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whalemaster system and whale external pump

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Post by George colin on Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:03 pm

I have solved all filling problems by removing the round black thingy (solanoid) and replacing it with a straight through pipe. Works fine and I can hear tank filling. When full water just overflows from overflow outlets.
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Post by Caraman on Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:39 pm

George colin wrote:I have solved all filling problems by removing the round black thingy (solanoid) and replacing it with a straight through pipe. Works fine and I can hear tank filling. When full water just overflows from overflow outlets.
Does the Watermaster pump still switch off when the tank is full or don't you use it?
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Post by inspiredron on Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:30 pm

Brackjo wrote:Dear All,

Is it possible to purchase the plastic whale plug as a separate item so you can attach your own hose?

Regards
Brackjo
No, you can't buy the connector on its own. I was disappointed to discover that after 7 years my flat hose developed pin hole leaks. I  opened up the connector (4 screws), shortened the hose and reconnected it with a new crimp connector. Unfortunately it has developed more pinholes so I have shortened the flat hose to about 1 metre and put a Hiselock connector to attach a length of normal (not flat) hose. The normal hose takes up only marginally more room and still fits in my bucket and will be quicker to coil up after use.
If the short length of flat hose leaks than I will fit standard hose directly to the Whale connector. However, crimping on the clamp is tricky and there isn't enough space to accommodate a jubilee clip.

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Post by IanH on Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:14 am

Being a great believer in simplicity, here we have had 4 pages of posts of variable complexity to actually achieve making water flow downhill powered by gravity to fill a tank!
Final solution is a hole in a wall and a watering can!!! (George Colin post) 
Sometimes I despair ( and please be assured I am not anti progress or innovation, just biased towards simplicity!) hugegrins
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Post by Caraman on Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:46 am

IanH wrote:Being a great believer in simplicity, here we have had 4 pages of posts of variable complexity to actually achieve making water flow downhill powered by gravity to fill a tank!
Final solution is a hole in a wall and a watering can!!! (George Colin post) 
Sometimes I despair ( and please be assured I am not anti progress or innovation, just biased towards simplicity!) hugegrins
I assume your despair is because you think other people don't understand the benefit of using a watering can.  I am sure they do understand but they also understand the benefit of using a water roll.  Portering 115 litres of water to fill empty fresh and hot water tanks takes 3 trips with a 40 litre water barrel, 12 trips with a 10 litre watering can and 17 trips with a 7 litre watering can.  This is why some people like to use a water roll, if they have one and the means to use it, especially if they often use CLs with no facilities and a tap that can't be reached by hose and is distant from the pitch.
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Post by Cymro on Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:41 am

Possibly off-thread, but you can see its relevance:

In the September issue  of ASOC News (very colourful) there's a Tech Tip about using a rainwater downpipe foot to fit into the motorhome's (ordinary) hole-in-the-vertical-wall water filler, to make it easy to top up with a watering can or similar. That tip has featured on the Forum in the past. The ASOC tip (from Dave 10620) helpfully gives the Screwfix part number - 82922. So I rushed off to buy one.

However, I found that it won't go into the filler hole on my van unless the plastic raised rim at the end of the foot is cut off using a hacksaw or similar. Then it fits really snuggly.

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Post by Gromit on Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:50 am

Caraman wrote:
IanH wrote:Being a great believer in simplicity, here we have had 4 pages of posts of variable complexity to actually achieve making water flow downhill powered by gravity to fill a tank!
Final solution is a hole in a wall and a watering can!!! (George Colin post) 
Sometimes I despair ( and please be assured I am not anti progress or innovation, just biased towards simplicity!) hugegrins
I assume your despair is because you think other people don't understand the benefit of using a watering can.  I am sure they do understand but they also understand the benefit of using a water roll.  Portering 115 litres of water to fill empty fresh and hot water tanks takes 3 trips with a 40 litre water barrel, 12 trips with a 10 litre watering can and 17 trips with a 7 litre watering can.  This is why some people like to use a water roll, if they have one and the means to use it, especially if they often use CLs with no facilities and a tap that can't be reached by hose and is distant from the pitch.
But who would use a watering can to fill up from empty?  shrugg 

The discussion hinges around exactly how each system is used by the individual.

