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Help flat batteries

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Post by Caraman Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:38 pm

I haven't proved that no solar charge will reach the vehicle battery if the red isolation button is pressed so I only have Sergent's word on it.   Clearly if the battery is disconnected no charge will reach it.  The 2018 A-S motorhome manual and the later Harmony manual do not say anything about the solar charge when the EC700 is shutdown.  All the 2018 motorhome manual says for the EC500, where the solar charge all goes to the leisure battery when the EC500 is shutdown, is:

"Peugeot recommend that if the vehicle is going to be parked up for a long period that vehicle electrical system is switched off at the battery isolating switch. ........ To maintain the vehicle battery in good condition it is recommended that it is fully charged prior to storage and then recharged every 3 months. ......"

A-S also recommend flushing the water system at least every 3 months.  This suggests that the maximum time a motorhome should be left without TLC is 3 months.  The TLC should also include moving it so the pressure on the tyres isn't always in the same place.
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Post by glyne lock Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:20 pm

Caraman wrote:

A-S also recommend flushing the water system at least every 3 months.  This suggests that the maximum time a motorhome should be left without TLC is 3 months.  The TLC should also include moving it so the pressure on the tyres isn't always in the same place.
its getting close to this that A/S have had my van so well they do this for me hugegrins
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Post by Caraman Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:28 pm

glyne lock wrote:
Caraman wrote:

A-S also recommend flushing the water system at least every 3 months.  This suggests that the maximum time a motorhome should be left without TLC is 3 months.  The TLC should also include moving it so the pressure on the tyres isn't always in the same place.
its getting close to this that A/S have had my van so well they do this for me hugegrins
I think on another thread you said they had let your batteries go flat presumably because they hadn't shut anything down.  Clearly they are not practising what they preach which I assume is a discussion you will be having with them  up!
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Post by glyne lock Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:42 pm

they are going to need to do a lot and that's not just  talking as they have been doing
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Post by inspiredron Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:42 pm

Don't forget that switching off or disconnecting the vehicle battery will disable the van alarm. That will invalidate your theft insurance if the insurer specified an alarm as necessary or if your "Statement of particulars" says that an alarm is fitted.

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Post by Caraman Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:15 am

inspiredron wrote:Don't forget that switching off or disconnecting the vehicle battery will disable the van alarm. That will invalidate your theft insurance if the insurer specified an alarm as necessary or if your "Statement of particulars" says that an alarm is fitted.
Agreed which means the only option is to hope that the 80W solar panel can keep the vehicle battery at a reasonable SOC.  I am told that my Cobra alarm consumes 16mA when armed.  I don't know what the vehicle electrics consume and nor do A-S, Sergent, Peugeot UK or my local Peugeot dealer.  I was going to try and measure it but was spooked by all by cabling etc on top of the battery.  I read somewhere that it might be around 25mA but I have no idea if that's true.
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Post by mikethebike Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:03 am

It is accepted that up to  50 mA is ok. Soon with better weather your solar panel will cover it.

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Post by Slaphead Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:01 pm

Caraman wrote:
inspiredron wrote:Don't forget that switching off or disconnecting the vehicle battery will disable the van alarm. That will invalidate your theft insurance if the insurer specified an alarm as necessary or if your "Statement of particulars" says that an alarm is fitted.
Agreed which means the only option is to hope that the 80W solar panel can keep the vehicle battery at a reasonable SOC.  I am told that my Cobra alarm consumes 16mA when armed.  I don't know what the vehicle electrics consume and nor do A-S, Sergent, Peugeot UK or my local Peugeot dealer.  I was going to try and measure it but was spooked by all by cabling etc on top of the battery.  I read somewhere that it might be around 25mA but I have no idea if that's true.


If your van was stolen because your alarm was not working, due to the battery not being connected, how would the fact the alarm had been disabled ever come to light?

