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Tyre Pressure Monitor

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Post by glyne lock on Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:50 pm

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Post by marconi on Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:05 pm

glyne lock wrote:Caravan
A bypass box .would sort the problems and let you set the pressures as you want
That's interesting the annoying problem has been recognised.

It will take a bit of study to be sure what models / versions it covers. I see the picture says 315-433MHz.
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Post by Caraman on Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:31 pm

glyne lock - that's an interesting site & gadget.  Do you have any experience of it being used?
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Post by glyne lock on Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:36 pm

No but just been watching  videos of TPms bypass box looks ok 
The small box you just place inside the vehicle from this same company and it’s uk
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Post by marconi on Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:40 pm

I see they have UK and Ireland telephone numbers. But why can't they spell Tyre's.
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Post by glyne lock on Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:39 pm

I just read the warning light comes on when the pressure is less than 25% of the vehicle setting .this might help what you can lower them to
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Post by Caraman on Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:41 pm

glyne lock wrote:I just read the warning light comes on when the pressure is less than 25% of the vehicle setting .this might help what you can lower them to
My front TPMS seemed to trigger around 4.0 bar which is 20% less than the 5.0 bar shown on the tyre pressure label.  4.0 bar was good while it lasted.  The CAMC who completely understand the problem and blame the converter suggests running with the TPMS triggered and then re-inflate to avoid problems at MOT time.  Peugeot also blame the converter.
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Post by Mike187 on Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:01 pm

What are the legal and insurance implications of basically disabling the TPMS with the bypass box?
I note they say it can be placed “discreetly “ in the vehicle, in other words hidden. And in their terms they absolve themselves of any responsibility for damage to your car or any legal issues.

As they do not mention the subject of the legality of its use on the website as far I can see then at the very best I suspect they think its use is a grey area of the law even though it is legal to sell it.

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Post by Caraman on Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:10 pm

Mike187 wrote:What are the legal and insurance implications of basically disabling the TPMS with the bypass box?
I note they say it can be placed “discreetly “ in the vehicle, in other words hidden. And in their terms they absolve themselves of any responsibility for damage to your car or any legal issues.

As they do not mention the subject of the legality of its use on the website as far I can see then at the very best I suspect they think its use is a grey area of the law even though it is legal to sell it.

Mike
I have no legal background or training but if the TPMS is not mandatory, which i don't think it is, disabling, bypassing or running it triggered shouldn't pose any legal/insurance problems.  Arguably a greater legal/insurance risk is posed by driving the vehicle on front tyres that are grossly overinflated at 5.0 bar.
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Post by Mike187 on Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:22 pm

TPMS is mandatory on M1 vehicles registered after November 2014 and is classed as major fault in the MOT, although the test is only to check warning light is working normally, a warning for low pressure in a tyre would not be classed a fault, so basically I presume the light comes on when the ignition is switched on and then goes out is what they look for.

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Post by glyne lock on Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:24 pm

Caraman
 sorry for name spelling just seen, my phone must have  kept changing to caravan
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Post by Caraman on Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:28 pm

Mike187 wrote:TPMS is mandatory on M1 vehicles registered after November 2014 and is classed as major fault in the MOT, although the test is only to check warning light is working normally, a warning for low pressure in a tyre would not be classed a fault, so basically I presume the light comes on when the ignition is switched on and then goes out is what they look for.

Mike
I'll be honest - I don't know if its currently mandatory or not to have a TPMS on a motorhome.  But there is evidence of recently built motorhomes that do not have a TPMS and this is what was said in 2018

[url=https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/articles/practical-advice/motorhome-tyre-pressure-monitoring-systems-a-beginners-guide#:~:text=On January 1%2C 2015%2C TPMS was brought into,motorhomes%2C are not required to have TPMS installed.][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Post by Richard G on Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:40 pm

Caraman wrote:
gef wrote:The easiest  way is to re inflate the tyre to just over the piller amount this will cancel the warning light
gef - I see like me have a 2019 model.  Do you know at what pressure the TPMS triggers on the front tyres?  I have dropped my front pressures from 5.0 bar to 4.0 bar and it hasn't triggered yet.  4.0 bar is 58 psi.  I want to get it lower than this.  Presumably, you have experience of clearing the warning light.  In your experience will inflating the front tyre to say 5.1 bar do the trick and how quickly does it clear?
Bingo

Reduced pressure in frony tyres to 65psi  and light goes out without driving anywhere.

Went for a 10 mile drive, still ok. MOT on Tuesday and its only half a mile away!
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Post by Caraman on Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:26 pm

glyne lock wrote:Caraman
 sorry for name spelling just seen, my phone must have  kept changing to caravan
Well when I had a caravan it seemed appropriate.  Maybe I should change it to Motorman but I am sure someone else has thought of that.
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Post by bolero boy on Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:39 am

Richard G wrote:
Caraman wrote:
gef wrote:The easiest  way is to re inflate the tyre to just over the piller amount this will cancel the warning light
gef - I see like me have a 2019 model.  Do you know at what pressure the TPMS triggers on the front tyres?  I have dropped my front pressures from 5.0 bar to 4.0 bar and it hasn't triggered yet.  4.0 bar is 58 psi.  I want to get it lower than this.  Presumably, you have experience of clearing the warning light.  In your experience will inflating the front tyre to say 5.1 bar do the trick and how quickly does it clear?
Bingo

Reduced pressure in frony tyres to 65psi  and light goes out without driving anywhere.