Having done the sums and applied a bit of logic, I always fill up before the start of a journey using a simple hose and the hole-in-the-wall. (The minimal additional fuel cost is almost impossible to calculate accurately as there are so many other factors, several of which have a far greater effect. So I don't bother about it.)

When on site the can is used only for topping up, so we rarely need more than three or four trips every couple of days. This negates the benefit of using a water roll, which is far too bulky to store in our van anyway. By the time I had got all the bits and pieces out and waited for the water roll to fill up at the tap and empty into the van, I would be putting the can away having finished the job.

Plus there's nothing to go wrong, which may not be significant to those who have never had a problem, but it clearly puts a damper on the holiday for those who have!

Whatever suits the individual, but it's certainly worth discussing so newcomers to the sport can make a reasoned judgement.
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Post by Caraman on Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:56 pm

Gromit wrote:
Caraman wrote:
IanH wrote:Being a great believer in simplicity, here we have had 4 pages of posts of variable complexity to actually achieve making water flow downhill powered by gravity to fill a tank!
Final solution is a hole in a wall and a watering can!!! (George Colin post) 
Sometimes I despair ( and please be assured I am not anti progress or innovation, just biased towards simplicity!) hugegrins
I assume your despair is because you think other people don't understand the benefit of using a watering can.  I am sure they do understand but they also understand the benefit of using a water roll.  Portering 115 litres of water to fill empty fresh and hot water tanks takes 3 trips with a 40 litre water barrel, 12 trips with a 10 litre watering can and 17 trips with a 7 litre watering can.  This is why some people like to use a water roll, if they have one and the means to use it, especially if they often use CLs with no facilities and a tap that can't be reached by hose and is distant from the pitch.
But who would use a watering can to fill up from empty?  shrugg 

The discussion hinges around exactly how each system is used by the individual.

Having done the sums and applied a bit of logic, I always fill up before the start of a journey using a simple hose and the hole-in-the-wall. (The minimal additional fuel cost is almost impossible to calculate accurately as there are so many other factors, several of which have a far greater effect. So I don't bother about it.)

When on site the can is used only for topping up, so we rarely need more than three or four trips every couple of days. This negates the benefit of using a water roll, which is far too bulky to store in our van anyway. By the time I had got all the bits and pieces out and waited for the water roll to fill up at the tap and empty into the van, I would be putting the can away having finished the job.

Plus there's nothing to go wrong, which may not be significant to those who have never had a problem, but it clearly puts a damper on the holiday for those who have!

Whatever suits the individual, but it's certainly worth discussing so newcomers to the sport can make a reasoned judgement.
Maybe some can't see it but there are pros and cons for each method of supplying a motorhome with its water.  There is no right or wrong way.  What suits one set of circumstances may not suit another.
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Post by bolero boy on Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:32 pm

Caraman wrote:
IanH wrote:Being a great believer in simplicity, here we have had 4 pages of posts of variable complexity to actually achieve making water flow downhill powered by gravity to fill a tank!
Final solution is a hole in a wall and a watering can!!! (George Colin post) 
Sometimes I despair ( and please be assured I am not anti progress or innovation, just biased towards simplicity!) hugegrins
I assume your despair is because you think other people don't understand the benefit of using a watering can.  I am sure they do understand but they also understand the benefit of using a water roll.  Portering 115 litres of water to fill empty fresh and hot water tanks takes 3 trips with a 40 litre water barrel, 12 trips with a 10 litre watering can and 17 trips with a 7 litre watering can.  This is why some people like to use a water roll, if they have one and the means to use it, especially if they often use CLs with no facilities and a tap that can't be reached by hose and is distant from the pitch.
...or no trips with a long enough hose (two long hoses joined together cover just about every situation weve been in thrpughout Europe, and take up little space) or one trip via the MHSP on entry....
as 120 ltrs lasts is 10-12 days if using site showers or 5-6 days if showering in the van. its unlikely we will need to visit the MHSP again nor top up with the hose.....or watering can.
...but as ypu say....its what suits each user....we just prefer not to have to tote water.

