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Obsolete hifi

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Post by steamdrivenandy Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:22 am

groundhog wrote:
steamdrivenandy wrote:GH you're a Jonah!!!!

I managed to get a CD to play about 30 minutes ago and was happily listening to Track 5 and was about 5min 50 secs through it and just reading your post and the darn thing cut off and went to the end screen where it reads Track 16 74:16 and not a peep. The unit that's giving me problems is a Denon UD-M31. It displays the names on the left above the CD drawer.
Sorry but mine is completely different shame as you could have had it

Apologies for not responding sooner GH, Thanks for trying, it was a kind thought.

I took the case off the other day and was surprised how little dust was evident, given that it's 18 years old. I didn't remove the plastic covers with dire warnings on that are over the CD mechanism as I was scared off by the warnings and couldn't see how there'd be much dust in there given the cover and the lack of it in the rest of the internals.

I've tried to use the machine quite a bit over the last few days and the problems seem very random. Some CD's play immediately, some play after a wipe in the prescribed manner and others play after I've blown hard into the CD slot. I've not come across one that won't, eventually, play at all. When the CD's won't play they show differing read outs on the screen of the player. Some try to work, but end up with track number 00 and time 0000 displaying and others with just track number 99 and the time area totally blank. Yet others you can hear the motor moving, but nothing happens at all and it would presumably keep going like that forever.
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Post by rogerblack Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:12 am


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Post by HairyFool Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:32 am

The label is a standard requirement for all class 2 laser devices even if the safety is not that big an issue. The fact that the drive is boxed at all is indicative of its age, most modern ones are open frame inside the case. The laser will not activate unless you close the drive which finds and indexes the disk or play it. Even then your eye has to be right above it, the laser is not powerful enough to damage any other tissue.

The fault you describe is very indicative of a sticking laser sled. The other possibility is the "lens" mount. It's not a true lens because you cannot focus a laser, its a prism mounted in a foam block that tilts to track the data. This foam can break down over age in which case needs a entire new pickup.
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Post by gassygassy Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:36 pm

I keep wondering about my setup. I have a Linn Sonndek which I bought in about 1985 with appropriate power supply, arm, cartridge and power supply. A Linn Majik amplifier, and a Nakamichi DR2 cassette deck. I have a more modern Bose box with 7 speakers dotted around the ceiling. I don't think much of it. I bought it in Miami without realising that it only plays USA region CDs (region 1, and we in Europe are Region 2) - so that's not a lot of good but it does have a tuner and amplifier.
The record deck appears to be selling for about £2500 on ebay, the Nakamichi tape deck is quite incredible to look into, everything is solid metal and has been ground to size. All the Linn stuff fetches good money.
The trouble is I have tinnitus and loss of high frequency hearing so all this top quality stuff is wasted. However I can't bring myself to part with it! I have about 200 LPs. Currently I can't play anything anyway because The Boss's mother sits in her armchair in front of the cabinet with it all in.
I can't bear to part with the LPs - they all have a story. Most of them I can remember when and where I bought them - in the days when you did a paper round to earn enough money to buy an LP once a month. You don't get that with a CD. As for the current way to buy music - whatever it is, I have never found out -  why would you buy it anyway when it's all free on the internet? We respected our music because it took a long time to save up and buy it. Now, music is as disposable as a McDonald's paper bag and has the same value.
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Post by HairyFool Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:55 pm

I have always thought Bose was somewhat overinflated. They sound "good" because they tune the output of the amplifier to suit the cabinet and speaker, either on their own to reference devices and they are awful.

The Linns are beyond reproach of course and the Nakamichi tape deck was the base to which any other manufacturer aspired to, even Philips who developed the system in the 1st place. The icing on the cake would be the speakers but you don't mention them.

I did get rid of my LPs and have regretted it ever since so I would strongly recommend avoiding that option. Too long DJing ( and a RR Spey backfiring above my head ) mean I have lost the top end of my hearing but still have to have music playing all day. Everything from a day decorating Friday to Classic FM to laying down after cooking Easter roast lamb dinner right now typing this to Blondie, Union City Blues 8 minute Remix.

