Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
For AS to retrospectively introduce a lower weight limit on a product previously sold under the higher limit and provide a product enhancement that still does not meet the original criteria, would open them to a legal challenge of misleading and unsafe sales practice.
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
Yes, yes and no. They are not reinforcing the void between the inner wall & GRP outer shell. The battens behind the Fiamma mounting bars are secured to the inner wall by the metal bracket that runs the length of each batten. The inner wall & GRP outer shell are also secured to each other in other places e.g. the batten shown in my photo that runs under the kitchen window. If you get under your van and poke a mobile phone as far up the void as you can, you should see something similar even though you don't have a rear kitchen window. The point of failure has been between the outer face of the GRP outer shell and the inner face of the upper Fiamma mounting bar. The modification only seeks to reinforce this area with two through bolts that sandwich the upper mounting bar batten.CC wrote:So to be clear… Are motorhomes going back to Auto-Sleeper to have their Fiamma bike racks modified, are AS fitting those toggles as well as reinforcing the void between the inner wall & GRP outer shell?
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
Caraman- Member
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
John McHale wrote:
For AS to retrospectively introduce a lower weight limit on a product previously sold under the higher limit and provide a product enhancement that still does not meet the original criteria, would open them to a legal challenge of misleading and unsafe sales practice.
See if they care. They have already shrugged off all the other violations and examples of bad workmanship and systems unfit for purpose.
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
marconi wrote:
See if they care. They have already shrugged off all the other violations and examples of bad workmanship and systems unfit for purpose.
The lives of people behind you on the road depend on these two wood screws. The one on the left has already had water ingress past any intended sealant and is rusting, the timber is no doubt deteriorating, there is now less than 15mm of thread into the timber.
PLEASE PLEASE get the "product enhancement" done as soon as possible.
Auto Sleeper won't be letting you know about the problem. Most A/S staff won't know, I was told they do not look at any A/S Goups or Social Media. Marquis told me that they are strictly banned from looking at any Auto Sleeper Groups or Social Media posts. Caraman's van is of the same period as mine and Marquis say there is no re-call for it.
Personally I won't even ask Marquis as I won't go near the place again, neither wii I trust A/S with the "product improvement" due to the incompetence I have experienced, or go near Willersey.
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
It is just for the toggle according to their response, & as previously said it takes an hour to fit at a cost of £126 which I’ll pay, but I do think it’s rather cheeky of AS to charge their customers to rectify something to make it safe because the way they’ve originally fitted it is unsafe, but it is what it is I guess, it really would have been nice if it was like a safety recall & corrected or upgraded at their cost, if it’s only an hours work they could get several through their workshop in a day, they are giving the toggle kits out free of charge to people so to me it seems a bit mean to charge for fitting.
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
Despite the automated queuing system telling me there was only one person a head of me in the queue, it then went onto to tell me due to the volume of calls they are dealing with they are unable to help me & to call back another time, followed by termination of the call!
Oh well back to good old emails, what a way to run a business
I really miss Mark Burdett
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
Obviously 4 bolts as the maunfacturer recommends would be better but Its a pretty good Toggle and bolt arrangement.
To add to the AS picture of "what it would look like if you could see it," this photo is my offside fixing, it rotated a little off horizontal on tightening whereas the nearside one didn't. No problem there though.
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
Not so. The kit can be ordered from the A-S Spares Department at Willersey for £10.75 which includes VAT, p&p, fitting instructions and a guide for the drill bit. As soon as I get home I'll be ordering one. Installation appears straight forward. Even if I have to buy the right size drill bit it will be cheaper and easier to do it myself and I will know then that its done properly. And like Marconi I'll add a load of sealant. Welcome back to the forum Marconi!CC wrote:..... they are giving the toggle kits out free of charge to people so to me it seems a bit mean to charge for fitting.
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
I'll be interested if they tell you the same as John MacHale which is that after the toggle kit has been fitted the rack can take the full 60 kg as per the Fiamma instructions, including if e-bikes are carried on an e-bike rack. The technician I spoke to on the phone at the A-S Service Centre said it would but the lady in reception said it wouldn't.CC wrote:Finally managed to get booked in for the product enhancer for the 23rd July, not convinced how much security it will add to the rack but has to hopefully help, will see what I can find out on the day of fitting.
