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Post by Wigley Woggled Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:39 am

For what it's worth ...
I ride a bike occasionally on my own and have no problem doing so. Incredibly, I manage to avoid pot holes and sunken grids!

There is definitely a problem with cyclists selfish attitude.

It's natural to hunt out quiet country lanes but these are narrow, as are many of our main roads, and not suitable for riding two abreast yet they insist they have a right to dominate the road for their own safety.
Most will be car drivers yet when on their bikes it's like they wear blinkers oblivious to the mayhem they cause behind. All I wish for is that they give consideration to other road users and ride single file preferably in small groups with spaces between each group. Our roads in general are just not suitable for two abreast riding. Any rider two abreast or single file has to avoid potholes, etc.

Out for a leisurely bike ride with friends ? No, they go out to race as if they were aiming for the yellow jersey! Perhaps there should be a speed limit for cyclist of 15mph which would help motorists get past more quickly and safely.

Riding safely concentrating on the road ahead ? No, they talk to each other while racing along often shouting over the road traffic noise to be heard, and that's riding with due care and attention ?

They have little regard or care of other road users. They don't contribute in taxes and aren't insured for when they cause accidents. In cities they weave in and out creeping up on the inside out of nowhere and risking their own lives often resulting in death or injury.

Did I mention pavements ? You know, those raised paths obviously intended for cycle use scattering people as they go. We have a Shared Space road scheme in our village so they often weave in and out of shoppers on the pavement.

Strangely perhaps I find off road track riders (mountain bikes) a lot more considerate and less troublesome. It's that other deadly breed that think they are in the 'Tour de Britannia' or at the local Velodrome and seem hell bent on giving themselves a bad name.

Even on dedicated cycleways the lady cyclist with 'sit up and beg' handlebars and wicker basket better watch out for the 'Boy (girl) Racer' coming up rapidly behind !

The law and Highway Code must be changed.


Or is it the current state of our selfish society where people believe they have a right to do whatever they want to do and to hell with anybody else?
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Post by bikeralw Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:31 pm

Yesterday coming down the hill from the moors in the car I passed a group of Lycra clad cyclists doing about 45mph, obviously on a timed mission. As we entered town and slowed to the 30mph limit they were inches from the back of the car for a mile or so. On reaching the red traffic lights they sailed past me and several cars in front and through the junction without stopping..
Ok, it's a quiet junction that's only there to allow access to a new housing development, but I thought traffic light rules applied to all road users.
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Post by gassygassy Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:57 pm

B181 wrote:........
I don’t really know that there is a straightforward solution other than something radical like miles and miles of dedicated cycle paths.  .........
The actual solution would be for this country to adopt the laws they have in The Netherlands, i.e. that cyclists have prior Right of Way and all vehicles have to give way to them . . . . and to go along with that, every road must have a dedicated cycle area, either a separate cycle path or be wide enough to accommodate a cyclist's area. It is fabulous cycling in Holland. You come to a road junction and all the traffic, HGVs, buses, cars all stop to let you go. If we had those laws, PLUS the Police to enforce them, our nation would be a lot fitter and there would be far fewer cars on the roads.
However, that solution isn't going to happen, it would be a vote loser.
Having said that I can't remember what a group of cyclists do in Holland. I think they just use the cycle paths next to the roads, or if they do go out in groups on a country road they go in single file.
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Post by RML Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:43 pm

Here's an idea ....let's all knock cyclists.  
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Post by bikeralw Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:28 pm

RML wrote:Here's an idea ....let's all knock cyclists.  
Rich..
But the thread is about cyclists...
However I'll knock any road user who blatantly assumes the rules don't apply to them, thereby putting others at risk, and that includes motorcyclists of which I'm one.
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Post by RML Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:45 pm

bikeralw wrote:
RML wrote:Here's an idea ....let's all knock cyclists.  
Rich..
But the thread is about cyclists...
However I'll knock any road user who blatantly assumes the rules don't apply to them, thereby putting others at risk, and that includes motorcyclists of which I'm one.
Al.
Point taken, thank you. 
What I would like to ask anyone interested is - over the course of a normal year, covering their average mileage how long and over what distance has anybody been truly disadvantaged by cyc!ists?  I recon I've been held up, in total,  for several minutes over a distance of less than a mile or 2 maximum, not bad for an average of 7to10k miles and I'm including Spain where many pro teams spend the winter.  Most days out I don't see any, especially doing longer distances on major roads. 
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Post by gassygassy Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:55 pm

When I go out cycling I avoid the main roads, as I think most cyclists do. I go alone, partly because I am Billy No Mates but mostly because I am not fit enough to be in any sort of cycling club. I can (or could before I got an old Eriba Puck caravan to restore) if I really put some effort into it manage 35 miles in a day but then I come home and collapse. Proper cyclists do 100 miles then stop for lunch and another 100 back home.
I agree with Rich, you don't get held up much but it can seem annoying when you approach cyclists side-by-side when you could have passed them if they were single file but as he says it doesn't impede your life by very much.
I have been impressed when on A roads how courteous most, in fact all HGV drivers are. The vast majority hang back until it is safe to pass on the other side of the road. I've never been blown into the ditch by one. I was puffing along holding up one, who could in reality have passed, and as soon as I got to a bit of road where I could pull over into a farm gate inlet I did so and waved the lorry by. He gave me a friendly toot as he went past. My attitude is that I am retired, I have all day, he is out doing his job earning his living so I am not going to obstruct him.
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Post by Weegie Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:50 pm

gassygassy wrote:.... you don't get held up much but it can seem annoying when you approach cyclists side-by-side when you could have passed them if they were single file... 

