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Can't get water into My 2014 Broadway

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Post by Sapman on Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:09 pm

Hi 
In day 6 of 8 day newbies tour and for first time can't get water into van!
Was half way through topping up water supply using aquaroll / submersible whale pump when pump stopped working. Drove van to on site services and the hosepipe / whale fitting not worked either. It's like the connector(whale to motorhome). doesn't allow water through it. Tank shows 25% full. 
Any help greatly appreciated!
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Post by Mike187 on Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:01 pm

Sounds like the solenoid valve that cuts off the water filling when the tank is full is closed. Check its connections, I have had a wire come off before now. If you have the EC328 check fuse 5 I think that is the one for the outside filling pump. I’m assuming you know that the habitation electrics have to be on for either filling method.

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Post by Sapman on Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:18 pm

Thanks Mike. Yes Sargent fuses OK although not sure how to check connections. Yes 12v supply on when filling
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Post by Mike187 on Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:41 pm

The solenoid is just the van where the water filler is. A recent post had a picture of it, there should be two wires to it. If you have multimeter you can check there is power to it. There is also filter in the pipe there which can collect debris, but that usually only slows down the filling, it would stop the flow if completely blocked. 
Are you sure the water tank is not full, the gauges have a reputation for not being accurate.

Mike

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Post by inspiredron on Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:39 pm

Someone else had this problem last week. The solenoid valve has a captive filter that can clog and then reduces the pressure so that no water will get in - the solenoid valve needs power and water pressure to open. The solenoid valve sits behind the big black plastic cover in the o/s bed locker and is secured with 2 screws. First check for 12v on the terminal. If none then a fuse may have blown or the float switch that cuts the 12V when the tank is full has gone open circuit.
The solenoid valve is easy to remove to clean - disconnect electrics and the plumbing connections to remove. Pull down collars of plumbing fittings to release the pipes from the supply.

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Post by Sapman on Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:47 am

Thanks Ron. Will check this out
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Post by rventhusiast on Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:43 am

It amazes me how many posts highlighting problems with the Whale filling system there are on this forum. Why do manufacturers choose to continue with an unnecessary complication that has numerous possible failure points when there is a perfectly simple method that costs much less and is unlikely to develop faults - the whole in the wall filler worked well for many years.

David
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Post by Gromit on Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:26 am

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Last edited by Gromit on Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by kaspian on Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 am

Gromit wrote:

Quite so David.

My watering can hasn't blown a fuse or clogged up in all the years I've been using it!!  shrugg

Dave
  Yawn ! Next you'll be telling us it's only had 5 new handles, 8 new spouts and a couple of new bodies in all that time!  hugegrins
             I think the issue comes with people's expectations . If you are a convert to motorhoming and paying upwards of 70 thousand pounds you dont want or expect to humph water multiple times  in an old watering can every day to fill the tanks. That and the rise of super pitches where everything can be plumbed in and you end up where we are. The Whale system allows you to connect to mains water and then it manages supply , filling when necessary to maintain water levels just like home.  It's down to user expectations and I cant imagine of anyone with £70K++  disposable income expecting to trek to a water tap multiple, times with a watering can  or wash in a saucer of water  with a flannel to save water and avoid the daily water work out!
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Post by Peter Brown on Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:59 am

Sapman wrote:Hi 
In day 6 of 8 day newbies tour and for first time can't get water into van!
Was half way through topping up water supply using aquaroll / submersible whale pump when pump stopped working. Drove van to on site services and the hosepipe / whale fitting not worked either. It's like the connector(whale to motorhome). doesn't allow water through it. Tank shows 25% full. 
Any help greatly appreciated!