Went for a 10 mile drive, still ok. MOT on Tuesday and its only half a mile away!
...but 65 psi is still mightily hard for a light van like a Nuevo..
my own van (3420kg fully loaded) and a front axle weight of 1600kg runs at Continental's recommended pressure as follows....Front Axle: 1600 Kg - 3.0 bar/ 43.5 psi
Caraman's Nuevo is even lighter on the front at 1425kg which also is a recommended pressure of 3.0 bar (the Nuevo tyres are smaller than my own, hence the difference) and a long way from 65 psi (which must be 'firm' to say the least) and light years from 79 psi (which will require regular dentistry....).

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Post by marconi on Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:31 am

I am very suspicious of electronic gadgets which claim to a job and defeat the Manufacturers installation. Particularly from people who can't spell Tyres.

Heaven knows there are enough glitches and design problems with the CPU without a device interfering. How glitch free and tested on the Boxer is their unit.

I haven't watched the videos yet, I assume it receives the TPMS sensor signals converts them and overpowers the original signal to the CanBus all without physical connections. Reliability of that process would be another concern for me. Possible malfunctions because of where you stored those tins of beans.

Who is going to be the first to invest in one and report back.

As already said the Legality of the need for the system in our vans is a grey area, adding an unapproved gadget is a definite unknown.
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Post by bolero boy on Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:45 am

if the 'legal position' becomes better understood and the installed TPMS isnt mandatory, id be tempted to bin it completely and buy the £20 simple TPMS devices sold on ebay and similar....or not even bother....
this whole scenario sounds like a right #%^*+ (shambles?)

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Post by Caraman on Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:53 am

bolero boy wrote:if the 'legal position' becomes better understood and the installed TPMS isnt mandatory, id be tempted to bin it completely and buy the £20 simple TPMS devices sold on ebay and similar....or not even bother....
this whole scenario sounds like a right #%^*+ (shambles?)
I don't know if Peugeot can disable it but if they can I doubt very much that they will when they wont change its settings without a new tyre pressure label.
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Post by Richard G on Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:40 am

Well, van passed MOT and no TPWS lights so that is me sorted for now. Just going to keep my pressures at around 6psi below what the plate says.  End of subject???
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Post by gpilky on Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:56 am

Richard G wrote:Well, van passed MOT and no TPWS lights so that is me sorted for now. Just going to keep my pressures at around 6psi below what the plate says.  End of subject???
RG
I doubt this is the end of the subject  smile! Perhaps for you now your MOT is sorted, but not for me. As an engineer I cant let problems like this go until I have a solution..... I am convinced that the values can be set on the vehicle ECU - just need to find the kit to do it.

By the way - if you have a second system fitted such as TyrePal, would this constitute a functioning TPMS for the MOT? You would have a working TPMS - albeit not the factory fitted one.....
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Post by gassygassy on Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:32 am

I take it from these posts that your TPMS has a battery inside the tyre? On my car it simply operates not by measuring the actual pressure, but by measuring the difference between two tyres on the same axle. this must be done via the ABS system which measures wheel revolution speed. I had to fit the stupid space saver once, and as soon as I did the TPMS came up. When I got a new tyre fitted the warning light didn't go away until I scrolled through the menu and pressed "reset TPMS" or some such feature. It then logged whatever the current wheel diameter was and the warning light went out.
. . . . . .yet another reason for running an old car / old motorhome without these complicated computer things always either going wrong or telling lies. You can tell if your tyre is below pressure by kicking it - - - - can't you? snigger
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Post by Caraman on Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:29 pm

