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extra security lock for habitation door

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FreelanderUK
rogerblack
MelB
gary humphries
modelman
IanH
Jansellsbond
gpilky
Firedecisions
RML
Tinwheeler
Gromit
Paulmold
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Post by Gromit Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:14 am

Caraman wrote:Thanks Gromit - I didn't know that.  Fortunately mine has the deadlocking facility but it is newer van than yours.  You are right about not using it when the vehicle is occupied.  It highlights this in the manual.  However, when leaving the vehicle unoccupied it would seem sensible to deadlock it every time by double tapping the lock button on the key fob.
That's why I was miffed.  rolleyes

I can't understand why it would not be a standard fitment on all base vehicles, as it seems so sensible and logical to do exactly as you say.

Ah well, it probably saves them twopence a van!  so_sad
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Post by gpilky Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:10 pm

Caraman wrote:MelB - very sorry to hear of your break-in.

In an earlier post someone mentioned deadlocking.  I was reading up about this yesterday.  On the Peugeot it can only be set by pressing the lock button on the remote key fob twice and this will lock all three doors from both the inside and outside.  The hazard lights flash three times to confirm the deadlocking.  Alarms are much maligned as people ignore car sirens but if they are integrated with the tracker, as they should be with Sergent's tracking system, the tracking centre in Bedford will be alerted and will phone the owner.

Interesting. I have an alarm fitted, and pressing the lock button twice disables the ultrasonics, but leaves the contacts I've got on the doors and windows working so you can have an active alarm whilst you are inside.
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Post by Caraman Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:44 pm

gpilky wrote:
Caraman wrote:MelB - very sorry to hear of your break-in.

In an earlier post someone mentioned deadlocking.  I was reading up about this yesterday.  On the Peugeot it can only be set by pressing the lock button on the remote key fob twice and this will lock all three doors from both the inside and outside.  The hazard lights flash three times to confirm the deadlocking.  Alarms are much maligned as people ignore car sirens but if they are integrated with the tracker, as they should be with Sergent's tracking system, the tracking centre in Bedford will be alerted and will phone the owner.

Interesting. I have an alarm fitted, and pressing the lock button twice disables the ultrasonics, but leaves the contacts I've got on the doors and windows working so you can have an active alarm whilst you are inside.
I wonder if we are talking about the same lock button.  The lock button I am talking about is the one on the Peugeot combined ignition key & remote central locking fob which on my motorhome is integrated with the Cobra alarm that TSN Automative fitted for Marquis.   Pressing it once central locks all 3 doors and arms the alarm.  Pressing it twice deadlocks all three doors and also arms the alarm.  Disabling the alarm's internal acoustic sensors is achieved by pressing a small alarm programme button on the dash within 5 seconds of turning the ignition off and then pressing the lock button on the Peugeot key fob in the normal way (once for normal locking and twice for deadlocking).  The Cobra alarm is supplied with an extra fob with an arm/central lock button that functions in the same way as the lock button on Peugeot key fob.  This extra fob is attached to the spare keys and rarely used.  Central locking can also be achieved using Peugeot's ignition key in the driver's cab door but this won't arm the alarm or deadlock the vehicle.


Last edited by Caraman on Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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Post by gpilky Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:58 pm

Caraman - sounds the same to me - middle one of 3 with a padlock on it. A different alarm though. The second press gives an alarm but a different pitch so you ca tell the difference. I have a separate fob too but have never used it.
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Post by Caraman Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:03 pm

gpilky wrote:Caraman - sounds the same to me - middle one of 3 with a padlock on it. A different alarm though. The second press gives an alarm but a different pitch so you ca tell the difference. I have a separate fob too but have never used it.
When you press the middle one of 3 with a padlock on it twice, do the hazard lights flash 3 times which indicates deadlocking?
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Post by marconi Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:37 pm

gpilky wrote:
Interesting. I have an alarm fitted, and pressing the lock button twice disables the ultrasonics, but leaves the contacts I've got on the doors and windows working so you can have an active alarm whilst you are inside.

I wonder when the Deadlocking was introduced on the Peugeot.

