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Tyre Pressure Monitor

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Post by Caraman on Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:29 am

Cymro wrote:Carman: may I please be clear on one point? You reported above that “At the end of the journey I inflated the front tyres to 5.1 bar.  The TPMS didn't clear on the drive but it did when I took the motorhome around the block.”

Did you take it for that short run without delay after re-inflation?

I ask because, in the thread of 2015, Askit asked me: “Cymro, I just wondered if you had got the warning to go off yet?  A Bailey owner, with the same system, on another forum suggested the vehicle has to run for 3 miles to reset.”

To which I replied: “Afraid not, Askit. I ran it for 90 miles after reinflating to the Peugeot figures (5 & 5.5 bar) with no luck.”

Thinking back, I suspect that I didn’t immediately take the van out for a run (of 3 miles or more) after re-inflating. So I wonder if it’s important to do that, to clear the TPMS?

Cymro
I took it for a short run maybe 15 minutes after re-inflation.  Re-inflation of both tyres took a few minutes as I used my bicycle floor pump but it was good exercise!  The TPMS cleared about 200 yds down the road.

I followed Jef's advice and re-inflated to just over the plated figure so when it reset the front tyres were at 5.1 bar.  I don't know if it would have reset if I had only re-inflated it to 4.5 bar which is the pressure I now have it set it at.

The 3 miles to reset chimes with my experience when it triggered.  It didn't trigger immediately but did about 3 miles into my journey.
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Post by Cymro on Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:31 am

Very, very useful. Thanks.
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Post by marconi on Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:12 pm

Does the 2015 Peugeot use the same sensor system as the 2019 Chassis.

There was a lot said on the Caravan Club - Club Together - Discussions and a lot of confusion, in 2019. People join in and don't tell the 'van year and give definitive solutions based on their car.

It was said that the 2015, 2016 Peugeot Models had a system which depends on Tyre Rotation to calculate the Pressure by Size, I have no idea how reliable that information is.

As I understand it the 2019 model does not use rotation.
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Post by Caraman on Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:58 pm

marconi wrote:Does the 2015 Peugeot use the same sensor system as the 2019 Chassis.

There was a lot said on the Caravan Club - Club Together - Discussions and a lot of confusion, in 2019. People join in and don't tell the 'van year and give definitive solutions based on their car.

It was said that the 2015, 2016 Peugeot Models had a system which depends on Tyre Rotation to calculate the Pressure by Size, I have no idea how reliable that information is.

As I understand it the 2019 model does not use rotation.
Cymro will know as his 2015 model was probably amongst the first to be supplied by A-S with a TPMS but I am pretty sure it has battery powered pressure sensors in each wheel like the current models.  The other TPMS system which I have on my car does not sense the tyre's pressure so there is no setting of its trigger pressures as there is with our models.  Once the driver has inflated his tyres, he sets or initialises the system.  The car's electronics will then pick up very small changes in the rotational speed of one wheel compared to the rest which can be caused by that tyre's circumference reducing due to it deflating more quickly than the rest.  It then alarms.  On my car it doesn't tell you which tyre it is so you have to get out and look and listen and use a tyre pressure gauge.  In my experience 50% of alarms are false but for the 50% that are not false, it's a pretty good system but maybe less accurate/sensitive than the battery powered wheel pressure sensor system and of course it doesn't tell you the pressure.  It also doesn't detect a gradual and equal deflation of all four tyres as there will be no difference between the rotational speed of the four wheels but then TPMSs are not fitted for that purpose.
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Post by marconi on Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:32 pm

Caraman wrote:

Cymro will know as his 2015 model was probably amongst the first to be supplied by A-S with a TPMS but I am pretty sure it has battery powered pressure sensors in each wheel like the current models.  The other TPMS system which I have on my car does not sense the tyre's pressure so there is no setting of its trigger pressures as there is with our models.  Once the driver has inflated his tyres, he sets or initialises the system.  The car's electronics will then pick up very small changes in the rotational speed of one wheel compared to the rest which can be caused by that tyre's circumference reducing due to it deflating more quickly than the rest.  It then alarms.  On my car it doesn't tell you which tyre it is so you have to get out and look and listen and use a tyre pressure gauge.  In my experience 50% of alarms are false but for the 50% that are not false, it's a pretty good system but maybe less accurate/sensitive than the battery powered wheel pressure sensor system and of course it doesn't tell you the pressure.  It also doesn't detect a gradual and equal deflation of all four tyres as there will be no difference between the rotational speed of the four wheels but then TPMSs are not fitted for that purpose. 

Well what a carve up.

I have gone to Cymro's cup of coffee thread. The methods that Caraman used don't seem to have worked for a long time for Cymro. Its in the dust cap, its done by wheel rotation, there is a button in the glove box.

I cant remember if I have read the thread before, I don't think it will be of any help, I might need something stronger than coffee.
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Post by Richard G on Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:01 pm

Well this has turned in to quite an interesting subject.

