still "struggling to understand" why I am upset. hugegrins hugegrins

Best regards,
drinksallround

References:

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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by Paulmold on Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:21 am

I actually pointed this change in toll booths back in April in this thread, so there certainly has been advance notice...

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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by Backtrax on Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:15 am

I am surprised to see this change was not known about - particularly by those who are great travelers.
Even we up in the frozen north knew about it.
It just shows that a wise man is one who spends most of his time listening and reading rather than talking and writing.
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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by Dutto on Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:17 am

Hi there,

Come on Paul.  The question posed in the original Post was about the current cost of Dartford Crossing fees and the Post was answered in the first three responses so your post could have been classed as

goneoff goneoff

hugegrins   hugegrins   hugegrins

With regard to the change being "widely advertised", if this is the case then why was there a perceived need to post this Thread on the Forum? scratch head

However, in response to the "widely advertised" comment I have checked the back copies of the Skegness Standard and I haven't found a single article about The Dartford Crossing, never mind a change in the way that the Tolls will be collected.

Similarly, when we were in France during April/May and September/October I didn't see any mention in our local paper Ouest-France which we read every day we were there. wave

Best regards,
drinksallround

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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by PLOUGHLIN on Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:58 am

DVLA included a leaflet about the change in the VED renewal reminders recieved in October. Don't know when this started.

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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by Paulmold on Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:26 am

Dutto wrote:Hi there,

Come on Paul.  The question posed in the original Post was about the current cost of Dartford Crossing fees and the Post was answered in the first three responses so your post could have been classed as

goneoff goneoff

hugegrins   hugegrins   hugegrins

With regard to the change being "widely advertised", if this is the case then why was there a perceived need to post this Thread on the Forum? scratch head

However, in response to the "widely advertised" comment I have checked the back copies of the Skegness Standard and I haven't found a single article about The Dartford Crossing, never mind a change in the way that the Tolls will be collected.

Similarly, when we were in France during April/May and September/October I didn't see any mention in our local paper Ouest-France which we read every day we were there. wave

Best regards,
drinksallround

Firstly Ian, it was relevant to the original question regarding fees (and of course you never go 'off topic' do you Ian)  secondly I don't expect things such as the Dartford Crossing to be given a great deal of publicity in newspapers or other media outside the geographical area to which it concerns (I never read about anything in Skegness in my local rag) but what I was saying is that in the relevant area i.e. Kent, it had been publicised.
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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by Dutto on Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:03 pm

Paul,

Joke? .... wave wave wave

But out of the 170,000 vehicles that use the Dartford Crossing every day how many are not from Kent, the surrounding area or even from the UK?

I suspect that the figure will run into many thousands!

To me, the fines still seem like a very cynical way of ripping people off and as the newspaper article I quoted points out, it will catch many, many thousands of innocent motorists. tap_fingers

Best regards,
drinksallround
Ian

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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by mikethebike on Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:06 pm

Hi its not all bad news. Its free after 10 till 6.
A charge card account 1.67 a trip could be worthwhile.

Bad News The road work starts November till Spring.
That could mean much longer waiting times/accidents.

Regards


Micky
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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by daisy mae on Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:16 pm

It was said at one time as soon as the money in covered the building of the bridge it would be free, yes right !!!!! 

 Did you know that visitors from out of the country, I presume that includes lorries, do not have to pay, how fair is that, NOT . we have to pay foreign tolls do we not. ?

This country is squeezing motorists left  right and centre and we can not do anything  about it. we are sitting targets.

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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by Backtrax on Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:22 pm

Oh Daisy Mae, I do wish you had not posted that!
I can already hear the next installment of political bilge being typed out on the east coast.
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Re: Dartford Crossing

Post by mikethebike on Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:30 pm

Hi More research coming.

Charging is carried out by number plate camera recognition.
All us honest citizens will pay.
Those with false number plates FOC.
Those from the continent will have a charge sent to them at home.This is new, but is done in London charging. LEZ.
How many will pay is not known. Maybe many come here with false plates,who knows. confused3 scratch head
Have tried to find a pay shop place as advertised without success. Maybe I am too early. hugegrins hugegrins
Some special signage for lorries ,which will cause more confusion. frustrating
Maybe best to avoid this area until ,maybe June 2015. happyyes

Regards


Micky
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Dartford Crossing

Post by oldbikerider on Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:30 pm

Have been speaking to family and found out that my brother worked for a time in a toll booth.
Before being made redundant they where told that manned booths were being replaced by pay as you go machines (a la French Toll roads).
If this is true, and I have no reason to disbelieve him, then the new method of payments is just an excuse for the DC company to line thier pockets at the expense of motorists.
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Re: Dartford Crossing

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