Albums are an artistic construct that goes beyond the sum of the individual tracks. A lot of artists are now realising this and have stopped releasing individual tracks but insist on a complete set to release in one go. More than one has gone to vinyl BEFORE releasing digital.
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Post by steamdrivenandy Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:24 pm

Just got my errant system to play The Queen Symphony by Tolga Kashif played by the RPO, fabulous sound. And earlier I had to stop typing as I listened to Dark Side of the Moon for the umpteenth thousandth time and still heard things I'd not noticed before.
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Post by gassygassy Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:56 am

Ooh Dark Side of the Moon. When I had some decent Ruark loudspeakers I could just float away on a cloud.
Probably my Most Fi record is Angel of Harlem (U2) on a 12" 45prm record. I could swear I could see the footprints of the individual members of the group in my carpet. I don't have anythign like that with the small ceiling mounted Bose speakers. It does have a big bass box which includes the amplifier of course.
I hesitate to think of getting some floor mounted speakers. Every time I mutter something I want, and of course she doesn't, I get confronted with "yes you can have that and I'm getting a dog". Well that would pretty well put paid to motorhoming. I know some people do, and I don't begrudge you your choice, but I would find that a burden trying to accommodate a dog and all its needs in a motorhome.
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Post by shipbadger Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:22 am

Gassygassy said 'I bought it in Miami without realising that it only plays USA region CDs (region 1, and we in Europe are Region 2)'


You may be lucky and find that a search of the internet reveals how to get your player to work with other regions.  I have a couple of DVD players which on delivery would only work with European discs but found ways on the internet of allowing me to also watch American Railroad DVDs.

Apparently the idea of the regions was to prevent people buying CD/DVDs from low cost areas and importing them into wealthier parts of the world.

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Post by HairyFool Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:36 am

I did toy with the idea of going back to vinyl so was looking at turntables.

I was struck by the number that had Bluetooth confused3 . I can see it would allow it to connect to BT speakers but surely the idea is that vinyl is pure analogue reproduction. Spend out on an analogue solution to promptly convert it to digital confused0
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Post by gassygassy Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:53 am

Shipbadger Thanks, I did look for that a couple of years back, it was a long series of press this that and the other and stand on one leg in a bucket of water - type of thing. It didn't work - but that was only once, I must have another go at it.

HairyFool I suppose you remember the 'special cable' you Must Have to connect speakers to the amplifier? 'Zero Oxygen' cables costing an arm and a leg. And the 'Directional' cables with arrows pointing towards the loudspeaker. Which word in the phrase "Alternating Current" didn't they understand? (the gullible people who fell for that rubbish, not the clever marketing sales people who made it). I recall that the HiFi magazines reckoned that regular 2.5 T&E mains wiring cable was the best.
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Post by HairyFool Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:12 am

And the hundreds of pounds of integrated hifi from Sony et al which came with Bell wire speaker cable and dedicated plugs so you can't use anything else.

I used to work in an audio repair and I was told of someone who made "hifi" 4 way plug extensions by buying cheap off the shelf ones and soldering the cable at either end. Charged 4 times the buy in price and sold hundreds of them.

I never did buy into the OFC cable waffle but when CDs came in you could easily tell the difference. Was one better than the other is a moot point but they were not the same.

Another regret is I had a genuine metal cased Sony Walkman Cassette player, worth a mint now.

I suspect we could all think of something thrown away in the past that should have been kept.
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Post by rogerblack Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:54 am

gassygassy wrote:.
.
.

HairyFool I suppose you remember the 'special cable' you Must Have to connect speakers to the amplifier? 'Zero Oxygen' cables costing an arm and a leg. And the 'Directional' cables with arrows pointing towards the loudspeaker. Which word in the phrase "Alternating Current" didn't they understand? (the gullible people who fell for that rubbish, not the clever marketing sales people who made it). I recall that the HiFi magazines reckoned that regular 2.5 T&E mains wiring cable was the best.
I remember accompanying a HiFihead* colleague to a home music equipment exhibition at a hotel near Heathrow airport years ago, where all the major suppliers were demonstrating kit in different rooms over several floors.  

At the time, the big thing was to spend a fortune eliminating 'cable crackle' - that always stuck in my mind! 

* like a petrolhead but . . .

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Post by nuevoboy Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:28 pm

I went to a few of those exhibitions way back when and the oddest one was a chap saying that the screw slots on all home door hinges had to be vertical, otherwise the sound would be degraded!

I had the Linn Sondek and "upgraded" when I won a Pink Triangle Anniversary turntable with SME V arm.
My hearing started going off about 10 years ago and got to the stage when I couldn't identify any track, or even vocalist on any music.