The water level indication and ball valve that controls the level of water in the tank are completely independent of each other. The water level indicators are notoriously unreliable so its quite possible you have a full tank that wont accept anymore water.
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Post by Gromit on Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:01 am

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Last edited by Gromit on Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by kaspian on Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:03 pm

Gromit  me old mate hugegrins   , I think you have lost sight of the concept of 'camping ' - in a very expensive motorhome with all mod cons IS  to me a home from home. Is the watering can perhaps your  nod to simpler times to feel less guilty ? Whistle1  Problem is no one makes a basic motorhome with a £10 fan heater for heat and a foot pump for water and gas mantle for light. Customers now demand I phone connectivity to switch their wet central heating on before arriving back at camp site, satellite tracking internet connectivity, large widescreen 4k tv  etc etc  etc ( Why ....I dont know and agree with you 100% but times have changed and a box on wheels with no amenities and a bucket and chuck it toilet just wont sell any more....especially if you are asking £70K upwards which unfortunately I cant afford.....now where did I leave my old  Vango force 10 tent?
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Post by Gromit on Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:26 pm

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Last edited by Gromit on Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Peter Brown on Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:31 pm

Don't you feel you should restart this debate elsewhere on the forum as recent posts are not going to help Sapman get water in his tank?
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Post by Gromit on Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:13 pm

Apologies Sapman.

Please ignore the inconsequential rubbish.  :0_blush:
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Post by kaspian on Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:45 pm

Peter Brown wrote:Don't you feel you should restart this debate elsewhere on the forum as recent posts are not going to help Sapman get water in his tank?
Correct of course up! but I feel you had covered all bases with your explanation of the workings!
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Post by IanH on Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:28 pm

rventhusiast wrote:It amazes me how many posts highlighting problems with the Whale filling system there are on this forum. Why do manufacturers choose to continue with an unnecessary complication that has numerous possible failure points when there is a perfectly simple method that costs much less and is unlikely to develop faults - the whole in the wall filler worked well for many years.

David
Totally agree, hole in wall above tank top, tap in bottom of tank for draining, virtually nothing to go wrong and both rely on a usually reliable power source....................gravity!!!!!
Simplicity, always best!
hugegrins up!
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Post by rgermain on Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:38 pm

Do we actually demand such things or do they think it will sell vans?

From what I see, most new vans are owned by older people who more than likely just want a simple life.
----------
Richard

PS our Whale system has never let us down.


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Post by Sapman on Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:11 pm

Interesting comments all.... I see from another related post that Autosleeper can add a gravity feed connection, so something I'll persue in any case.

Just tried aquaroll again and it let me put in 20 ltrs... Then stopped so I assume this is what we've used in last day. Since arriving on site with both tanks near empty I've put in circa 120 ltrs and taken  circa100 ltrs out, so I can't believe fresh tank is full. Reading on panel says 0% fresh. I note ballcock is independant of panel so will get it checked out. Will update with outcome
Cheers
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Post by Peter Brown on Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:55 pm

The 5 probes in the side of the tank that detect the level get covered in scale and their reliability is also dependant on the hardness of the water. You can use a safe descaler like Kilrock Descalene in the tank to clean the probes, it needs to be done a couple of times a year if you are unlucky with the water on the sites you use.
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Post by Jansellsbond on Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:11 pm

In an emergency you can attach a hose directly to the fresh water drain cock and fill it in one tenth of the time.   There is a pressure release/overflow hole in the top of the tank so keep an eye on the outflow. I have used this system for 3 years fulltiming with no problems.
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Post by rventhusiast on Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:38 pm

kaspian wrote:
Gromit wrote:

Quite so David.

My watering can hasn't blown a fuse or clogged up in all the years I've been using it!!  shrugg

Dave
  Yawn ! Next you'll be telling us it's only had 5 new handles, 8 new spouts and a couple of new bodies in all that time!  hugegrins
             I think the issue comes with people's expectations . If you are a convert to motorhoming and paying upwards of 70 thousand pounds you dont want or expect to humph water multiple times  in an old watering can every day to fill the tanks. That and the rise of super pitches where everything can be plumbed in and you end up where we are. The Whale system allows you to connect to mains water and then it manages supply , filling when necessary to maintain water levels just like home.  It's down to user expectations and I cant imagine of anyone with £70K++  disposable income expecting to trek to a water tap multiple, times with a watering can  or wash in a saucer of water  with a flannel to save water and avoid the daily water work out!
Kaspian - I'm not particularly saying that having a hole in the wall filler is the only way to go by any means or that it is indeed the right way to go for everyone. However, there is no escaping the fact that it is the simplest way by far to fill a motorhome water tank - not necessarily by a watering can (which I don't use) but even with a hose pipe. And yes, if you have paid for a serviced pitch with water available 'on tap' then having a Whale water system could prove extremely useful. Personally, I have never used a serviced pitch in this country but in Spain have had a water tap available so have used it by connecting my hose and filling the tank every three or four days without needing to move the van - considerably easier than trekking to a tap elsewhere with a container or driving the motorhome to a service point I freely admit.

