Whale "caravan" water fill.

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Post by Neuvosleeper on Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:02 pm

My 2011 Neuvo is fitted with the Whale fill system usually fitted to caravans, Im sick of it, it's a total disaster, lay flat hose to store, plug in valve thing, with small bore inlet etc etc: My fault should have sorted it before "paying" these changes are never pointed out at the "show" -- Has any handyman reverted one back to a normal "hose fill", at the same time i would fit a surface pump, doing away with the noisy "submersible" looking forward to a reply , Brian K.
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Post by Nuevo II EK on Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:36 am

I agree a total waste of time I have just bought a spare submersible pump off e-bay as I do not want to be unable to fill up if there is no proper tap connection on site . It may be a good system for a caravan but not for a mororhomer touring Europe and using Aires as stopovers. I had a quick look at converting my system but me feels a tat complicated if you get under and look at the tank and pipework. I look forward to other users comments , but for now its back to France again 3rd trip this year .
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Post by padraigpost on Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:18 am

My Suffolk also has this stupid system but it is the Truma version, as a result of this we have had to buy (and store) an aquaroll which has already been stated is a caravan accessory, once on site we do not move the van and this is the only way to fill if water gets short, it used to be simple to carry a watering can to top up with the fiamma filler. please autosleepers "if it aint broke-dont fix it". also the waste drain pipe is so low you cannot get a small waste container under, the water draining from the bathroom is so very slow and my dealer tells me it is because there is an UPHILL !!! run in the pipe, whoever tries to get water to flow uphill.
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Post by DuxDeluxe on Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:16 pm

Mine has the Truma version. I simply got a Fiamma 32 litre wheeled water carrier and use that when I need to top up when away and use the hose with the end fitting as came with the van when at home. I can't honestly see the problem - either a hose with the end fitting or with the water carrier which lives in the shower when on the move. Most of the time I don't take the water carrier if it is a short trip.

The only difference to me is that there is an end fitting - the hose plugs into a tap/whatever at the other end just like any other hose.........
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Post by Neuvosleeper on Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:44 pm

Well Dux Delux, I can only assume you are an ex caravanner, used to carrying al'sorts of un-necessary (in-case I need it ) extras, I dont want a 5 gallon tub in my shower cubicle as I'm a motorhomer who "tours", A/S fitted a 12 gallon tank to the underside of a very expensive mota !! All I need is to fill the B....tank, as simple as possible from any type of water supply thats potable, I dont need, never have needed a sub pump - a length of layflat hose- a thingy to plug it into-- 12v then to pack it all away, wet and orrible . Get it --if its been O.K. for 30 years with no complaints , leave well alone, a filler with a cap on which accepts hose ends, water-cans ,jugs, etc that are on site, O.K by me. Brian K. gettinwrong No No No.
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Post by DuxDeluxe on Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:38 am

Not an ex caravanner at all. .... First time into a motorhome 4 years ago. All I usually carry is the standard fill hose the same as everyone else and can see no difference between that and a normal fill connection except I connect it up instead of putting the fill connection in the spout. I took the container last time out mainly to see how it worked and also in the knowledge that refilling might be a bit challenging on a very informal campsite (Coniston Hall). Normally I pull into the site and fill up like everyone else. One thing I will not do (after 4 back operations) is to lift big hefty water containers several times to fill up the tank. My last van (a Lunar) had the best of both worlds which had the normal "non" connection plus an external pump plug socket.

I see what you mean, but didn't have a particular problem with putting a smallish container in the shower whenever on the move. I also try to keep clutter to a minimum -
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Post by padraigpost on Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:14 am

Neuvosleeper,
fully agree with your comments, when you have an inboard water tank why should you have to carry an aquaroll or similar and various hoses and pumps and have to pump the water in your tank, its like having a dog and barking yourself.
My Truma system was supplied with 1 short pipe with submersible pump which if it needs to be replaced is approx £58 from Truma, it also came with a long length of hose with a tap connector one end, a pressure reducer in the middle and the Truma connector at the other to connect to the van - replacement cost from Truma approx £90 all this has to be carried and is a waste of space and is another cost added to the manufacture of the vans which are expensive enough already. manufacturers seem to be like sheep, just because one fits something all the others have to follow, what happened to the KISS idea (Keep It Simple Stupid)
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Post by DuxDeluxe on Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:53 am

I agree with the above, but surely you must carry something to refill the tank when it needs it? Maybe I am missing something here but most people carry a hose to refill anyway. Mine just happens to have a Truma connector on the end. The equipment was supplied with the van so I am not out of pocket.

