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Quality controll

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Post by RCBirmingham on Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:15 am

So, picked up my brand new Broadway FB a couple of weeks ago, one weekend away and it's back to the dealers. Do they actually check these vans before they leave the factory? So far it's going back for:

1. New Control Panel, my freezes and noting works on it after a couple of hours, have to turn all power off, then back on again to re-set it. 
2. Handbrake wont hold on a hill, despite being on the top ratchet
3. 3 inch crack in the bodywork just behind drivers door on b pillar
3a. Large dent in rear panel about the size of a 2p piece which somebody has tried to hide under by painting over
4. Water pump runs on for ages after tap turned off, and yes I have tried to adjust it and it still happens
5. One of the bed slat retainers is broken

After spending over 60k I was expecting something a little better, do I need to lower my expectations now as an AS owner, is this par for the course?
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Post by burlingtonboaby on Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:49 am

Hi RCB
Built quality and PDI complaints have been posted on the forum for years, in the hope that someone at AS Willersey would read the posts, judging by your problems,no.
I think you will get a few posts on the topic shortly.
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Post by Eltel on Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:30 am

You would have expected that the dealer PDI would have picked up many of the issues you have.

Which dealer did you buy it from ?

Hope you get it sorted soon.

Terry
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Post by Greyhound on Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:10 am

RCBirmingham wrote:After spending over 60k I was expecting something a little better, do I need to lower my expectations now as an AS owner, is this par for the course?

I was the same after we bought our Symbol.

For the money we could have bought a pretty high end car, which no doubt would come with a dribbling salesman who can't do enough for you and an expected top notch level of build quality.

Fortunately we haven't had too many issues, but I did have one where the Truma display was turning off intermittently and to save a long trip to the dealers I quickly took it out and found it was simply a poorly crimped wire, but looking at the way the wires are just thrown in behind the panels (behind the EC500 it's a rats nest).  It makes you realise these can't be compared to high level hand built vehicles and they are definitely built to a budget and things installed very quickly.

You can get 'friday afternoon' vehicles all the time of course, but it does seem with these they leave the workshop with a 'it'll probably be ok' attitude.
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Post by RCBirmingham on Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:14 am

Eltel wrote:You would have expected that the dealer PDI would have picked up many of the issues you have.

Which dealer did you buy it from ?

Hope you get it sorted soon.

Terry
From Nick Whale Motorhomes, to be fair they have been really good so far, booked the van in for next Monday, for the technical stuff, but they have said it will need to go back to AS for the body work.. which does not leave me with a good feeling given they were happy to ship it out with the issues I have found already..
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Post by groundhog on Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:26 am

It shouldn't happen of course, PDI should be much more thorough but is it all Autosleepers fault? Your handbrake problem is a fault with the base vehicle, a fault with the control panel and water pump could well be the failure of a generic component which pretty much all manufacturers use. Did it have a dent when it left the factory and did someone subsequently break the bed slat.

I am not exonerating Autosleepers in any way and of course on something costing so much this should not happen but knowing people close to me who own new motorhomes from various British and German manufacturers it seems to be a fact of life with these vehicles that you take a builders van and bolt domestic appliances to it and you get trouble.

Hope that is the end of your woes and you get lots of pleasure from your new van once it has shaken down.
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Post by RCBirmingham on Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:43 am

groundhog wrote:It shouldn't happen of course, PDI should be much more thorough but is it all Autosleepers fault? Your handbrake problem is a fault with the base vehicle, a fault with the control panel and water pump could well be the failure of a generic component which pretty much all manufacturers use. Did it have a dent when it left the factory and did someone subsequently break the bed slat.

I am not exonerating Autosleepers in any way and of course on something costing so much this should not happen but knowing people close to me who own new motorhomes from various British and German manufacturers it seems to be a fact of life with these vehicles that you take a builders van and bolt domestic appliances to it and you get trouble.

