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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:45 pm

New to motorhoming. Have new Broadway 2019 EB. Wondered if any coach built owners did astronomy and took a telescope with them? Looking for tips on how to carry and store telescope in a motorhome. TIA
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Post by bolero boy Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:03 pm

As you don't have a garage, I'd suggest under one of the side seats?

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Post by Tinwheeler Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:39 pm

Packing a telescope will be a common sense issue. 

I'm more concerned about a trip from Plymouth to Seaton/Downderry on Jan7th while supposedly in lockdown. It was hardly a nip around the block being a round trip of about 30 miles and involved crossing the Tamar into Cornwall. Neither does it appear to have been an essential journey judging by the blog.  censored

I make no apology for my words. We should all be staying at home and following the rules.
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Post by Richard G Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:44 pm

Plymouthwelshboy wrote:New to motorhoming. Have new Broadway 2019 EB. Wondered if any coach built owners did astronomy and took a telescope with them? Looking for tips on how to carry and store telescope in a motorhome. TIA
Steve 
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I would suggest opening the roof light and sticking it out !
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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:24 am

Tinwheeler wrote:Packing a telescope will be a common sense issue. 

I'm more concerned about a trip from Plymouth to Seaton/Downderry on Jan7th while supposedly in lockdown. It was hardly a nip around the block being a round trip of about 30 miles and involved crossing the Tamar into Cornwall. Neither does it appear to have been an essential journey judging by the blog.  censored

I make no apology for my words. We should all be staying at home and following the rules.
Actually the motorhome is stored down near there and the date I post don't actually always correspond with the days we do things. I agree with you on everything you say about lockdown and we have followed it religiously.....most of my family are front line key workers in the NHS and education. We do it for them. Take care and stay safe now.
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Post by Tinwheeler Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:28 am

Plymouthwelshboy wrote:
Tinwheeler wrote:Packing a telescope will be a common sense issue. 

I'm more concerned about a trip from Plymouth to Seaton/Downderry on Jan7th while supposedly in lockdown. It was hardly a nip around the block being a round trip of about 30 miles and involved crossing the Tamar into Cornwall. Neither does it appear to have been an essential journey judging by the blog.  censored

I make no apology for my words. We should all be staying at home and following the rules.
Actually the motorhome is stored down near there and the date I post don't actually always correspond with the days we do things. I agree with you on everything you say about lockdown and we have followed it religiously.....most of my family are front line key workers in the NHS and education. We do it for them. Take care and stay safe now.

Glad to hear it, PWB.
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Post by bolero boy Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:58 am

....replaced with a PM....


Last edited by bolero boy on Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:16 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:15 am

Yeah all fair points. We have been discussing the weight limit and various options. The actual issue is the weight of the towbar and e bikes eating into payload. Without those we would be fine. Maybe it's time to get it upgrades a little
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Post by bolero boy Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:50 am

This is often the issue with a van layout that has now really large, easily accessed storage, like a garage....bikes have to go outside, and ebikes need good strong support...
The Broadways aren't light vans but you'd hope one like yours (not the largest) could run satisfactorily ar 3.5t without too much of a problem.
All 'fit for purpose' vans should be able to support two peoples their clothes and kit, a decent supply of water (it's a touring machine not a caravan) and fuel and an array of other stuff, like bikes...
Have a real good look at the heavy stuff you currently deem essential but, if your license allows, a 'paper upgrade' (no physical changes) might be a lot easier.
Good luck.

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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:54 pm

Thanks - we put it on the weighbridge and calculated we were around 30kg over but then discovered we had an almost full waste tank - which seems stupid. I think the issue is that our towbar addition added a huge amount of weight at rear as do the E bikes and rack. 

When we last put it on the weighbridge we were just inside the payload limit by a few Kgs but we only had 1/4 tank of water onboard and 1/2 tank of fuel. We might look at seeing what is involved in up-plating and what the issues are regarding insurance etc.
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Post by bolero boy Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:50 pm

'In general' up plating shouldn't be an issue for insurers, certainly not from 3500 to (say) 3650kg as the van won't need any physical changes.
Perversely, VED is cheaper for 'heavier' vans (£165ish v £245ish) but some speed limits are lower (in uk dual carriageways).
Some continental tolls might be higher but (here is our biggest issue) access to many smaller continental villages will be restricted.
OTOH, the weight issue ,as well be far more important to you in which case it's almost a no brainier if you have C1 on your license.