I must say that I was a bit dismayed to see the connector when I got the van but have learnt to live with it all and in fact found it reasonably convenient in that when I use the hose to fill up, I can just plug it in. I know that Zebedee (if you are reading....) actually specified his Nuevo with both type of connector.

Anyway, of course there are no right ways or wrong ways, just different ways....... appreciate the comments from both sides of the fence but it looks like I'm in a minority here content

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Post by padraigpost on Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:32 pm

I agree with DuxDeluxe there are no right or wrong ways I suppose it boils down to personal preference, after changing from the A/S Surrey with vast overcab storage to a low profile Suffolk with far less storage it would be far more convenient to be able to use my watering can as it serves several purposes, if I am having a barbacue it stands full of water for emergency use and also to wash off any road grime from the van. a hosepipe is ok if near a water tap to refill the tank. like you for a short trip I do not take the aquaroll but then have to travel with a tank of water which I try not to do but I will just have to get used to this system, but when it is time to change the van I have been told that A/S will if specified on ordering will fit the old Fiamma filler.
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Post by Neuvosleeper on Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:16 pm

I am "chuffed" to see at last my topic has caused interesting replies. I hope you all will be interested in the following info: Yesterday I visited A/S re: aguarantee claim regarding my Thetford cooker GRILL, after an unnecessary 3hr wait the Thetford engineer got it sorted -replacment tap. My main reason to mail is---during my "wait" I was able to chat happily with several team members. So re the "filler alteration most of us would like" is prevented by the latest chassis being "deeper" also the bed box as situated ?, to fit the normal fill hose is not acceptable as the hose needs to be "routed" via the bed box floor under the chassis member and "UP" to the tank this causes a large U bend this will always retain water thus becoming "stale"( yukky) dureing non regular use. I apreciate this important point whilst feeling the problem may not be unsurmountable, Next stop C.A.K. tanks sorting a suitable hose material ?? But remember friends the job entails laying down to work in cramped surroundings at some stage, So is it worth persueing---I love a challenge, keeps one young Mmmm. A previous friend mentioned lots of wires on the tank, these are only level signal-ling, and sub pump feed 12v not dangerious just dont damage them like "scuff" or pinch. Whose UP 4 IT. let us know please-you;r first. Happy days. allthumbz Brian K. quick_run quick_run quick_run
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Post by padraigpost on Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:31 pm

Many thanks Brian for the info, regarding the routing of the filler pipe and the "deeper" chassis I assume that this is for the X250 chassis, mine is on the Merc chassis so it seems they are routing the water in a similar way on all chassis. apart from the filling system my waste water is pitifully slow to drain and again the excuse is that there is an uphill run in the pipe. I will have to crawl under to see if this to can be altered.many thanks once again for posting the info.
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Post by murph on Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:04 am

HI Don & Brian K,
First question is, if AS will on ordering fit the standard filler how do they route the pipe to avoid the u bend and consequent yukky water, do owners who specify the standard filler have to put up with it, or do they fit some sort of drain tap to drain it. if this is the case why dont they fit the standard filler on all vans.
On the subject of slow draining of tanks here is a photo of an extra drain that I have fitted to our grey water tank to enable draining from both sides, the fitting on the end also allows a 5 metre pipe to be fitted to empty down the nearst drain without much shunting and tacking with the van. this is a 3/4inch smooth bore pipe rather than the 1/2 inch tap fitted by AS. the long pipe has the foot of a ladies stocking on the end to prevent food residue going down the drain. I also have a 1ft length similarly equiped.

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Post by padraigpost on Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:14 pm

Hi Murph,
regarding A/S being willing to fit Fiamma filler if specified I spotted this on the motorhome facts forum sent in by zebedee who specified it on his order for a Nuevo 11 which he says was supplied with the Fiamma filler, he also states that during a conversation with an A/S fitter who told him it was also possible to fit the 2 fillers side by side but whether anyone has had this done or want it done I do not know, I also am unaware how they get around the problem of the u bend or if they fit a drain.
Thanks for details and picture of your additional waste drain, great idea
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Post by Neuvosleeper on Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:14 pm

