Stopping production of the 5.7m Nuevo !!!

Hi Guys

I have had my 5.7m Nuevo EK for a couple of years now, purchased new.  I learnt a while back that a slightly longer Nuevo (5.99m) was being introduced but didnt realise that Peugeot and Fiat were discontinuing production of the 5.7 version. Will this make the shorter Nuevo more desirable and increase the second hand market or will people prefer the longer Nuevo and put sleeping length over parking issues?
be really interested to hear peoples views. Cheers

I suspect, given the current market, they will be equally difficult to sell.

I wonder if they said the same when they stopped production of my 5.4m long Nuevo?
Like cars, every new model is longer, wider and heavier. Which to me seems to be the wrong way to go in this day and age.
Al.

bikeralw wrote:I wonder if they said the same when they stopped production of my 5.4m long Nuevo?
Like cars, every new model is longer, wider and heavier. Which to me seems to be the wrong way to go in this day and age.
Al.

Yes indeed, hadnt really thought about that but i think either a 5.4m or 5.7m would still fit in to a parking space quite easily but a 5.99m is really pushing it. 

Tinwheeler wrote:I suspect, given the current market, they will be equally difficult to sell.

Be interesting to see as i am booked in to the NEC next week and the "pop-up" site was only available for 1 night when i usually get 3 so i think its going to be a busy one, weather or not people will part with large sums of cash or just browse will remain to be seen 

The 5.99m Nuevo feels much more spacious inside, we saw one at SMC motorhomes, it actually feels more like a Broadway than the Nuevo’s we are used to, not sure why Auto Sleeper keep increasing the length of their models, we would have loved an End Lounge Broadway again but I personally feel they’ve spoilt it by increasing the length over the earlier model we had previously, shame as we would have been tempted to go for a new model.

I thought I read somewhere that Peugeot or Fiat are stopping production of the 3m SWB base vehicle so the Nuevo+ might have to replace the standard Nuevo.  I don't know if this is true.  The Nuevo+ has an Al-Ko chassis.  I would be interested to know the technical impacts of this.  For example, the Nuevo+ payload appears to be much higher than the Nuevo's, presumably because the Al-Ko chassis is lighter.  The Nuevo doesn't need a higher payload but I would be interested to know the new axle masses and wheel bases.  The Nuevo+ may have a higher rear axle loading margin which could make a tow bar e-bike rack more feasible but can the Al-Ko chassis be fitted with a tow bar with a sufficiently high nose weight?  How do the rear suspensions differ and does this give the Al-Ko handling benefits?  They both appear to have the same waste water tank but no mention is made of the Nuevo+ fresh water tank.  I would be interested to know the benefits of the more expensive Broadway EK over the Nuevo+.  Is it just that the bench seats are slightly longer (Nuevo 4'6", Nuevo+ 5'4" and Broadway 6') and with it the locker space.  Do all of them still come with R15 wheels which can make up-plating harder for the Broadway which has the lowest rear axle loading margin.  I wonder if in time A-S will replace all their chassis with Al-Ko?

the increased payload was the main criteria for us opting for the nuevo+. it has 16inch wheels and handling seems fine. not sure how easy changing a punctured wheel/tyre  will be as there is minimal clearance in wheel arch. one to be checked! the small increase in length allows greater leg stretching in bed.
another prime reason for our choice of nuevo was peace of mind driving legally. 
my previous van was a carthago, which was a splendid van, but i was never certain that i was within 3500kgs.( my legal limit ). the thought of being uninsured in case of an accident was of concern, plus no licence . 
Doug.

doog1948 wrote:the increased payload was the main criteria for us opting for the nuevo+. it has 16inch wheels and handling seems fine. not sure how easy changing a punctured wheel/tyre  will be as there is minimal clearance in wheel arch. one to be checked! the small increase in length allows greater leg stretching in bed.
another prime reason for our choice of nuevo was peace of mind driving legally. 
my previous van was a carthago, which was a splendid van, but i was never certain that i was within 3500kgs.( my legal limit ). the thought of being uninsured in case of an accident was of concern, plus no licence . 
Doug.

That's interesting.  Is it the R16 rather than R15 wheels of the standard Nuevo and equivalent Broadway that might make wheel removal harder?  Does the Nuevo+ still have the underslung spare at the back?  Is its maximum rear axle mass still 2000 kg? What tyres does it come with on the R16 wheels?   

If I carried full water tanks on my Nuevo with the rear bike rack loaded and several days worth of rations my rear axle and one or both of its 109 load rated rear tyres would probably be overloaded, even though the van as a whole wouldn't be overloaded.  I have levelling jacks which increases the load on the rear axle even though I have removed the rear corner steadies.