What happens if you fit the spare wheel? What happens if you swap the 2 front wheels over?

I will report back on what happens when ATS sort mine.

I have a relative in the Tyre Wholesale business, they sell the valves, and have a hand held device to clone to existing numbers.  Unfortunately they only sell them , to the trade, i must find out how many they sell.
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Post by Mike187 on Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:03 pm

These are replacement valve sensors for boxer vans 2014 onwards [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] 

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Post by Caraman on Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:06 pm

Richard G wrote:Well this has turned in to quite an interesting subject.

What happens if you fit the spare wheel? What happens if you swap the 2 front wheels over?

I will report back on what happens when ATS sort mine.

I have a relative in the Tyre Wholesale business, they sell the valves, and have a hand held device to clone to existing numbers.  Unfortunately they only sell them , to the trade, i must find out how many they sell.
I don't know about swapping wheels over and how it knows which is front rear left and right but the spare doesn't have a TPMS sensor.  As it's a steel wheel and the rest with tyre sensors are alloy, it would only be a temporary fix.
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Post by marconi on Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:27 pm

Mike187 wrote:These are replacement valve sensors for boxer vans 2014 onwards [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] 

Mike

Those look like valve mounted ones, my valves don't look like that. 433 MHz aye that means I should be able to hear the tyres talking to the Computer, and block the signal, bit old hat I thought 433 MHz stuff, big compliance problems. There is all sorts of old junk on 433.

Weren't we told that X290 our ones were square boxes inside the tyre.
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Post by gpilky on Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:57 am

Richard G wrote:Well this has turned in to quite an interesting subject.

What happens if you fit the spare wheel? What happens if you swap the 2 front wheels over?

I will report back on what happens when ATS sort mine.

I have a relative in the Tyre Wholesale business, they sell the valves, and have a hand held device to clone to existing numbers.  Unfortunately they only sell them , to the trade, i must find out how many they sell.
Got me thinking now - the garage just told me they rotated the tyres at its service  think_smiley_46
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Post by marconi on Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:07 am

gpilky wrote:
Richard G wrote:Well this has turned in to quite an interesting subject.

What happens if you fit the spare wheel? What happens if you swap the 2 front wheels over?

I will report back on what happens when ATS sort mine.

I have a relative in the Tyre Wholesale business, they sell the valves, and have a hand held device to clone to existing numbers.  Unfortunately they only sell them , to the trade, i must find out how many they sell.
Got me thinking now - the garage just told me they rotated the tyres at its service  think_smiley_46

Aha interesting. Do you now have TPMS problems.
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Post by gpilky on Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:26 am

I've been reading these threads on TPMS with some interest. Clearly the Peugeot system is not really fit for purpose as it essentially forces the owner of the van to drive with over-inflated tyres. This can be just as dangerous as driving with under inflated tyres as there will be insufficient rubber contact with the road and this will affect grip. Also handling will be affected.

Every system I have ever had on a car allows me to choose the pressure depending on the usage. The plate normally has two pressures - fully laden (4 people and luggage) and lightly laden (passenger and driver). You inflate the tyres to the correct pressure for your use, then set the TPMS - this then lets you know if it deviates from your set pressure.

Like many of you, I've compared my MH weights against the manufacturers recommended pressures and they are over inflated. Many on here have also commented that handling improves when the pressures are set according to the tyre manufacturers pressures. I'd like to reduce the pressures to the recommended levels, but essentially the Peugeot system prevents me from doing that (especially if the warning light results in a MOT failure).

The Peugeot system is, therefore, forcing me to drive the vehicle in an unsafe condition.
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Post by marconi on Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:45 am

gpilky wrote:I've been reading these threads on TPMS with some interest. Clearly the Peugeot system is not really fit for purpose as it essentially forces the owner of the van to drive with over-inflated tyres. This can be just as dangerous as driving with under inflated tyres as there will be insufficient rubber contact with the road and this will affect grip. Also handling will be affected.

Every system I have ever had on a car allows me to choose the pressure depending on the usage. The plate normally has two pressures - fully laden (4 people and luggage) and lightly laden (passenger and driver). You inflate the tyres to the correct pressure for your use, then set the TPMS - this then lets you know if it deviates from your set pressure.

Like many of you, I've compared my MH weights against the manufacturers recommended pressures and they are over inflated. Many on here have also commented that handling improves when the pressures are set according to the tyre manufacturers pressures. I'd like to reduce the pressures to the recommended levels, but essentially the Peugeot system prevents me from doing that (especially if the warning light results in a MOT failure).

The Peugeot system is, therefore, forcing me to drive the vehicle in an unsafe condition.

Exactly the same here. This has been going on for years, it is not so much the Peugeot system, it is that result of Auto Sleepers no carrying out the Second Stage Type Approval fully.
We are writing letters to the CEO of A/S the NCC and the VCA and any other body you can think of now is the time to join in. As you say it is a Safety Issue.