I finally sold the turntable set up for over a grand and soon realised the arm itself was worth over that.
In the end it all went including my collection of all ** 600 + vinyl LP's. I could still tell you where each one was bought and I've even got an index book listing how much I paid for each one, complete with track listing including star ratings for my favourite ones.

Do I regret it? No, apart from family it was the biggest part of my life, but when you can't enjoy music, there's no point.

I bought private hearing aids for £3,600 with some of the money and although we've been trying to tweak a music setting, it's still no good.


** I've kept three vinyl albums for now, one of which last sold for over £1,800 but I'm not divulging which it is.
And if you're after some wonderful solid-core speaker cable for bi-wiring or even bi-amping, give us a shout. hugegrins
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Post by HairyFool Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:02 pm

Among the Vinyl I sold was the Beatles White double, complete with the photographs

Stevie Wonder, Songs in the Key of Life including the A Somethings Extra EP.

King Crimson, In the Court of the Crimson King. The original 1969 pressing (later issues were from pre mixed tapes and noticeably poorer)

Tangerine Dream, Ricochet. Side two was recorded primarily from a concert I went to at Fairfield Halls, Croydon (so I am in the cheering at the end)

Black Sabbath, Paranoid. The pressing was quite poor and the opening chord of War Pigs  had a pre echo where the chord could be picked up on the side of the Groove on the turn before on the disk. It wasn't until I heard it on CD that I realised that the echo wasn't supposed to be there. 

Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture, complete with genuine sound effects from French smooth bore bronze cannon and musket fire. The 1st time I heard this was in Germany where the Royal Artillery had two tracked howitzers in the car park behind the concert hall to provide the effects. Rattled the Windows a bit hugegrins
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Post by gassygassy Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:05 pm

HairyFool wrote:

Another regret is I had a genuine metal cased Sony Walkman Cassette player, worth a mint now.


I've got a Sony Professional Stereo Walkman - is that the one you are talking about? It is hardly used, I used to sit at work doing overtime after hours listening to it. This was in an electronics research and development lab and my colleagues couldn't believe the sound quality from it.
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Post by gassygassy Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:13 pm

I've got a few LPs which are theoretically worth a few bob. You can learn a lot from ebay, eg how to tell which of your several Revolver albums were pressed at Decca - the company that turned the Beatles down. EMI ran their presses 24hrs a day and couldn't keep up with demand. The LP got into the top ten singles chart.
My most interesting set is of Beethoven's 5th piano concerto, and listening to them all in sequence (including a CD), the best fidelity and performance I have is from a 1957 recording on an LP.
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Post by HairyFool Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:18 pm

The L2 came out in 1979 and a mid blue colour

Obsolete hifi - Page 2 Walkma10

The case lid and back were pressed steel whereas the cheaper copies were plastic. I used mine so much I wore the bearings out.

Obsolete hifi - Page 2 Walkma11


This should be your Pro
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Post by bikeralw Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:18 pm

All this talk of new-fangled music formats has got me thinking maybe it's time I upgraded..Obsolete hifi - Page 2 20210410
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Post by gassygassy Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:23 pm

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Post by gassygassy Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:28 pm

HairyFool wrote:The L2 came out in 1979 and a mid blue colour

Obsolete hifi - Page 2 Walkma10

The case lid and back were pressed steel whereas the cheaper copies were plastic. I used mine so much I wore the bearings out.

Obsolete hifi - Page 2 Walkma11


This should be your Pro
Yes, that's mine only it's not worn like that one.
Ebay has them at greatly varying prices . . .
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Post by Roopert Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:30 pm

bikeralw wrote:All this talk of new-fangled music formats has got me thinking maybe it's time I upgraded..Obsolete hifi - Page 2 20210410

When my Dad passed away we had no choice but to sell his cherished Tandberg reel-to-reel. It needed work to get running again (which I did myself) but it's just too archaic a format to be practical, with all the rewinding, and noting the counter so that you know roughly where the tracks start (and remembering to zero the counter when you started!). He also had a Cossor which was very very much like that Philips - even down to the "magic eye" - so it must have been made under licence, I guess. But that one didn't outlive him.