I saw a dealer sales video of the Nuevo+ which claimed better handling because the Al-Ko chassis and therefore van C of G is lower but I can't see how this can be as the overall height of the vehicle hasn't changed and from the pictures the floor doesn't appear to be any lower.  What rear suspension does it have which might give rise to improved handling?  My standard Nuevo has Peugeot leaf springs without airbags.

can't do any checks at moment. weather a tad inclement. no jacks but still has steadies and spare wheel. there are no leaf springs with the alko chassis. tyres are 225 75 16. michelin agilis cp. i experiment with tyre pressures. currently 55psi front and 65psi back. i try not to travel loaded with water. don't really trust the tank or straps. the ride seems fair given the state of the roads! don't know about axle mass. according to blurb the payload is " estimated " at circa 850kgs............maybe. about 250kgs over the standard nuevo. can't really imagine exceeding this. you can't get much in the van anyway.

not sure of jacking points on this. the alko chassis axle must not be jacked as its basically a hollow tube.............or so i.m told. will have a good look under when weather permits.

Thanks doog1948.  Your 225/75 R16 CP comes with a load index of 116 (1250 kg) or 118 (1320 kg).  Which do you have?  Either way, the load index is a great deal better than the 109 (1030 kg) fitted as standard to my Nuevo (215/70 R15 CP).  I am planning to upgrade these soon to 225/70 R15 CP with a load index of 112 (1120 kg)  This is as high as I can go without changing the rims to R16 which I don't intend to do and may not even fit my Nuevo.  I am surprised they haven't fitted Michelin's CrossClimate Camping tyre which seems to have replaced the Michelin Agilis Camping tyre and should have better traction on grass pitches as well better winter performance.  If you haven't already done so, it's well worthwhile loading your van as you would for a trip and then taking it to weigh bridge to get the axle masses.  From these you can determine the optimum front and rear ETRTO tyre pressures for your tyres.  If you are running your rear CP tyres at 65 psi, it suggests you don't have a TPMS.  Is that right?  The A-S website suggest it does have TPMS.  When you go out check it is a CP and not a C tyre as they are different.

Caraman wrote:I saw a dealer sales video of the Nuevo+ which claimed better handling because the Al-Ko chassis and therefore van C of G is lower but I can't see how this can be as the overall height of the vehicle hasn't changed and from the pictures the floor doesn't appear to be any lower.  

I'm not sure that's correct.  The Alko chassis is more stable because it has a wider rear axle.  We had that on a previous Laika, and I can vouch that the increase in stability is noticeable.  The wider rear axle often comes with a double floor.  

The Alko chassis is usually with the Fiat/Peugeot range.  Fewer Mercedes models with Alko because of RWD, and Mercedes prefer to keep the Sprinter chassis.

That and the increased size of the wheels might also explain why removing the rear wheels is harder on the Nuevo+.  It would also help justify fitting C rather than CP tyres, especially if they have a higher load index.  But doog1948 says his are CP.

the tyres are cp and index of 116. couldn't get an accurate track width of front and  rear. its raining and wheels are wrapped. by using wood blocks on the chassis it looks possible to lift the van. might mean lugging a couple of trees with you! perhaps others have a better idea. don't fancy the rac man turning up and pushing his trolley jack under the axle.

doog1948 wrote:the tyres are cp and index of 116. couldn't get an accurate track width of front and  rear. its raining and wheels are wrapped. by using wood blocks on the chassis it looks possible to lift the van. might mean lugging a couple of trees with you! perhaps others have a better idea. don't fancy the rac man turning up and pushing his trolley jack under the axle.

There must be a way of jacking up a rear wheel.  On the Al-Ko chassis on my caravans a jacking point bracket could be bolted onto the chassis but I never liked using it as the chassis flexed if the scissor jack was not perfectly positioned beneath it.  I positioned axle stands on the chassis stub each wheel was connected to.  Someone with a Corinium should know how it's done. I've read on the Forum that the white plastic rear wheel arch has to be removed to remove a wheel. 

It surprises me that the Nuevo+ has the Michelin Agilis Camping 225/75 R16 116 CP tyre.  As I said before, my 2019 Nuevo and I understand the equivalent Broadway, was supplied with a smaller Continental 215/70 R15 109 CP tyre.  I suspect the rear axle MTPLMs are the same for both Nuevos and the equivalent Broadway - 2000 kg - but that the rear axle mass in running order is significantly less on the Nuevo+ resulting in a lower actual mass in most cases so less need for the higher load index of 116.  Michelin recommend that their Michelin Agilis Camping 225/75 R16 116 CP tyre is inflated to 80 psi on the rear tyres.  If you have a factory fitted TPMS which the Nuevo+ marketing blurb claims it has, I would expect it to be set around the 80 psi as mine is.  In which case, running it at 65 psi would trigger it.  What pressures are shown on the tyre pressure label on the cab door C pillar?

have no tpms fitted on my nuevo ek+. checked label on door frame. 79.5 f+r. tried that when new and never heard such a racket from all over the van. might not be fiat recommended but lowering to 60f +65r seems a great deal more comfortable.
had exactly the same problem with most of our previous vans.
if you are interested or available, we are camping on the ccc site Salisbury 17th -21st Nov. maybe compare notes?

Thanks doog1948.  That settles it.  

You are lucky not to have the TPMS as its a pain to get adjusted and it's expensive when a sensor battery fails.  The A-S Website is clearly wrong when it says the Nuevo+ has "Tyre pressure sensors" as it always has been wrong when it claims "USB and Auxiliary input sockets".  There is no Aux input socket on my Nuevo.  