Hope that is the end of your woes and you get lots of pleasure from your new van once it has shaken down.
I think the fault lies with the PDI process, of the lack of.
The handbrake isn't their fault, but I would have expected to have been picked up.
Crack in the bodywork and dent should have been picked up by the factory or the dealers
Panel is a known historical fault, so why ship something out without thoroughly checking it's not one of the faulty ones
Bed slat is actually to short to sit in the retainers properly, so manufacturing fault
Water pump / pressure switch may just need adjusting properly, I have tried and cant fix the issue.
For me it's the added inconvenience of having to go the dealers on at least two occasions, once to get the electric panel done, a second time for it to be sent over the factory for the body work, who compensates me for my lost time.. I had just expected more..
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Post by Eltel on Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:50 am

I’m with RCBirmigham in that all of the issues should have been picked up in the PDI
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Post by groundhog on Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:54 am

So you should for that amount of money, When we bought our new van in 2012 it had 24 faults, Went back to the factory and Marquis many times but after the initial period it has been faultless touch wood,
As you say so many of our faults too were down to poor pdi, So easily avoided. Marquis Plymouth were outstanding even keeping the branch open one night when we were on the way to the ferry! Even they though could have picked up air vents not connected, table cupboard out of alignment, rivets missing from awning attachment etc etc!


Last edited by groundhog on Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Paulmold on Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:57 am

Surely the PDI is done at the dealer, in this case, Nick Whale who the OP says have been really good so far.

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Post by Richard G on Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:28 am

RCBirmingham wrote:
Eltel wrote:You would have expected that the dealer PDI would have picked up many of the issues you have.

Which dealer did you buy it from ?

Hope you get it sorted soon.

Terry
From Nick Whale Motorhomes, to be fair they have been really good so far, booked the van in for next Monday, for the technical stuff, but they have said it will need to go back to AS for the body work.. which does not leave me with a good feeling given they were happy to ship it out with the issues I have found already..
Bought mine , used, from Nick Whale.  The warranty for 6 months was a 1 page document excluding most things.  I have had expensive electrical issues but not gone back under warranty , would have probably been a waste of time. (agreed shutdown happened) Dont think they care too much!
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Post by Bernie Wisely on Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:43 am

Auto Sleepers claim to have BSI ISO 9001, I was heavily involved in obtaining a 9001 certificate and fail to understand how they got it or even maintain it. Their idea of quality control is pathetic, they say that they will rectify faults under warranty but at your expense (your travel etc is not covered). no two vans are made to a fixed build (required under 9001) and lots of design failures are avoidable if they were 9001 certificated.
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Post by Tinwheeler on Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:33 pm

Bernie Wisely wrote:Auto Sleepers claim to have BSI ISO 9001, I was heavily involved in obtaining a 9001 certificate and fail to understand how they got it or even maintain it. Their idea of quality control is pathetic, they say that they will rectify faults under warranty but at your expense (your travel etc is not covered). no two vans are made to a fixed build (required under 9001) and lots of design failures are avoidable if they were 9001 certificated.

ISO accreditation is about having the paperwork in place to show processes. Other than perhaps an occasional spot check, it has little to do with the quality of the actual work.

Our current Warwick developed a leak in the plumbing connections to the Truma Combi because the water pipes were too short and were only just held together by the clips. In time the pipes moved a bit resulting in a leak over the floor.

We recently contemplated a new Symbol and found a pretty major fault in the build - a warped wall resulting in a twisted and badly fitting washroom door. The new Warwick Duo we hope to collect soon has more minor faults such as loose taps, and snagging drawers which should be fixed by the time we collect it. Only time will tell whether the electrical components are trouble free.
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Post by Libraryman2 on Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:16 pm

I have a 2017 Corinium fb, to be fair it’s been pretty good, my dealer in Derby has been excellent and corrected all the minor faults..(as they should)
I think part of the issue has to be the initial build quality as notwithstanding third party components I.e fridges etc, it all relates back to the shop floor!

Today and yesterday I decided to remove the wheel arches!!..to remove and check the rear wheels!

It’s fact that on my vehicle and  as far as I am aware, the arches have to be removed to give clearance for the rear wheels to come out!!
I found most of the security screws chewed, I had to drill out one of them...they didn’t fit correctly and the gaps were filled with sealer!

With a bit of care and filing, I refitted them much closer to the body without the tube of sealant to fill the gaps..