Hello Murph and Don, A/S Factory may fit the filler as requested on a pre "build" order this is not in my breif, as I am only relating the info: gleaned from the "service" department evidently, I assume a separate work force ?. I can believe the factory may well ignore the U bend problem as I once owned a Talisman G.L. which I discovered to my horror after several outings spoilt by odd tasting tea for a couple of days. I discovered this U bend and foul water when deciding to drop the tank and sort the unknown problem. Sorted in first instance "smelly debreigh etc: in the 1" 1/4 fill hose. Ever after I removed the hose from tank on arriving home. I did write to Charles T and they were aware of the fault--but seemed it was no big issue in 2002 o.t.a., older chassis too. So owners of these earlier motors "have a peek underneath" And those having a new one ALSO. I will hope to design a filler I like but seems it must wait until I,m out of warranty otherwise the sole warranty is lost. Read the small print if it applies to YOU, it seems Marquis may have influenced the wording of the guarantee doc: this is only a personal opinion ! ! Eyes in your a.. (rear) these days of R.O.B. Keep mailing, Brian K.
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Post by inspiredron on Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:49 am

Just to get some balance in this thread:

When we ordered our new Lancashire I was very concerned about the Whale water filling arrangements. Having used it this season I really like it. The only downside is that when you drive to the tap the habitation electrics are switched of automatically. The Whale filler won't allow water in unless it is powered so you have to remember to turn on the habitation electrics again once the engine is off. The first time we tried to fill the water at a site in Luxembourg it took us half an hour before we realised what was wrong!
We were supplied with a small pump on an alternative hose and that will pump 10 litres in from a bucket or jerry can extremely quickly if you can't easily get to the tap.
So my verdict is a 10/10 for the Whale system. It works for me. And both the cassette hose and the pump version pop easily in the bucket for storage. I found a great bucket that just fits the outside wet locker in Poundland.
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Post by CC on Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:56 pm

inspiredron wrote:Just to get some balance in this thread:

When we ordered our new Lancashire I was very concerned about the Whale water filling arrangements. Having used it this season I really like it. The only downside is that when you drive to the tap the habitation electrics are switched of automatically. The Whale filler won't allow water in unless it is powered so you have to remember to turn on the habitation electrics again once the engine is off. The first time we tried to fill the water at a site in Luxembourg it took us half an hour before we realised what was wrong!
We were supplied with a small pump on an alternative hose and that will pump 10 litres in from a bucket or jerry can extremely quickly if you can't easily get to the tap.
So my verdict is a 10/10 for the Whale system. It works for me. And both the cassette hose and the pump version pop easily in the bucket for storage. I found a great bucket that just fits the outside wet locker in Poundland.

Hi Inspiredron

We have had quite a few forum members saying about the time it takes to fill the tanks via their Whale fillers and this is the first time I've heard anyone mention about ensuring the 12v habitation electrics are switched on so you might have hit on something there... I often watch caravaners on adjacent pitches when on site and they always manage absolutely fine with these systems so they cant be that difficult shrugg Auto-Sleeper have come in for quite a bit of negativity on the forum for fitting these Whale systems so it will be interesting to see how these members are now getting on with these systems or if they are still having difficulties ??

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Post by padraigpost on Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:41 pm

Having had the truma electric pumping system fitted to my Autosleeper Suffolk (which is a similar system to the whale filler) for a year now and I still dislike it, I have known from the beginning to have the electrics switched on. I would not buy another van with this fitted and would specify at build stage to fit the fiamma standard filler (which was fitted to my Surrey model or I would not buy the van). the old saying comes to mind "if its not broke dont fix it"
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Post by Neuvosleeper on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:40 pm

I feel this thread deserves my final comment, since I started "the moan" on 5 / 6/12 you may see. I am still of the opinion this stupid idea should be for "caravaners only" they love carting "rolly" barrels and handles pipes and buckets en route. My motorhome places and spaces are valued for dual purpose stuff and touring tack. So guarantee or not, ( as in a previous reply) I've installed a direct Fill Hose, mounted inside the Gas Locker, it fills direct into the tank eliminating the dreaded U bend containing stagnant fluid. its a " good-un," well it suits ME. Bye Bye. wave Brian K. P.S. C.C. Consider the situation if the "cheap" little Whale pump ceases to function--impeller drive stripped or a flat ish battery And H. I D. needs instant water, why court problems. confused3
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Post by inspiredron on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:40 am

CruizingComet wrote:

Hi Inspiredron

We have had quite a few forum members saying about the time it takes to fill the tanks via their Whale fillers and this is the first time I've heard anyone mention about ensuring the 12v habitation electrics are switched on so you might have hit on something there... I often watch caravaners on adjacent pitches when on site and they always manage absolutely fine with these systems so they cant be that difficult shrugg Auto-Sleeper have come in for quite a bit of negativity on the forum for fitting these Whale systems so it will be interesting to see how these members are now getting on with these systems or if they are still having difficulties ??