Also the Red Vehicle Battery Isolation Button on the Ignition Switch, used for winter shutdown.
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Post by Caraman Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:45 am

I don't know the answer to either question but Gromit reports that in 2015 some vans had deadlocking and some including his own didn't.  The red isolation button is referred to under winterisation on page 10-4 of A-Ss 2018 Owner's Manual.  As this Manual covers the EC328, it could be inferred that the red isolation button has existed since then but the inference may not be correct.
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Post by FreelanderUK Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:49 am

My 2016 Peugeot WXL had dead locking as when middle button pressed on remote ,the indicators flash 3 times

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Post by marconi Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:55 am

Caraman wrote:
gpilky wrote:Caraman - sounds the same to me - middle one of 3 with a padlock on it. A different alarm though. The second press gives an alarm but a different pitch so you ca tell the difference. I have a separate fob too but have never used it.
When you press the middle one of 3 with a padlock on it twice, do the hazard lights flash 3 times which indicates deadlocking?

Just to be clear, the actual indication of the van having deadlocking is not just the flashing of lights three times, its more the audible extra crash of the locking mechanism on all three doors.

So for those owners vans with the Red Vehicle Battery Shutdown Button. Does your Alarm still work when the Red Button is activated during winter shut down ?
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Post by Caraman Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:49 am

marconi wrote:
Caraman wrote:
gpilky wrote:Caraman - sounds the same to me - middle one of 3 with a padlock on it. A different alarm though. The second press gives an alarm but a different pitch so you ca tell the difference. I have a separate fob too but have never used it.
When you press the middle one of 3 with a padlock on it twice, do the hazard lights flash 3 times which indicates deadlocking?

Just to be clear, the actual indication of the van having deadlocking is not just the flashing of lights three times, its more the audible extra crash of the locking mechanism on all three doors.

So for those owners vans with the Red Vehicle Battery Shutdown Button. Does your Alarm still work when the Red Button is activated during winter shut down ?
There is nothing like an experiment.  I've just deadlocked myself inside with the hazards flashing 3 times.  I couldn't open the cab doors from the inside but I could still open the habitation door.  I then let myself out before the alarm had time to arm.  So on my van and I expect others, the habitation door does not deadlock.  The so what is that deadlocking isn't much good on coachbuilts! 

As previously reported through experimentation, my red ignition button doesn't stop my vehicle alarm being armed but 7 minutes later when the vehicle electrics shutdown, the alarm loses its power from the vehicle battery which triggers it.  The siren at this point is being powered by a re-chargeable battery in the siren unit.
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Post by gpilky Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:16 am

Caraman wrote:
gpilky wrote:Caraman - sounds the same to me - middle one of 3 with a padlock on it. A different alarm though. The second press gives an alarm but a different pitch so you ca tell the difference. I have a separate fob too but have never used it.
When you press the middle one of 3 with a padlock on it twice, do the hazard lights flash 3 times which indicates deadlocking?
Don't know - I'll check the next time I lock it....
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Post by marconi Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:22 am

Caraman wrote:
marconi wrote:
Caraman wrote:
When you press the middle one of 3 with a padlock on it twice, do the hazard lights flash 3 times which indicates deadlocking?

Just to be clear, the actual indication of the van having deadlocking is not just the flashing of lights three times, its more the audible extra crash of the locking mechanism on all three doors.

So for those owners vans with the Red Vehicle Battery Shutdown Button. Does your Alarm still work when the Red Button is activated during winter shut down ?
There is nothing like an experiment.  I've just deadlocked myself inside with the hazards flashing 3 times.  I couldn't open the cab doors from the inside but I could still open the habitation door.  I then let myself out before the alarm had time to arm.  So on my van and I expect others, the habitation door does not deadlock.  The so what is that deadlocking isn't much good on coachbuilts! 

As previously reported through experimentation, my red ignition button doesn't stop my vehicle alarm being armed but 7 minutes later when the vehicle electrics shutdown, the alarm loses its power from the vehicle battery which triggers it.  The siren at this point is being powered by a re-chargeable battery in the siren unit.

Yes I am all for an experiment as you know.
Now that's interesting, because when the vehicle deadlock's there is an extra pulse and crash that seems to be an attempt at dead locking the Habitation Door.