I discussed this with AS Sales Manager last week.  AS agrees that tyre pressures should be adjusted to match the axle mass in accordance with the tyre manufacturer's recommendations.  AS do not replace the stage 1 tyre pressure label with a stage 2 label of their own because they believe they would have to carry out extensive road testing of the whole vehicle for which they are not resourced and don't have the expertise.  For this reason, they stick with Peugeot's stage 1 tyre pressure label for the unconverted vehicle when they apply for stage 2 type approval, or, if it has an Al-Ko chassis, the stage 2 tyre pressure label provided by Al-Ko for the Corinium when AS applies for stage 3 approval.  This is also what Bailey does for its motorhomes which are all on an Al-Ko chassis with a plated front tyre pressure of 50 psi, or 54 psi if its a 6-berth with a higher front axle mass.  Earlier in the year Peugeot told me that a UK converter does fit its own stage 2 tyre pressure label which results in the TPMS being adjusted.  I have asked them which converter this is but I don't know if they will tell me.  I struggle to understand why any re-testing is required when all you are doing is adjusting the tyre pressure to match the tyre manufacturer's recommendation which is what all drivers are expected to do.  The DVSA has said that SVTech could downplate the front axle MTPLM from 1850 kg to 1500 kg.  I have asked Peugeot if this will be sufficient for them to adjust my front TPMS to trigger at a lower pressure.  AS doubts that it will as the plated front tyre pressure will still be 73 psi (5.0 bar).  AS say that vehicles supplied for conversion to motorhomes and panel vans with side windows are classed as passenger carrying vehicles and therefore must now be supplied to the converter with a TPMS.  This means Peugeot will not disable it.  AS suggested removing the tyre pressure sensors but, as we have heard in this thread, that will leave the warning light on and the sensors will have to be replaced for the MOT.  I would prefer to run the vehicle with the TPMS permanently triggered, which defeats the point of having it, and then hope it clears when it is re-inflated to the plated figure.  Unlike cars, Peugeot do not plate their vans with high and low load tyre pressures.  They only show the high load figure around which the TPMS is set to trigger when it drops by 20%.  AS believes that legislation stops Peugeot from setting the TPMS to trigger at a lower pressure.  I suggest this problem is greatest for the Nuevo and Broadway as their front axle masses are lower than the PVCs.  AS agree that it would be safer if Peugeot fitted a TPMS that could be adjusted by the driver but on cost grounds they don't.  I didn't ask whether the M-B TPMS can be adjusted by the driver.  It would be interesting to know if it can.  I have no idea what you are expected to do if you fit light Commercial (C) tyres which might include Winter tyres and are perfectly legal.  They have lower pressures than the CP tyre which the TPMS will prevent being used and its more dangerous to run on under-inflated tyres than over-inflated tyres.
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:09 pm

MB Sprinter Pre & Post 2018 TPMS can be manually set to whatever pressures you prefer using the on-board computer and steering wheel buttons.

"Restarting the tyre pressure monitor

When you restart the tyre pressure monitor, the currently set tyre pressures are taken as reference values for monitoring.

In most cases, the tyre pressure monitor detects the new reference values automatically, e.g. after you have:

   changed the tyre pressure

   changed wheels or tyres

   fitted new wheels or tyres

However, you can also define reference values manually as described here.

Before restarting the tyre pressure monitor:

By referring to the table behind the fuel filler flap or the tyre pressure table,more make sure that the pressure on all four tyres is correct for the present vehicle load.

Observe the notes on tyre pressure when doing so more.

Restarting the tyre pressure monitor (vehicles without steering wheel buttons):

Turn the key to position 2 in the ignition lock.

Press the mbsymb3_inv_0034.png menu button on the instrument cluster repeatedly until the display shows the following message:

+CAL- TPMS

Press the mbsymb5_inv_0066.png button on the instrument cluster.

The display shows:

OK TPMS

The tyre pressure monitor activation process has begun. The tyre pressures measured for the individual wheels are stored as the new reference values, provided that the tyre pressure monitor considers them to be plausible.
"

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Post by Cymro on Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:15 pm

Oh dear. I'd hoped that things would have been resolved, with common sense prevailing.  But it seems not.

Thank you, Caraman, for your persistence; for again meeting an official from A-S; and for your research. 

That we remain at this impasse (Peugeot refuse to lower triggers for TPMS until AS replate; AS refuse to replate for reasons given above; leaving owners forced to run front tyres (in particular) and pressures far above manufacturers' recommendation or else TPMS is triggered) is really unacceptable, and is an indictment upon the industry.

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Post by Caraman on Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:44 pm

Thanks PLOUGHLIN and Cymro for your support.  This is what the DVSA has said:

Unfortunately, there is nothing more the DVSA can do to assist you as this is essentially a dispute between the vehicles manufacturer and the convertor. However, from personal experience, neither party would welcome bad publicity, especially in the current economic climate. It may well therefore be interesting to see what a well-researched and written article on this matter, in a prominent outdoor leisure magazine, may achieve. 

I believe the more vocal owners are about this with AS, Peugeot, the DVSA, NCC, MMM, the CAMC and anyone else, the better.  It's a ridiculous situation.  This is what the CAMC has said:

...... In my view this issue sits squarely with the vehicle convertor to address, probably with support and guidance from the NCC....... I would suggest raising a concern against Auto-Sleepers via the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]and while it remains possible to do that, I would not anticipate a rapid response at present....... Some owners have reported success at getting Peugeot dealers to reset the TPMS (although many have refused). It may be worth persisting with any local dealers. Owners seem very reluctant to identify which dealers have done this, perhaps understandable.  A very small number of owners have reported success with sourcing the necessary diagnostic software to do the change themselves. This is challenging, though, due the wide range of variants of vehicle and software involved. We can’t offer specific advice on this, or whether particular software would work for a particular vehicle.  Your point picking up on the DVSA comments regarding publicity of the issue is a valid one. I’m happy to add this issue to the potential list of topics for a future Ask Your Club, although I’d note that this will be aimed at advising members about the situation.
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