Last edited by marconi on Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Cymro on Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:43 am

I don't wish to mix up this thread, but there are two issues being addressed:

1. [the more important one] AS's refusal to re-plate at Second Stage, so that the TPMS is set to pressures far higher on the front axle than those recommended by tyre manufacturers; and 

2. TPMS valves.  I flagged this up in 2015. I've just seen that "Cymro will know as his 2015 model was probably amongst the first to be supplied by A-S with a TPMS but I am pretty sure it has battery powered pressure sensors in each wheel like the current models. " I confess not!  My tyres haven't been removed from new, so I don't know what sort of valve / sensor I have on my March 2015 NuevoES.  But I'll be very interested to know. Will Peugeot sell me the correct valves for my friendly local tyre dealer (with whom I've been dealing for 30+ years) to fit? Must I change the valves - metal, unlike plastic / rubber car ones - when changing the tyres?

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Post by Caraman on Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:22 am

Cymro wrote:I don't wish to mix up this thread, but there are two issues being addressed:

1. [the more important one] AS's refusal to re-plate at Second Stage, so that the TPMS is set to pressures far higher on the front axle than those recommended by tyre manufacturers; and 

2. TPMS valves.  I flagged this up in 2015. I've just seen that "Cymro will know as his 2015 model was probably amongst the first to be supplied by A-S with a TPMS but I am pretty sure it has battery powered pressure sensors in each wheel like the current models. " I confess not!  My tyres haven't been removed from new, so I don't know what sort of valve / sensor I have on my March 2015 NuevoES.  But I'll be very interested to know. Will Peugeot sell me the correct valves for my friendly local tyre dealer (with whom I've been dealing for 30+ years) to fit? Must I change the valves - metal, unlike plastic / rubber car ones - when changing the tyres?

Cymro
Sorry Cymro.  When I said 'like the current models' I didn't mean the sensors were exactly the same as the current models.  I simply meant that it had pressure sensors in each wheel unlike the other TPMS system which doesn't have sensors or even measure the pressure.
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Post by glyne lock on Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:01 pm

Cymro and Richard when you change a wheel position it well reset itself to the new position, and as long as the spare wheel has the correct valve fitted well also work  when you move the vehicle sets it self to the new position .look at the valve on the spare on your van if it looks the same. when you have tyres fitted you normally fit complete new valves but with tpms they can just fit the valve insert
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Post by breakaleg on Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:16 pm

My van failed the MOT because the tpms wouldn't reset after the tyres were blown up, I asked the Peugeot dealer to inflate them for me as being disabled I can't manage it myself (I found out recently that kwik fit will inflate tyres free of charge for the disabled (good to know) anyway, it failed the MOT and I was charged £50+ pounds for it to go on the diagnostic machine, that didn't show a fault, and were talking about replacing the system, I said can't you just remove it, no was the answer, they cleared the cache  and all was well.
But they can't adjust the pressure and the van bounces along the road.
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Post by Caraman on Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:47 pm

glyne lock wrote:Cymro and Richard when you change a wheel position it well reset itself to the new position, and as long as the spare wheel has the correct valve fitted well also work  when you move the vehicle sets it self to the new position .look at the valve on the spare on your van if it looks the same. when you have tyres fitted you normally fit complete new valves but with tpms they can just fit the valve insert
It would be interesting to know how its able to reset and know which wheel is which.  I had read that the TPMS doesn't cover the spare but I suppose that doesn't mean the spare doesn't have a sensor that's ready to play when the spare is used.
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Post by glyne lock on Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:15 pm

Caravan
The spare wheels are only steel rim and normal valves fitted and is why I said to look at the valve
It transmits and sends a can signal from new position . The sensor has got a battery that I have not had any problems with yet
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Post by gpilky on Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:34 pm

I was wondering if anyone has had to replace the TPMS on the Boxer? According to Mr Google, some systems are intelligent and just require an extended drive, but others require a OBD reprogram. Curios if anyone has had to do this and how it was done?
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Post by glyne lock on Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:43 pm

I have fitted new sensors to other makes but buy them from eBay as to the make of vehicle and come already programmed they look the same part  but are listed as to the make they have been programmed to.
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Post by glyne lock on Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:13 pm

Caravan 
Have you been to  tyre pressure monitoring system bypass site
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Post by Caraman on Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:28 pm

glyne lock wrote:Caravan 
Have you been to  tyre pressure monitoring system bypass site
No -what's that?
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:28 pm

Does any one with a MB based AS conversion have TPMS fitted and how does it work. The one on my MB E Class is great. pump the tyres to the pressures you want, then through the steering wheel button access the on board computer, click OK, pressures set.

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Post by glyne lock on Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:33 pm

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A bypass box .would sort the problems and let you set the pressures as you want
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