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Post by marconi on Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:24 pm

Cymro wrote:Possibly off-thread, but you can see its relevance:

In the September issue  of ASOC News (very colourful) there's a Tech Tip about using a rainwater downpipe foot to fit into the motorhome's (ordinary) hole-in-the-vertical-wall water filler, to make it easy to top up with a watering can or similar. That tip has featured on the Forum in the past. The ASOC tip (from Dave 10620) helpfully gives the Screwfix part number - 82922. So I rushed off to buy one.

However, I found that it won't go into the filler hole on my van unless the plastic raised rim at the end of the foot is cut off using a hacksaw or similar. Then it fits really snuggly.

Cymro
 
That is another French idea they have been using rainwater 90 deg bends for years, I can never come to terms with the hygiene side of that unless you sanitise all around the locking flange first.

I never have any trouble getting my can spout in.

If I want to pour a few 6Ltr bottles of water in I have a green flexible spout as used on a Petrol Can which I retain for the purpose.
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Post by Caraman on Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:52 pm

marconi wrote:
Cymro wrote:Possibly off-thread, but you can see its relevance:

In the September issue  of ASOC News (very colourful) there's a Tech Tip about using a rainwater downpipe foot to fit into the motorhome's (ordinary) hole-in-the-vertical-wall water filler, to make it easy to top up with a watering can or similar. That tip has featured on the Forum in the past. The ASOC tip (from Dave 10620) helpfully gives the Screwfix part number - 82922. So I rushed off to buy one.

However, I found that it won't go into the filler hole on my van unless the plastic raised rim at the end of the foot is cut off using a hacksaw or similar. Then it fits really snuggly.

Cymro
 
That is another French idea they have been using rainwater 90 deg bends for years, I can never come to terms with the hygiene side of that unless you sanitise all around the locking flange first.

I never have any trouble getting my can spout in.

If I want to pour a few 6Ltr bottles of water in I have a green flexible spout as used on a Petrol Can which I retain for the purpose.
When I used the watering can method I didn't have too much trouble getting the water though the filler cap.  I had more difficulty with the toilet flush header tank which I don't have now.
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Post by bolero boy on Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:53 pm

" I can never come to terms with the hygiene side of that unless you sanitise all around the locking flange first."


we must have a sterner disposition than some as, on the rare occasions the hoses dont reach, I use the guttering 'elbow' in the 'wasser' hole and, despite using the tank water for tea/coffee (filtered then boiled), I've never even given a thought to 'sanitising' anything....hose, guttering elbow, 'hole' etc.
do folk sanitise their watering cans?...or anything else?
IMHO, we (certainly in this country) have become so obsessed with 'avoiding germs' (never seen so many folk cleaning everthing with wetwipes) no one has a resistance to them these days....

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Post by marconi on Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:10 pm

bolero boy wrote:" I can never come to terms with the hygiene side of that unless you sanitise all around the locking flange first."


we must have a sterner disposition than some as, on the rare occasions the hoses dont reach, I use the guttering 'elbow' in the 'wasser' hole and, despite using the tank water for tea/coffee (filtered then boiled), I've never even given a thought to 'sanitising' anything....hose, guttering elbow, 'hole' etc.
do folk sanitise their watering cans?...or anything else?
IMHO, we (certainly in this country) have become so obsessed with 'avoiding germs' (never seen so many folk cleaning everthing with wetwipes) no one has a resistance to them these days....