I tried not to pop back in to this thread, I really did, but,..

Several posters have mentioned this scenario. When overtaking cyclists you should give them as much room as you would a car (H/C 163, 212 & 213), therefore, it should be completely irrelevant to your overtaking manoeuvre whether the cyclists are single file or two abreast. In fact, two abreast means they'll be shorter front to back, making overtaking easier, if you do it properly.

If you're not fully across the white line overtaking, then you're at fault, not the cyclist(s).
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Post by Caraman Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:56 am

Cyclists should stick to minor roads as I do.  If they cycle two a breast on this type of road, vehicles are not be able to get past them safely.  Indeed in some cases on-coming vehicles may even have to slow down.  However, if they cycle in file a vehicle can overtake them safely especially, if they pull over and allow a space between them.  This is common sense and considerate use of the road.
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Post by Caraman Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:26 am

I've just looked again at what it says in the Highway Code:

drivers should give, ‘as much room as you would give a car’.

No minimum distance is given between the overtaking vehicle and cyclist or indeed between an overtaking vehicle and another vehicle.  No minimum distance is given between two approaching vehicles either.

So if I consider at the speed I am travelling it is safe to leave a gap of say 1 metre when overtaking a car, the same must apply if I'm overtaking a cyclist or have I got that wrong?  Note that in many cases vehicle approaching each other at speed pass within a metre of each other.
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Post by Askit Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:09 am

Caraman, it appears the HC had proposals for updating guidance in 2020 relating to overtaking cyclists. The advice is 1.5m @ up to 30mph, 2m at over 30mph and 2m at all times in a large vehicle.

https://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/why-we-need-minimum-safe-overtaking-distances-highway-code

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Post by Caraman Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:33 am

Askit wrote:Caraman, it appears the HC had proposals for updating guidance in 2020 relating to overtaking cyclists. The advice is 1.5m @ up to 30mph, 2m at over 30mph and 2m at all times in a large vehicle.

https://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/why-we-need-minimum-safe-overtaking-distances-highway-code
Thanks.  This seems a very sensible approach.
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Post by gassygassy Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:46 pm

Apart from overtaking cyclists, who on here knows (without looking it up) of five occasions when it is legal to cross the solid white line in the middle of the road? I once heard of a Policeman who, scalding a driver, said you should treat the white line like a brick wall, if you ever cross it, that is an offence.
It just shows that this particular Policeman didn't know the law very well.
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Post by Caraman Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:30 pm

gassygassy wrote:Apart from overtaking cyclists, who on here knows (without looking it up) of five occasions when it is legal to cross the solid white line in the middle of the road? I once heard of a Policeman who, scalding a driver, said you should treat the white line like a brick wall, if you ever cross it, that is an offence.
It just shows that this particular Policeman didn't know the law very well.
I haven't looked it up but as a starter for 10 - when there is an obstacle or very slow moving vehicle in front - could that be a cyclist?  This is a bit like QI!
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Post by gassygassy Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:23 pm

You are specifically permitted to cross the white line to overtake a cyclist. That is one . . .
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Post by PLOUGHLIN Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:14 pm

gassygassy wrote:You are specifically permitted to cross the white line to overtake a cyclist. That is one . . .

Only if it travelling at 10mph or less, so no chance with a MAMIL. hugegrins

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Post by Caraman Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:37 pm

I think someone has been looking up the answer!  Cyclists - Page 4 1f600
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Post by gassygassy Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:49 pm

It's one of the questions I was asked during my AIM motorcycle test.
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Post by PLOUGHLIN Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:56 pm

Caraman wrote:I think someone has been looking up the answer!  Cyclists - Page 4 1f600

No, doesn't everyone know when you can cross a solid line?

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Post by Askit Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:10 pm

PLOUGHLIN wrote:
Caraman wrote:I think someone has been looking up the answer!  Cyclists - Page 4 1f600

No, doesn't everyone know when you can cross a solid line?

Yes of course, the answer is when nobody is watching  biggrin

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Post by Paulmold Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:10 pm

PLOUGHLIN wrote:
gassygassy wrote:You are specifically permitted to cross the white line to overtake a cyclist. That is one . . .

Only if it travelling at 10mph or less, so no chance with a MAMIL. hugegrins
As far as I'm aware, you can cross a continual white line when any vehicle is travelling at less than 10mph.

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Post by PLOUGHLIN Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:28 pm

Paulmold wrote:
PLOUGHLIN wrote:
gassygassy wrote:You are specifically permitted to cross the white line to overtake a cyclist. That is one . . .

Only if it travelling at 10mph or less, so no chance with a MAMIL. hugegrins
As far as I'm aware, you can cross a continual white line when any vehicle is travelling at less than 10mph.

Correct or if it is a horse. One other time you can cross not related to speed?

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Post by gassygassy Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:37 pm

Paulmold wrote:
PLOUGHLIN wrote:
gassygassy wrote:You are specifically permitted to cross the white line to overtake a cyclist. That is one . . .

Only if it travelling at 10mph or less, so no chance with a MAMIL. hugegrins
As far as I'm aware, you can cross a continual white line when any vehicle is travelling at less than 10mph.
That's another one, when overtaking a slow moving agricultural vehicle.
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Post by Slaphead Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:39 pm

A breakdown?

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Post by Paulmold Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:12 pm

PLOUGHLIN wrote:
Paulmold wrote:
PLOUGHLIN wrote:

Only if it travelling at 10mph or less, so no chance with a MAMIL. hugegrins
As far as I'm aware, you can cross a continual white line when any vehicle is travelling at less than 10mph.

Correct or if it is a horse. One other time you can cross not related to speed?
Or to access another road.

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