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
Caraman wrote:Not so. The kit can be ordered from the A-S Spares Department at Willersey for £10.75 which includes VAT, p&p, fitting instructions and a guide for the drill bit. As soon as I get home I'll be ordering one. Installation appears straight forward. Even if I have to buy the right size drill bit it will be cheaper and easier to do it myself and I will know then that its done properly. And like Marconi I'll add a load of sealant. Welcome back to the forum Marconi!CC wrote:..... they are giving the toggle kits out free of charge to people so to me it seems a bit mean to charge for fitting.
....
My mistake I thought I read earlier in the thread they were giving them to people free
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
marconi wrote:Well I feel much better now I have carried out the "enhancement". Hopefully AS will put more than "enough" sealant on the washer (and bolt) so that the water doesn't get in and start to rust the bolts like it did one of my woodcrews. I used enough to sink a ship, I think I am still under 3.5t.
Obviously 4 bolts as the maunfacturer recommends would be better but Its a pretty good Toggle and bolt arrangement.
To add to the AS picture of "what it would look like if you could see it," this photo is my offside fixing, it rotated a little off horizontal on tightening whereas the nearside one didn't. No problem there though.
I’m curious to know what the other end looks like when it’s fitted, still don’t understand fully how this system actually functions… I get that the toggle strengthens the fixing by spreading some of the weight but just not sure how the other end terminates & functions?
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
Caraman- Member
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
CC wrote:
I’m curious to know what the other end looks like when it’s fitted, still don’t understand fully how this system actually functions… I get that the toggle strengthens the fixing by spreading some of the weight but just not sure how the other end terminates & functions?
The pictures in the thread from FB show the rail end.
Basically instead of a couple of short wood screws in the rail which may well pull out of the reinforcing timber we now have a couple of 6mm bolts threaded into the captive nuts in the toggles at the inaccessible end. The bolts pass through the rail, fibreglass panel, reinforcing timber and steel mounting bracket, a large washer is needed under the bolt head so that doesn't pull through the access hole you have to drill for the toggle.
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
Didn't go to AS, got it done at the dealer I bought the van off.Caraman wrote:I'll be interested if they tell you the same as John MacHale which is that after the toggle kit has been fitted the rack can take the full 60 kg as per the Fiamma instructions, including if e-bikes are carried on an e-bike rack. The technician I spoke to on the phone at the A-S Service Centre said it would but the lady in reception said it wouldn't.CC wrote:Finally managed to get booked in for the product enhancer for the 23rd July, not convinced how much security it will add to the rack but has to hopefully help, will see what I can find out on the day of fitting.
...
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
John McHale wrote:Didn't go to AS, got it done at the dealer I bought the van off.Caraman wrote:I'll be interested if they tell you the same as John MacHale which is that after the toggle kit has been fitted the rack can take the full 60 kg as per the Fiamma instructions, including if e-bikes are carried on an e-bike rack. The technician I spoke to on the phone at the A-S Service Centre said it would but the lady in reception said it wouldn't.CC wrote:Finally managed to get booked in for the product enhancer for the 23rd July, not convinced how much security it will add to the rack but has to hopefully help, will see what I can find out on the day of fitting.
...
I would say the actual safe load after AS have been at it is only guesswork. Fiamma's figure will be tested, and for a rack fitted as their instructions. AS dare not state the full figure as their bit of glue and a woodscrew, or the "product enhancement" have most likely never been tested and approved.
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
Good outcome. My toggle kit is on its way. The only 13mm drill bit I had was for masonry so have had to buy a HSS bit for £2 which just fits my chuck. I've downloaded the fitting instructions so I'm ready to go.CC wrote:Just got back home from the Auto-Sleeper service centre, who this morning fitted the ‘Product Enhancer’ & was very pleased with how we were treated, despite being quoted an hours labour they only charged us for half an hour, so we got them to do a damp check which revealed an issue which I won’t go into in this thread, so with the bike rack upgrade & the damp check it came in well under the price quoted for the product enhancer alone so more than happy with that… Tim the workshop technician showed me the toggle & how it does its job, they also weight & stress tested our bike rack before fitting the product enhancer & it showed it was securely fixed even without the upgrade, happier now I know it’s been done anyway, a very good experience.
Did Tim say anything about the load restrictions? Is it 60 kg excluding the rack, 60 kg including the rack, 50 kg excluding the rack or 50 kg including the rack?
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
Might be my imagination but got the impression he didn’t want to get into weight limits etc… I commented that the rack should be ok for carrying 50kg safely now & he just answered yes before moving onto something else, so I never really got a concrete reassurance to be honest.
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Re: Fiamma Bike Rack Failure
Glad it's sorted, and that AS behaved as of old.
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