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Post by Caraman Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:03 pm

Good point.
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Post by Peter Brown Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:06 pm

If you don't follow the manufacturers advice to switch off and disconnect for a modern van whilst it is in storage, the batteries will go flat and eventually nothing will work and you'll probably have to buy new batteries.
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Post by Jamie D Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:42 pm

Our van is in secure storage too - along with many other Motorhomes - both batteries removed and are being charged at home. In no rush to refit.
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Post by bolero boy Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:04 pm

So, is the alarm/immobiliser/tracker all disabled?

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Post by marconi Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:41 pm

bolero boy wrote:So, is the alarm/immobiliser/tracker all disabled?

The Tracker should be running on its Internal Battery. They say that it should be changed every 4 years, whether removing its external source of power means it will got flat or go flat sooner who knows.
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Post by Jamie D Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:16 pm

bolero boy wrote:So, is the alarm/immobiliser/tracker all disabled?
Yep, everything is out. Vehicle locked and it won’t start without a battery.
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Post by glyne lock Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:39 pm

Jamie D wrote:
bolero boy wrote:So, is the alarm/immobiliser/tracker all disabled?
Yep, everything is out. Vehicle locked and it won’t start without a battery.
so I can just put my jump pack in your batteries place as any criminal can so that will not stop your vehicle getting started
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Post by mikethebike Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:32 pm

Jamie's Van is in secure storage the same as mine. Very difficult to get in and many others worth more as well  in there.
Still have other security as well.
So risk is very low.

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Post by Jamie D Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:42 am

glyne lock wrote:
Jamie D wrote:
bolero boy wrote:So, is the alarm/immobiliser/tracker all disabled?
Yep, everything is out. Vehicle locked and it won’t start without a battery.
so I can just put my jump pack in your batteries place as any criminal can so that will not stop your vehicle getting started
I agree with you but the thieves would need to get inside the storage unit to do this. At this time during the Pandemic, I still prefer to leave the motorhome in secure storage without its batteries than with. I think it’s more likely the thieves would choose a newer and more valuable motorhome than mine in the secure lockup. To me, the motorhome is far safer in the lockup, than parked on the drive with, or even without, the vehicle and leisure batteries.
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Post by malc45 Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:49 pm

Hello all.

With all that's been said about fitting and removing starter batteries and shown in a video in an earlier post, could someone please
explain what is the reason is for the small red plastic piece that is fixed onto the wire connecting plate and screwed into the battery case
with self tapping screws. My Symbol has also a plastic one similar at the negative end but grey also held with self tapping screws into the battery
case.
My only thought is it fixes the wire connection plates in a position which prevent them rotating and touching the metal sides or I may be wrong.
I don't feel like drilling a new battery for the self tapping screws though.

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Post by Jamie D Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:18 pm

malc45 wrote:Hello all.

With all that's been said about fitting and removing starter batteries and shown in a video in an earlier post, could someone please
explain what is the reason is for the small red plastic piece that is fixed onto the wire connecting plate and screwed into the battery case
with self tapping screws. My Symbol has also a plastic one similar at the negative end but grey also held with self tapping screws into the battery
case.
My only thought is it fixes the wire connection plates in a position which prevent them rotating and touching the metal sides or I may be wrong.
I don't feel like drilling a new battery for the self tapping screws though.

Malc.
The red and grey plastic strips/screws secure the (electrical) top plates, straight forward to unscrew and simply lift off plates - no need to unbolt anything else apart from the battery restraint and the positive and negative terminals to remove the battery.
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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:49 pm

so here is an update. we retrieved the vehicle battery and it sits in the garage and has been charged back up to 12.8v successfully. We will return it to the motorhome when lockdown is lifted and we can then take it for runs each week. 

the leisure battery flattened down to 4.5v the day after we removed the vehicle battery. we bought this one home and charged it successfully to 13.3v. 

We put it back in the moho on Tuesday. We ensured the EC700 was switched off. Today the battery is reading 12.7v. On average it seems to be dropping around 0.1 or 0.2v per day.  At this rate we will need to remove the battery again on Monday, bring it home and charge it up again.