Quite a bit of road dirt gets round there, I don't want it in my system.

The Watering Can you can wash out, stored Hoses can have stale water in them, hence we always run through some clean water before filling.

I had a collapsible can once with a tap, now discarded. At the beginning of the season no water came out of the tap. A spider had cocooned himself right inside the tap, he was a right blighter to get out, he withstood very high pressure. In a hose that might have got into the pump or a sink tap, the Whalemaster wouldn't have like it I am sure.


Last edited by marconi on Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Caraman on Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:18 pm

Shouldn't only food grade plastic be used if it comes into contact with the fresh water?
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Post by marconi on Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:30 pm

Caraman wrote:Shouldn't only food grade plastic be used if it comes into contact with the fresh water?

For very short term filling contact it wouldn't concern me. Storage is a different matter.

The clear plastic bottles that contain Spring Water etc are known to leach chemicals into the contents. No one seems to worry about that.


Last edited by marconi on Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:09 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : smelling and tunctupation)
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:39 pm

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Wide mouth 1.5 litres food safe. We've used two for the last 19 years or so for drinking water.
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Post by bolero boy on Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:56 am

i expect most users of 'food grade' hoses would be pretty shocked to cut one open and see what one looks like inside after a good period of use.....not nice.
when they are rolled or folded, a small amount of water stays inside them...the cant be completely drained and dried each time...
its possible to clean them with stuff like Puriclean...
better not to look...

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Post by Caraman on Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:50 am

bolero boy wrote:i expect most users of 'food grade' hoses would be pretty shocked to cut one open and see what one looks like inside after a good period of use.....not nice.
when they are rolled or folded, a small amount of water stays inside them...the cant be completely drained and dried each time...
its possible to clean them with stuff like Puriclean...
better not to look...
I read somewhere that the inside of food grade hoses are treated to prevent or deter mould.  No idea how effective it is or if it's true.
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Post by Gromit on Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:07 am

bolero boy wrote:i expect most users of 'food grade' hoses would be pretty shocked to cut one open and see what one looks like inside after a good period of use.....not nice.
when they are rolled or folded, a small amount of water stays inside them...the cant be completely drained and dried each time...
its possible to clean them with stuff like Puriclean...
better not to look...
Caraman wrote:I read somewhere that the inside of food grade hoses are treated to prevent or deter mould.  No idea how effective it is or if it's true.
At risk of being shouted at again, that's another reason why I prefer the watering can.

It drains completely and dries itself after use, and is very easy to inspect and disinfect if necessary. A quick glance down the spout to check for house hunting spiders is all that's necessary.

If the inside of food grade hoses are treated it obviously doesn't work very well, and I'm not sure I want my inside treated by the water passing through (or being trapped inside during storage) and leaching it out.  rolleyes
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Post by Caraman on Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:21 am

Gromit wrote:
bolero boy wrote:i expect most users of 'food grade' hoses would be pretty shocked to cut one open and see what one looks like inside after a good period of use.....not nice.
when they are rolled or folded, a small amount of water stays inside them...the cant be completely drained and dried each time...
its possible to clean them with stuff like Puriclean...
better not to look...
Caraman wrote:I read somewhere that the inside of food grade hoses are treated to prevent or deter mould.  No idea how effective it is or if it's true.
At risk of being shouted at again, that's another reason why I prefer the watering can.

It drains completely and dries itself after use, and is very easy to inspect and disinfect if necessary. A quick glance down the spout to check for house hunting spiders is all that's necessary.

If the inside of food grade hoses are treated it obviously doesn't work very well, and I'm not sure I want my inside treated by the water passing through it and leaching it out.  rolleyes
No shouting but is a watering can the only way you fill your tank?  I thought everyone uses a hose at some stage.  The hygiene problem is why I wouldn't use my garden hose to fill my tank if I wanted to travel with it full.
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Post by marconi on Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:44 am

bolero boy wrote:i expect most users of 'food grade' hoses would be pretty shocked to cut one open and see what one looks like inside after a good period of use.....not nice.
when they are rolled or folded, a small amount of water stays inside them...the cant be completely drained and dried each time...
its possible to clean them with stuff like Puriclean...
better not to look...
What a bit like this you mean.