Perhaps the fact that you can escape is a safety feature. Previous Motorhome Habitation Door locks have had a manual mechanism which deadlocks the thing presumably against attack from outside. Pulling the Latch from the inside cancels this.

Maybe you are merely doing the same to an electrically actuated deadlock, and from the outside the situation is different.

Applicable to the original subject of an additional Habitation Door Lock I have a Thule one fitted which can't be operated from the inside I don't think the models which can be operated from inside also would fit (I did look into it at the time). I have had the Milenco version on two vans and the paint falls of those in less that a year. 

Whenever I am deadlocked I have the extra lock closed so I have never tried to get out when deadlocked and wouldn't normally deadlock myself in, so I haven't tried the experiment.

On the Red Button subject we await the flood of information from other member of the forum.
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Post by Caraman Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:54 pm

On reflection I think the deadlocking of the cab doors still has utility as it protects against a would be thief from smashing the window glass and putting his hand through to open the door.  On the Nuevo there is no window close to the habitation door other than the window in the door itself which looks quite tough.

I suspect the easiest method of forced entry with the cab deadlocking on is to prise open one of the polycarbonate side windows with a crow bar and climb in.


Last edited by Caraman on Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:34 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Additional comment - last sentence)
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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:05 pm

as the person who posed the question - can I ask another dim newbie question? I understand what you are saying about the deadlocking. I have a 2019 broadway. I have the key fob with the three buttons - the middle one locks it. here comes the question - how would I know that the habitation door and the cab doors have deadlocks fitted? What am I looking for on the door sides? The reason I ask is that pushing the middle button twice doesn't seem to do anything!  scratch head
This securing your motorhome malarkey takes some thinking about  hugegrins
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Post by Caraman Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:32 pm

Plymouthwelshboy wrote:as the person who posed the question - can I ask another dim newbie question? I understand what you are saying about the deadlocking. I have a 2019 broadway. I have the key fob with the three buttons - the middle one locks it. here comes the question - how would I know that the habitation door and the cab doors have deadlocks fitted? What am I looking for on the door sides? The reason I ask is that pushing the middle button twice doesn't seem to do anything!  scratch head
This securing your motorhome malarkey takes some thinking about  hugegrins
On my 2019 Nuevo you have to double tap the lock button quickly.  Confirmation of deadlocking is the hazard warning lights flashing 3 times.  Non-deadlocking by tapping the locking button once is confirmed when the hazard warning lights only flash once.  Once non-deadlocked, it can't be deadlocked by tapping the lock button a second time, it has to be unlocked and then double tapped for deadlocking.  If you operate the lock button from inside the cab you can immediately determine if the cab door has deadlocked or not by trying to open the door.  You should have time to do this without triggering the alarm if you have an alarm fitted as the alarm doesn't immediately arm.
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Post by Plymouthwelshboy Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:40 pm

remember i said I was a newbie???
Do your doors therefore have extra bolts somewhere in addition to the actual lock on the cab door? And ditto for the habitation door? For example our front door has the main handle lock and then it has two further bolts that slide out when the handle is lifted up - the deadlocks.  Should I see something similar on the habitation and cab doors? I'm feeling really thick here but 'you dont know what you dont know' and I'm going with 'ignorance isnt not knowing something. It is 'not bothering to fess up to the lack of knowledge and then not bothering to find out'! scratch head smile!
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Post by Paulmold Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:20 pm

I thought I'd try the dead locking on my van . I pressed fob twice in quick succession, lights flashed twice, doors locked, centre dash button flashed and continued to flash but alarm didn't set (no alarm dash button flash) so I take it my van doesn't have deadlocking but pressing fob twice must be a way to lock van without alarm .