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Post by rventhusiast Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:17 pm

But of more concern (if seriously considering a paper upgrade to 3650kgs) is you are still likely to exceed the rear axle load limit as that does not change. Your tow bar and ebikes exert more downward weight than they actually weigh due to the pivot effect. Did you weigh both axles when you visited the weighbridge? Often, even if your overall (MTPLM) is within 3500kgs, you may find the rear axle is overloaded. Increasing the axle weight will more than likely require additional work such as tyres with a higher load rating and/or rear air suspension.

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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:35 am

so apart from SVTech, who else out there does the up plating service should we go down that road? And if we needed to up grade suspension or tyres - are there any recommended companies down here in the south west who do that kind of work? forgive my ignorance on these matters  and thank you for all the help and tips
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Post by Caraman Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:29 pm

rventhusiast wrote:But of more concern (if seriously considering a paper upgrade to 3650kgs) is you are still likely to exceed the rear axle load limit as that does not change. Your tow bar and ebikes exert more downward weight than they actually weigh due to the pivot effect. Did you weigh both axles when you visited the weighbridge? Often, even if your overall (MTPLM) is within 3500kgs, you may find the rear axle is overloaded. Increasing the axle weight will more than likely require additional work such as tyres with a higher load rating and/or rear air suspension.

David
I agree.  By way of example the maximum load of a 215/70 R15 tyre is 1030 kg.  Loading across an axle is never equal.  So if a single fitment rear axle is loaded to its maximum of 2000 kg, it is still possible that one of the two tyres will be overloaded which is unsafe and I believe illegal.
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Post by bolero boy Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:03 pm

So, while being legal and safe is obviously the responsible of the owner, there has to be a degree of assistance from the converter. Why are so many vans being produced with such high MIRO weights that they can't be run safely and legally with any sort of useful payload.
More to the point, why aren't these veins made available on the heavy chassis so that customers can choose to do a real, safe upgrade, including axle weights without having to go to a third party.
I believe AS use the heavy chassis on (some of) their PVCs which makes the choice of 3500kg (as supplied) or 4000kg+ an easy one.
Why aren't some of AS coachbuilts (which have MIRO as high as these PVCs) produced (or available to order) on the heavy chassis.
Despite being quite a small van (6.4m x 2.12m) and having a low MIRO (2825kg) my own van can be ordered on the light chassis at 3500, 3650 or 3850kg, or on the heavy chassis at 4250kg.
Being a four berth and having four travel seats and a large scooter garage, it makes sense for owners to have the flexibility to run at the appropriate weight for their usage.
Certain Swift, A-T, Bailey longer coachbuilts are very close to 3350kg MIRO and will be over weight as soon as the passenger steps aboard and some fresh water carried, yet can't be specified on the heavy chassis...

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Post by harrysp Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:22 pm

Weight is a perennial problem, the van’s that is. We have tow bar/and 2 ebikes. With careful loading, and usually empty waste tank and usually no more than half full fresh water tank we manage to stay within 3500kg even for long European trips.

However we are thinking of changing our van and were particularly excited about the new EL Broadway. But we suspected that the payload might be prohibitive. It is 150kg less than a new BW EK, and as we’re fairly close to the limit anyway we can’t see how it would work. OH does the majority of the driving and his 70th is fast approaching so we are reluctant to upgrade the weight limit. Having looked at other British makes I agree that some of the vans are useless unless upgraded.

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Post by bolero boy Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:45 pm

Just checking the AS website, it lists the BW EK at MIRO 3131kg and the EL at just 40kg more at 3171kg.
Not much difference between the two, but compare them both to the 2825kg I posted above for my similar sized van and that's 300-350kg difference....that's a huge payload disadvantage.

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Post by harrysp Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:56 pm

The MIRO on the EK is 3019kg (we’re looking at the LP model) v the EL at 3171kg, hence the 150kg difference in payload. But as you say neither are great.

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Post by rventhusiast Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:27 pm

Chris (Bolero Boy) the principle answer is cost I suppose but increasingly the age group with ‘grandfather rights’ to C1 licences is diminishing and the target age group for manufacturers is now less likely to have C1 licences.