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The above is a section of the water carrying twin tube from a Crystal Caravan external pump system.

I didn't wear the Surgical Mask during the opening up procedure, some of us are made of stronger stuff than that.  smile! The mask was around so I included it for comedic effect.

The tube may well be over 30 years old, it was not in use for more than couple of years, I had several attempts at cleaning it at the time, not very successful as can be seen. I converted the Crystal set up to single replaceable water tube and separate electrics cable. Today I will try several different cleaning solutions on samples from this tube I don't have Puriclean though. I will also dunk a sample in water. I bet the gunk will rejuvenate despite being dormant for 30 years.

On the subject of coated food grade hoses, that black is not activated carbon or colloidal silver, where the water has not been in touch it is clean blue, also the twin tube that carried the wiring always stayed clean.
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Post by Gromit on Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:47 am

Caraman wrote:No shouting but is a watering can the only way you fill your tank?  I thought everyone uses a hose at some stage.  The hygiene problem is why I wouldn't use my garden hose to fill my tank if I wanted to travel with it full.
Hi Caraman

You must have missed an earlier post where I said, "But who would use a watering can to fill up from empty?  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] 

The discussion hinges around exactly how each system is used by the individual.

Having done the sums and applied a bit of logic, I always fill up before the start of a journey using a simple hose and the hole-in-the-wall. (The minimal additional fuel cost is almost impossible to calculate accurately as there are so many other factors, several of which have a far greater effect. So I don't bother about it.)"


I confess that I do use the garden hose, but only after letting it run for quite some time to flush through. Any nasties that have leached into the stale water within the pipe will be swilled out, and so far after nearly 50 years of doing so, we haven't come to any harm (??).

We do drink the water straight from the tap in the van, but I'm careful to sterilise the system regularly and take all the sensible precautions.

Dave


Last edited by Gromit on Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Caraman on Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:48 am

If a food grade hose gets like that I shudder to think what the inside of my garden hose looks like which I will never use for filling the tank.  I hang the Watermaster pump up so water drains out of it so generally its stored dry as is the water barrel.  In contrast a long hose is always going to have trapped water in it.  I give mine a good flush before using it.
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Post by marconi on Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:03 am

Caraman wrote:If a food grade hose gets like that I shudder to think what the inside of my garden hose looks like which I will never use for filling the tank.  I hang the Watermaster pump up so water drains out of it so generally its stored dry as is the water barrel.  In contrast a long hose is always going to have trapped water in it.  I give mine a good flush before using it.

Legionaires Disease is a danger with stored Hoses and Shower heads and pipework. Rare, but still we should take precautions, it affects those with greying hair more than the young, hence the name.

Below
Food grade tubing that has been used on water, Calcium has stuck to the inside, Bacteria can colonise there if not on the tubing surface.

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The results of cleaning attempts on the Crystal pipework samples after two and a half hours of total immersion.

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Sample (1). Very strong warm solution of Citric Acid powder. (2) Very strong warm solution of Bicarbonate of Soda. (3) Weak sterilising solution of Hydrogen Peroxide. (3) Very strong solution of Household Bleach.

It's not the lighting under a magnifying glass the Bicarbonate of Soda has reduced the blackness.

The Bleach has changed the colour but you wouldn't want to use it at that strength if at all in a Motorhome water system.


Last edited by marconi on Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:22 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : photos added)
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whalemaster system and whale external pump - Page 4 Empty Re: whalemaster system and whale external pump

Post by Gromit on Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:17 pm

Hmmmmm?

Can I change the habits of a lifetime, I wonder!!  Whistle1
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