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Post by Caraman Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:22 pm

Plymouthwelshboy wrote:remember i said I was a newbie???
Do your doors therefore have extra bolts somewhere in addition to the actual lock on the cab door? And ditto for the habitation door? For example our front door has the main handle lock and then it has two further bolts that slide out when the handle is lifted up - the deadlocks.  Should I see something similar on the habitation and cab doors? I'm feeling really thick here but 'you dont know what you dont know' and I'm going with 'ignorance isnt not knowing something. It is 'not bothering to fess up to the lack of knowledge and then not bothering to find out'! scratch head smile!
I haven't tried to lock or deadlock the cab doors with the cab doors open to see what difference there is in the locking mechanism between the two.  The central locking which is needed for both normal locking and deadlocking may not function with a cab door that is open.  When I inadvertently try to central lock the vehicle with a door that is open I usually get an alarm.  I don't think that deadlocking is necessarily a more robust form of locking, it's simply that when locked it can't be opened from the inside.  Others may have a better or different understanding than me.
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Post by Caraman Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:30 pm

Paulmold wrote:I thought I'd try the dead locking on my van . I pressed fob twice in quick succession, lights flashed twice, doors locked, centre dash button flashed and continued to flash but alarm didn't set (no alarm dash button flash) so I take it my van doesn't have deadlocking but pressing fob twice must be a way to lock van without alarm .
Paul, I think yours must be different.  For my model 1 hazard warning light flash means normal locking, 2 flashes means unlocked (after pressing the unlock button) and 3 flashes means deadlocked.  This is as described in the Peugeot manual.  My Cobra after-market alarm is armed when the vehicle is central locked/deadlocked with the remote fob and disarmed when it is unlocked also with the remote fob.
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Post by Paulmold Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:42 pm

My alarm is also Cobra which is set when I press fob once and it flashed twice when unlocked , when I pressed twice to deadlock it flashed once to each press that's what I meant by flashing twice. To unlock I press top and bottom button on fob, centre button locks.

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Post by Caraman Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:17 pm

Paul - understood - it sounds as though like Gromit you don't have deadlocking.
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Post by marconi Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:07 pm

From my VIN decode Build Info:- 

LOCKING CONTROLDEADLOCKING + AUTOMATIC LOCKING
Most of the above are Yes/No features in the build presumably optional when ordered.


From the handbook :-

Deadlocking Pressing this button twice in succession deadlocks the vehicle. It is then impossible to open the doors from the inside or the outside. The direction indicators flash three times.

How it makes it more impossible to open from the outside I don't know. Unless it means you need a correctly coded key to open the doors and they will not open with a key in the Drivers door lock. Also it may mean its not vulnerable to being forced by a screwdriver in the lock.

One model had an easily removed plastic trim around the door lock which then allowed the lock to be turned with grips to open the door.
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Post by rogerblack Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:51 pm

"How it makes it more impossible to open from the outside I don't know"


It means if a thief smashes or forces a window, he or she can't then just put his or her hand in and open the door using the inside handles.

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Post by marconi Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:29 pm

rogerblack wrote:"How it makes it more impossible to open from the outside I don't know"


It means if a thief smashes or forces a window, he or she can't then just put his or her hand in and open the door using the inside handles.

Yes it may well be just that, but that's opening it from the inside really.  smile!

On my Citroen some tow rag demonstrated that if you punched a small hole under the door lock with a thin screwdriver then rocking the screwdriver back and forth operated the central locking. Now if the central locking was electrically dead (locked) that wouldn't happen. I wonder if something like that is in the design.
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Post by Caraman Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:47 am

I've copied this from the internet which explains deadlocking:

[ltr]It's one of a number of new technologies that were widely introduced in the 90s to combat rising levels of car theft. Before the introduction of deadlocks, it was possible to feed a coat hanger, or length of stiff tape, through a loose fitting window or door seal and pull up the door locking pin.[/ltr]
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[ltr]Image source: i2.wp.com[/ltr]
[ltr]If a thief was in a hurry, and didn't mind creating noise, then breaking a window would allow them to reach in to unlock the door. Another technique was bending the top of the door away from the car body far enough to fit an arm through.[/ltr]
[ltr]Enabling a deadlock either disables the internal unlocking mechanism, or mechanically blocks it. It means that it's more difficult to either access contents or get into the car (without a key).[/ltr]
[ltr]Many modern cars will lock the doors once moving, or allow you to lock all the doors from a button inside - the doors are locked but not deadlocked! For safety reasons, passengers inside a vehicle need to be able to get out quickly, even if the electrics have failed. Deadlocking is only to be used on a parked, empty car. Listen for a double 'clunk' when locking your car next time.[/ltr]
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