I was trying to convince myself that because the Al-Ko chassis reputedly has better handling, maybe due to a wider rear track and/or independent torsion bar rear suspension, A-S would have replaced the CP tyre with a C tyre but with a higher load index.  Although they have gone for a higher load index, they have stayed with CP but moved from Continental to Michelin which is what I will be doing shortly with their 4-season Crossclimate tyre which appear to have replaced their summer Agilis Camping tyre.

Nice to hear you are visiting Salisbury.  I will have just returned from a short trip and be around when you are visiting.  I don't want to intrude but can easily walk to the CCC site at a time that suits you.  Perhaps you could send me a PM when you get here and we can fix something up.

will be unable to contact you when camping unless i have your phone number. will not have internet. perhaps pm your number. thanks 
Doug.

Done a bit more digging.  

Anyone who likes the TB LP EK layout has a choice of the 5.7m Nuevo, the Nuevo Plus and the Broadway.  Marquis has told me there are no plans to change these models.  Time will tell but I can't see why anyone would buy the Broadway when they can have a Nuevo Plus which is plenty big enough for two, cheaper and has much higher loading margins, especially on the rear axle where it matters.  However, for someone who wants the shortest van possible, the 5.7m Nuevo maintains its appeal.  

Marquis has said that all three vans now come with asymmetric tread summer M&S Michelin Agilis Camper 225/75 CP tyres fitted on R16 rims.  Their higher load index of 116 removes any risk of the rear tyres being overloaded and allows lower pressures to be used.  Michelin has told me these tyres are no longer being made and have been replaced by their similarly priced all-season M&S Crossclimate Camper, which has a directional tread that might provide better traction.

Marquis has said the Nuevo Plus Al-Ko chassis has rear jacking points that can be used with the Ducato’s scissor jack and there is no need to remove the rear wheel arch to remove a rear wheel.  The Ducato engine fitted to all three vans is 2184 cc 140 bhp.  The  most recent Boxer engine is 1997 cc 160 bhp.  Both are AdBlue Euro 6.  The Ducato is available as an automatic.  A 100W Solar Panel replaces the 80W panel and all the new vans have Apple Play and Android Auto allowing a mobile phone to be used for navigation which in my experience is the best system.  The Nuevo Plus has a completely different rear suspension which Al-Ko claim is superior to the Fiat/Peugeot suspension.  Unlike A-S campervans, neither has semi-air suspension.  Despite what it says on the A-S website, the Nuevo Plus does not have the irksome TPMS.  

It appears A-S has not changed the Fiamma bike rack fixings and as a result restricts the load on the rack from 60 kg to 50 kg which could be a problem for e-bikes.  A tow bar mounted rack risks overloading the rear axle but much less so with the Nuevo Plus.

yammy wrote:

Yes indeed, hadnt really thought about that but i think either a 5.4m or 5.7m would still fit in to a parking space quite easily but a 5.99m is really pushing it. 

I have no difficulty parking my 6.45mtr Bourton in a supermarket car park space - obviously like any other coach built you head for the outer zones where you can see a free space either side. I think so long as your tyres are within the white lines I see nothing to say that is illegal. Obviously you don't want to park with your precious plastic bumper close to a JCB or worse still a BMW parked in the next bay.

doog1948 wrote:the tyres are cp and index of 116. couldn't get an accurate track width of front and  rear. its raining and wheels are wrapped. by using wood blocks on the chassis it looks possible to lift the van. might mean lugging a couple of trees with you! perhaps others have a better idea. don't fancy the rac man turning up and pushing his trolley jack under the axle.

I am sure the RAC man and indeed the AA lady and also the Green Flag person who doesn't know what they are would not jack it up using the axle. All vehicles have jacking points, and assuming they are on some part of the chassis rather than the axle, it would lift the wheel down and away from the arch sufficiently to drop the wheel off. Maybe at an angle, but I would be surprised if they couldn't be got off, that would make no sense at all.

precisely Andrew. i was being flippant. nevertheless i have yet to find the elusive jacking points. they may appear obvious if and when i venture under the jalopy with a magnifying glass.

We always approach carparks that are unfamiliar to us with some trepidation, not knowing if there will be space.  We only go there if the satellite imagery looks promising.  The 5.7m Nuevo's shorter wheelbase (3m) helps with manoeuvring but 5.7m is still too long for most parking bays, unless the rear is able to overhang something.  Width is the main issue which is the same for all A-S coach-builds.

doog1948 wrote:precisely Andrew. i was being flippant. nevertheless i have yet to find the elusive jacking points. they may appear obvious if and when i venture under the jalopy with a magnifying glass.

Sorry if I took you seriously doog. If you can hide under the covers with a torch and read the owner's manual (being a bloke you don't want to be seen doing this) it might be in there. I think that panel vans usually come with a jack with a special load point on the pointy bit that engages with the chassis, and it slots into the vertical part of where the outer skin folds down and joins with the floor pan bit. Your jalopy should have come with a jack, and if you find it you will get the picture. Seek and ye shall find, as The Good Book says. That doesn't mean you will actually be using it, hopefully.