Quality controll Efa73910
Quality controll 261bff10
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Post by Bernie Wisely on Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:39 pm

Part of ISO 9001 processes is ensuring that the process is maintained to the same standard throughout the build until a major change is documented and that at the end a final inspection to ensure the build meets all the processes correctly and the vehicle is fit for purpose, there should also be build in to the process to rectify any faults and then resubmit for a final sign off.
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Post by Molly3 on Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:46 pm

I sometimes think the only quilaty controller is the customer ?
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Post by Dbvwt on Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:45 pm

Bernie, I’m in complete agreement with your posts about how things should be done but have to agree with Tinwheelers comment below.


“ISO accreditation is about having the paperwork in place to show processes. Other than perhaps an occasional spot check, it has little to do with the quality of the actual work.”


When I worked for a large reputable company, it was all about ticking the right boxes on the right form regardless.
We still did our work to the high standards we had done for the previous 15 years but as long as that form was filled in every month the boss was happy and nobody ever came out to check on us.
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Post by modelman on Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:51 pm

The rear wheel-arches have to be removed to get at the rear wheels??

Wow! scratch head

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Post by Paulmold on Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:24 pm

modelman wrote:The rear wheel-arches have to be removed to get at the rear wheels??

Wow! scratch head

To be fair it's only on the Corinium and only those fitted with 16" wheels. Whistle1

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Post by johndean on Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:17 pm

hi all
We purchased our Fairford new from Nick Whale Evesham 2019
We asked that they fully inspect vehicle and correct any problem before we collected.
We gave them 8 weeks to do this.
Good news first the Peugeot base vehicle as shown no faults to date.
Bad news
1) spare wheel fell off on journey home 5 miles to home from Nick Whale
( stopped vehicle and correctly fitted spare wheel )
2)  hecking vehicle when home 2  x 12 volt sockets not wired up
3) tv Ariel sockets not wired up correctly ( fixed myself )
4) first journey too Devon maxi view Ariel fell off ( fixed by maxi view subject under investigation  by dept of Transport ( long story )
5) all carpet trim around windows fell off( Nick Whale said known problem and refitted, fell off again week later. Fixed by myself now ok,
6) wrong screw fitted in front screen blind track far to large ( fixed my self )
Nick Whale wouldn’t collect vehicle only 6 miles away
So who,s fault A/S or Nick Whale
Very happy with van now
I spent 30 years as chief engineer for Peugeot trying to instruct technicians to get things right first go I think I wasted those 30 years
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Post by marconi on Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:22 pm

The 2019 Nuevo is unbelievable.

Too much bad workmanship, so many design faults, not fit for purpose in so many ways. AS do not want to know.
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Post by Suppersready on Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:17 pm

Libraryman2 wrote:I have a 2017 Corinium fb, to be fair it’s been pretty good, my dealer in Derby has been excellent and corrected all the minor faults..(as they should)
I think part of the issue has to be the initial build quality as notwithstanding third party components I.e fridges etc, it all relates back to the shop floor!

Today and yesterday I decided to remove the wheel arches!!..to remove and check the rear wheels!

It’s fact that on my vehicle and  as far as I am aware, the arches have to be removed to give clearance for the rear wheels to come out!!
I found most of the security screws chewed, I had to drill out one of them...they didn’t fit correctly and the gaps were filled with sealer!

With a bit of care and filing, I refitted them much closer to the body without the tube of sealant to fill the gaps..

Quality controll Efa73910
Quality controll 261bff10

Mine looks like your first photo ...... think I’ll need to do the same especially if screw heads are fubard. 
Nice job well done.
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Post by Libraryman2 on Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:42 pm

Thanks..it’s an easy job, I wouldn’t fancy getting a puncture then finding out the screws were buggered...nightmare!!

Ray
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Post by Tinwheeler on Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:57 pm

When we had our Suffolk we would lift the rear axle with a trolley jack which then gave clearance below the wheel to let it drop down clear of the wheel arch once the studs were removed. Would that not work on the Corinium?Quality controll 349e7310
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Post by Libraryman2 on Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:08 pm

Tinwheeler wrote:When we had our Suffolk we would lift the rear axle with a trolley jack which then gave clearance below the wheel to let it drop down clear of the wheel arch once the studs were removed. Would that not work on the Corinium?Quality controll 349e7310


No unfortunately....I don’t know why it is the case but it’s simply not possible to remove my rear wheel without removing the wheelarch....I’ve tried several times...lifted the chassis very high...with 2 inches under the tyre but the width of the tyre just stops it coming past the wheelarch.

Ray
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