I am still slightly confused as to which battery is running the tracker - the handbook says leisure and the app seems to be confirming that. I am assuming the alarm is off the vehicle battery. 

if we keep the battery at home until lock down ends - we are without the tracker which invalidates our insurance I assume - something to check up on later. 

In the meantime, if I understand everything from above,
 - we get someone to do the EC700 by-pass , as I dont feel confident enough to do it myself (but does this then invalidate any warranties we have?)
 - we look at getting another 80w solar panel fitted taking our combined panels to 160w - which should see us through everything for off grid camping and also keeping batteries charged up next winter

Have I got this right?
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Post by malc45 Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:24 pm

Thank you Jamie D, but do I need to fit the plastic retaining strips again so as to avoid screwing into a new battery.
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Post by Roopert Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:51 pm

Plymouthwelshboy wrote:we bought this one home and charged it successfully to 13.3v. 

We put it back in the moho on Tuesday. We ensured the EC700 was switched off. Today the battery is reading 12.7v. On average it seems to be dropping around 0.1 or 0.2v per day. 

Sorry, but you are not seeing what you think you are seeing. You can't charge a conventional lead acid battery to 13.3V. What you are seeing (when it is at 13.3V) is the after-effect of the charging process. If you were to take a perfect lead acid battery and charge it fully, then take it off charge and immediately read the voltage, you will always see this - an elevated voltage because it has just been on charge.

If you were to take that perfect battery and leave it for an hour with no load on it, you would see a terminal voltage of 12.7V, give or take a tiny amount.

So, in simple terms, what you are seeing is a fully charged battery, provided you are taking the measurement at a point in time when the solar panel is not providing any input, and has not been for a short while (say 30 mins after darkness).
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Post by marconi Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:07 pm

Plymouthwelshboy wrote:
In the meantime, if I understand everything from above,
 - we get someone to do the EC700 by-pass , as I dont feel confident enough to do it myself (but does this then invalidate any warranties we have?)
 - we look at getting another 80w solar panel fitted taking our combined panels to 160w - which should see us through everything for off grid camping and also keeping batteries charged up next winter

Have I got this right?

Fitting a Dual MPPT Controller and bypassing the EC700 only involves unplugging the Solar input to the EC700 but not even at the EC700 so I can't see how that can invalidate the warranty.
The new Controller is connected to the Leisure Battery, your Warranty has gone on that having let it get down to 4.5 Volts, also one lead connected to the Vehicle Battery. There are several ways to do that your fitter can decide.

I found new information on the Vehicle Battery connection recently regarding the Peugeot Warranty which settles previous questions. Some users have liked to take the connection to the Vehicle Battery Terminal. I have not recommended that. Peugeot say "You Shall Not connect to anything other than the connections provided for the Converter" i.e. the Vehicle battery connection already in the Conversion. 

More Solar will always help and if you have room on the roof why not.
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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:56 pm

Roopert wrote:
Plymouthwelshboy wrote:we bought this one home and charged it successfully to 13.3v. 

We put it back in the moho on Tuesday. We ensured the EC700 was switched off. Today the battery is reading 12.7v. On average it seems to be dropping around 0.1 or 0.2v per day. 

Sorry, but you are not seeing what you think you are seeing. You can't charge a conventional lead acid battery to 13.3V. What you are seeing (when it is at 13.3V) is the after-effect of the charging process. If you were to take a perfect lead acid battery and charge it fully, then take it off charge and immediately read the voltage, you will always see this - an elevated voltage because it has just been on charge.

If you were to take that perfect battery and leave it for an hour with no load on it, you would see a terminal voltage of 12.7V, give or take a tiny amount.

So, in simple terms, what you are seeing is a fully charged battery, provided you are taking the measurement at a point in time when the solar panel is not providing any input, and has not been for a short while (say 30 mins after darkness).

ah well - thats useful to know - 'you dont know what you dont know'. its also reassuring because the battery is currently at 12.7v - and its been dark for a good thirty minutes plus down here .  hopefully this suggests the battery is holding its charge then.
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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:58 pm

Thanks Marconi - thats really helpful and reassuring.
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