When I sold my vinyl, the LPs that got the most money on Ebay were the ones that I didn't expect to. Our copy of The White Album (with photos) didn't get anywhere near as much as the two LPs by Caravan! Though admittedly the Caravan vinyl was near-pristine and the White Album wasn't!
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Post by Askit Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:26 pm

I was a bit shocked when I saw the prices on old vinyl in a shop in Keswick, think the guy was chancing his arm with most starting at £40. We've got a few interesting LPs but none of our stuff is in pristine condition because we played it all and played it often. No matter because I guess the Boots speaker cable I used (well, still use winks ) means I'm a philistine when it comes to music quality anyway hugegrins

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Post by Dave 418 Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:32 pm

A guy that worked for my farther bought me a mini reel to reel tape recorder when I was in senior school, 60,s. Nothing special but I had great fun with it. Sadly I couldn’t get spare reels for it so it was a limited to what I could record.
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Post by Peter Brown Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:39 pm

Dave 418 wrote:A guy that worked for my farther bought me a mini reel to reel tape recorder when I was in senior school, 60,s. Nothing special but I had great fun with it. Sadly I couldn’t get spare reels for it so it was a limited to what I could record.

A friend at school was raised by his grandparents who doted on him and he wanted for nothing. Age 12 he was given a mini reel to reel. It developed a fault and I took it home one night to repair (can't remember what the problem was but I fixed it). That nights homework was to learn Archimedes Principle. I recorded it and played it back all night. Even now... Archimedes Principle states that a body when wholly or partially immersed in a fluid (liquid or gas) then the up thrust or apparent loss in weight is equal to the weight of the fluid displaced.
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Post by gassygassy Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:46 pm

Peter Brown wrote:
Dave 418 wrote:A guy that worked for my farther bought me a mini reel to reel tape recorder when I was in senior school, 60,s. Nothing special but I had great fun with it. Sadly I couldn’t get spare reels for it so it was a limited to what I could record.

A friend at school was raised by his grandparents who doted on him and he wanted for nothing.  Age 12 he was given a mini reel to reel.  It developed a fault and I took it home one night to repair (can't remember what the problem was but I fixed it).  That nights homework was to learn Archimedes Principle.  I recorded it and played it back all night.  Even now... Archimedes Principle states that a body when wholly or partially immersed in a fluid (liquid or gas) then the up thrust or apparent loss in weight is equal to the weight of the fluid displaced.
...But did it make you immediately jump into a bath and notice that it overflowed down through the bathroom floorboards into the kitchen below?
When I was 15 I had an Elizabethan tape recorder for my birthday. It wasn't bad, it had 4 tracks and 3 speeds and a 'dub' feature whereby it could record over a previous recording without erasing it. I would record a Beatles LP, then record it over again and I achieved a lovely echo effect, when either the record player or tape recorder drifted its speed a bit. I borrowed a Leonard Cohen LP from a friend. I copied it on to tape and as I shared a  bedroom with my brother I would wear headphones and Leonard would soon put me to sleep, drone drone drone Suzanne bores me to death snore snore. About 1:30am I would wake up because the headphones were annoying and the tape recorder would be going click click click click click.
This was the beginning of my interest in audio and electronics. I noticed that my Beatles LP had the first line of the first song very faintly on the 'in' groove and couldn't work out why. I did mean to write to Parlaphone to ask why. I think if I had, and I would explain my age and electronics interest they would have invited me to the studio to see how they did things. I now know of course the reason for the intro on the in groove: the master wax disc would have been softened by the heated cutting stylus and because Beatles records had 12 tracks to a side, the grooves all had to be very close together so that one groove being cut would have an effect on the previously cut one.
And yes I do know that there are only two grooves on a record, but you know what I mean. I  opened up the back of our TV and soldered a two core cable with a jack plug on the end, to the loudspeaker terminals. Then I recorded Top of the Pops at a reasonable quality. Thus I didn't need to go and buy singles.
Later in my life, at Tech College a fellow student worked in a recording studio in London and he invited me there to see the kit. Very impressive. At the time I was working for the GPO designing and developing the first modems that were used in this country. Later in life I did a bit of work at Rockfield Studios in the middle of nowhere, with cctv cameras all down the drive giving the incumbent group a chance to hide all the drugs when there was a raid. I set up a Hammond organ and Leslie speaker for XTC but didn't hear them perform. It was the first time I had encountered a sprung floor, multi multi track recording and monitor loudspeakers which were built by enclosing one loudspeaker box inside another with dry sand in the void between the two.
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