CC

I agree that the fill rate is slower than a direct hose into a hole. That is because there is a non-return valve and a pressure restrictor on the inlet. If you don't switch on the habitation electrics then you get no water in at all - I discovered that in Luxembourg!
Many folk have talked about not wanting to carry an aquaroll but that is a red herring. The Whale comes with two hoses - one with a direct tap connection and the other with a pump. I have not yet used the pump other than to see how quickly it can put a bucket of water into the tank. You just connect the plain cassette hose to the site tap, turn on the tap and go to empty the toilet or whatever else you want to do while it fills. When the tank is full the flow switches off automatically. If you are on a pitch with its own tap you can stay connected (not that I would unless I turned the tap off). The only downside is that you cannot pour water in from a container - to get water from a container you have to use the external pump. But nobody can contaminate your water either!
Sorry - I still like it - and I started from a position where I thought it would be difficult and had asked A/S to fit a "normal" inlet. I am glad that said they couldn't. up!
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Post by Pug boxter on Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:53 am

It sounds like a frustrating system to me. I added an aqua-roll to my van when I got fed-up of trasping back and forth with a small water container. I still have the on-board tank as well, both work off the onboard pressure water pump.



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Post by Nuevo II EK on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:34 pm

Having the useless Whale system on our current Motorhome was one of the reasons our new Motorhome on order is NOT an Autosleeper as it comes with a standard filling point like was on the other two Motorhomes we owned before this Autosleeper.
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Post by murph on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:10 pm

Hi All,
Though I don't have one of these things, as I read in the previous posts the main problem seems to be the pressure reduction valve fitted in these systems, to enable them to be permenantly hooked up, which makes them slow, isnt it possible to remove this to speed up the flow.

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Post by Guest on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:27 pm

Hi

I've read this thread with interest. Lots of opinions about this type of water fill system compared to conventional method.

Having just read the article from MMM reviewing the new Nuevo ES ( which is posted on the AS website) they say it takes 40 minutes to fill a tank using the hose. They recommend converting to the conventional type.

I would expect the whale type system to take longer but 40 minutes is too much. Can anyone confirm it takes this long ?

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Post by inspiredron on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:04 pm

silver wrote:Hi

Having just read the article from MMM reviewing the new Nuevo ES ( which is posted on the AS website) they say it takes 40 minutes to fill a tank using the hose. They recommend converting to the conventional type.

I would expect the whale type system to take longer but 40 minutes is too much. Can anyone confirm it takes this long ?

Silver

40 MINUTES? TOTAL RUBBISH.

Yes - it took me about 20 minutes of frustration to work out on my first fill why no water was going in at all. But that was because of EU nannying rules. On modern vans the habitation electrics are switched off when the engine is running (and it is the Peugeot electrics that do that, I think). So I drove to the pitch, connected up the Whale filler and no water went in until I went to the Sargent panel and turned on the habitation power. Once that was on the tank filled quickly.

It is not as quick as using a hose into a conventional filler hole BUT, normally I go to the service point and the waste is draining or I can empty the loo while the tank is filling. The water fill stops automatically when the tank is full so does not have to be supervised, nor do you need to hold the hose. So if you have a tap close enough to your pitch you can connect up and do whatever else you want while it is filling. You could even leave it connected permanently and it will top up as water is used. I have never timed it but it probably takes about 4 or 5 minutes, certainly less time than it takes to empty and rinse the cassette.

So what are the disadvantages? You cannot pour water into the filler in any way at all so if you have your awning out you cannot get a jerry of water and pour it in and its cassette hose is only about 7m. But you also have a 12V pump supplied which will empty a 2 gallon bucket into the tank in around 30 seconds - it is really designed for use with an Aquaroll but who wants to carry an Aquaroll. Collapsible 5 gallon containers are around and could be used (if the neck is large enough) but in 8 weeks of touring so far I have never used the pump to fill up. If site water pressure was really low then I suppose it could be that the valve on the whale filler would not open. I've never met that but if it did happen then the cure would be to have a bucket under the tap and to use the pump to fill from the bucket at the same time, remembering to switch off the pump if the bucket emptied, as it would. Conversely, with really high site pressure the normal hose fill WILL be much quicker and others queuing at the service point may wonder why you are taking so long.

Like you, I was concerned and asked A/S to put in a conventional filler instead. When they came back saying that it had to be "as well" I declined as, by that time I had seen the Whale at Excel 2012. I do not regret that decision and am VERY PLEASED with the Whale filler. - But others hate it so I have to respect their opinion? You have to choose! scratch head
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Post by Guest on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:10 pm

Inspiredron

Thank you for your comprehensive and helpful response.

Regards, Silver

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