It doesn’t help that the demands of motorhomers over recent years for ever more home comforts such as full cookers, microwaves, full size fridge/freezers etc has significantly increased the MIRO of vans and diminished available payload.

The main worry is that most newcomers have little knowledge of the subject of weights and its ramifications - and there is little incentive for sales staff to point out any such limitations to new, prospective buyers.

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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:36 pm

Can I ask - apart from SVTEch - is there anyone else who does up plating and do any of you have contact details for that person/company - should we decide to go down this road? 

thanks
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Post by bolero boy Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:19 pm

rventhusiast wrote:Chris (Bolero Boy) the principle answer is cost I suppose but increasingly the age group with ‘grandfather rights’ to C1 licences is diminishing and the target age group for manufacturers is now less likely to have C1 licences.

It doesn’t help that the demands of motorhomers over recent years for ever more home comforts such as full cookers, microwaves, full size fridge/freezers etc has significantly increased the MIRO of vans and diminished available payload.

The main worry is that most newcomers have little knowledge of the subject of weights and its ramifications - and there is little incentive for sales staff to point out any such limitations to new, prospective buyers.

David
David, I agree with all you say....along with vans also getting ever larger where they try and replicate the caravans that many purchasers come from....it can't be done. 
Some U.K. vans are nearly 8m yet sit on the light chassis...Bailey Autograph 79-4T MIRO 3276kg...albeit at 3850kg to appear to give a larger payload of 574kg when in fact, with that enormous rear overhang, the 2000kg rear axle limit will probably be blown with passenger and water....or all the bedding and no room for OH!
Also, I was just wondering why AS built their PVCs on heavy chassis as the cost issue must be the same there as on a coachbuilt?

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Post by Richard G Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:14 pm

Plymouthwelshboy wrote:so apart from SVTech, who else out there does the up plating service should we go down that road? And if we needed to up grade suspension or tyres - are there any recommended companies down here in the south west who do that kind of work? forgive my ignorance on these matters  and thank you for all the help and tips
The cost may be astronomical!
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Post by paultheastronomer Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:24 am

Plymouthwelshboy wrote:New to motorhoming. Have new Broadway 2019 EB. Wondered if any coach built owners did astronomy and took a telescope with them? Looking for tips on how to carry and store telescope in a motorhome. TIA
Steve 
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Hi Plymouthwelshboy,

As a keen astronomer we often attend starcamps (lockdowns allowing) in our MH and take a variety of telescopes.  Smaller scopes (80mm refractors etc) are wrapped in a thick beach towel and stored safely under a bench seat, and my bigger scopes upto a 200mm SCT are either also carefully wrapped in thick towels or in their own hard case, and stored safely at floor level for travelling.  Mounts, counter weights, and accessory cases are pretty robust so I just fit them in where I can to keep them secure when driving.  With the heavier items do try to distribute the weight evenly and keep them at floor level.

I have a large Dobsonian used for visual deep sky observing, which sometimes travels with us to the darker sky locations such as the Kielder Starcamps,. But its rocker box won't easily fit through the habitation door so we make use of the large side windows in the Amethyst to get it in and out of the van.  Once at the site it stays outside under a waterproof cover for the stay so it only gets moved through the window twice on a trip.

For scope power I use a 16A mains socket splitter at the EHU post to provide mains power sockets in a waterproof box beside the mount.  All my12V power needs are provided by a 20A mains 12V PSU beside the mount, again in a waterproof box.  This powers my mount, cameras, dew heaters, etc. 

Any other questions feel free to ask. Good to find a fellow astronomer on the forum. smile!

Very best wishes.

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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:23 pm

Paul - thanks - that is such a great answer and so helpful - thank you. It is all new to me. out of interest, where did you get your telescope storage boxes from? I've been looking but haven't found much out there. At the moment I am thinking of wrapping it in a duvet inside a large waterproof bag I have , left over from sailing, and placing it on the floor during motoring.

I have a power pack of some form 7ah, if i remember correctly, coming with the scope but actually I might further investigate and muse on how you power yours and then get back to you with questions. Thank you so much for replying - really appreciated
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