My point is the unnecessary complications of relying on fragile electronics to ensure you can obtain water - and, when those electronics fail (as they surely do) having no other means by which the basic requirement of water can be obtained. Many years ago we had a Damon Daybreak which had what the Americans fondly call a 'City Water Connection' allowing you to permanently connect a hose pipe to the mains water supply. But they also recognised that there may be occasions when a permanent and individual water source was not available - and for that reason it was possible to fill the huge fresh tank using an ordinary, standard hose.

On a brief foray into the world of caravans we took our pride and joy to a site near Doncaster and spent an intriguing couple of hours setting up only to find that even though the aqua roll was full nothing was coming out of the kitchen tap for a well earned cup of tea. In short, the Whale plug had failed - luckily we had a car to travel the 15 or so miles to Bawtry where we were relieved of about £35 for a replacement.

More recently, the Wircester we owned only had a Whale filler and, after a while, I came to accept the small foibles of having to have the control panel switched on ( which automatically switches off when starting up to drive to the water point) and liked some of the benefits of an automatic shut off. Now we have changed to a newer Bourton I have the option of the Whale filler (which I will never fill from a water barrel) or a standard hole in the wall. This gives me the option of connecting to mains water if available or to simply top up using a hose or container as the fancy takes me. One thing that will not happen is nit having access to fresh water refill simply because the fancy electronics I paid for have packed up - perhaps I would then appreciate a bit off the price of the van than having a system 'more like home' which I have just tried to get away from.

David
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Post by inspiredron on Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:22 pm

Sapman wrote:Interesting comments all.... I see from another related post that Autosleeper can add a gravity feed connection, so something I'll persue in any case.

Just tried aquaroll again and it let me put in 20 ltrs... Then stopped so I assume this is what we've used in last day. Since arriving on site with both tanks near empty I've put in circa 120 ltrs and taken  circa100 ltrs out, so I can't believe fresh tank is full. Reading on panel says 0% fresh. I note ballcock is independant of panel so will get it checked out. Will update with outcome
Cheers
It does sound as though your tank is fuller than you may think. As Peter Brown says, the Sargent indicator is often unreliable, which is a nuisance. One way to tell whether it is the float switch that is interrupting the flow is to go into the van when no more water will go in and rock from side to side. If you hear a clicking sound that is the float switch working and the tank is full  One other possibility is that you have the "fill" option on the Sargent enabled. I have seen that in the menu on my EC328 but never used it. I believe that it switches the solenoid on for a fixed period (1 minute?). I have the pump option in the menu set to "BOTH" which ensures that sink taps and external pump can both work provided that the EC328 is switched back in after driving to the tap.
By all means consider having a supplementary hole in the wall added but you will lose some locker space. Because the shape of the Whale fitting is unsuitable for a hole AND the Whale hole is precut in the shell hole only is not an option.

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Post by Caraman on Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:06 am

If older Auto-Sleepers only have the autofill method of filling the freshwater tank, I can see the benefit of adding a filler cap.  Later Auto-Sleepers have both.  For me the main value of the autofill is being able to use it in conjunction with an external whale pump to fill the tank from a water barrel.  If either the external pump or autofill fail, I can still use a handheld container through the filler cap, laborious though it may be if consumption is 40 to 50 litres a day and/or the tap is distant.  I only use the hose with autofill because it is there.  I would be just as happy using the filler cap.  It might not turn off automatically but it might be quicker.
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Post by Caraman on Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:48 pm

Sapman - just had a bit of bother with my Whale autofill.  It turned out to be little more than poor brass contacts on the unit.  I noticed when the pump wasn’t working there was a faint click from the socket when I switched the autofill on and off.
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