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whalemaster system and whale external pump

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Post by Allan on Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:11 am

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Here is a photo of the arrangements at the back of my external water socket on my Nuevo EK 2013. The whale external pump can be heard working but water isn't getting into the tank. Is there a solenoid or pressure switch somewhere? I can see an adjuster screw - which says do not adjust!? I am at present using the fresh water tank drain tap to fill up (much quicker than the whalemaster or whale water barrel system) but would like to have the choice of using a filled barrel when on site - any ideas?
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:28 am

The Pressure switch is built into the wall socket. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

No idea what the black round thing is. Might be a blocked filter in there? If pump is running power is there so not disabled by a faulty level off switch.

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Post by modelman on Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:27 am

That 'black round thing' looks like a pump to me, if so, then why an external pump as well? 
Unless that 'internal-pump' is off, then the external one will be fighting against it, maybe that internal one has a switch somewhere?? Looks to be wired up.

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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:36 am

Can't think why you would have an inside pump as well as the whale outside pump. Presumably you also have a in-tank or Shurflo type pump for tap delivery?

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Post by Peter Brown on Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:36 am

The 'black thing' is an electrically operated tap (solenoid).  For that tap to open and let water pass to the tank the 12v has to be switched on and a ball valve switch in the tank be made (tank not full).  There is also a filter in the 'tap' casing that readily blocks, remove the tap from the pipe work to get at the filter.
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Post by modelman on Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:48 pm

Something else I just learned.  up!

But why is there a need to control the water IN ??

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Post by Peter Brown on Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:15 pm

The system can be permanently connected to a mains water tap that is open with flow to the fresh water tank being controlled by the ball valve in that tank.
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Post by modelman on Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:28 pm

Wow!!
I just tried to imagine all the vans on site, each with an ehu cable AND water pipes criss- crossing the grass!
Also imagining some sort of 'Christmas-tree type manifold' for the supply-pipes, or all the vans encircling the water supply like the wagons in old cowboy movies.  scratch head

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Post by steamdrivenandy on Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:49 pm

Presumably it's to allow the van to make use of the on pitch water supply facility that so called 'super' or 'full facility' pitches offer, without having to use an external Aquaroll or similar, with ballcock valve. Unlike using the Aquaroll option mentioned it still means the water enters the van at mains pressure, which the Aquaroll option precludes.

It's one of the conundrums of motorhomes in that it complicates life for everybody in a van that can be used off grid by accommodating equipment that is really only useful for those very much on grid, who use the relatively rare and more costly super pitches.
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Post by Gromit on Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:22 pm

steamdrivenandy wrote:It's one of the conundrums of motorhomes in that it complicates life for everybody in a van that can be used off grid by accommodating equipment that is really only useful for those very much on grid, who use the relatively rare and more costly super pitches.
Or in other words Andy, the fact that it can be done is not always a good reason for doing it!!

(Or forcing it on those who don't want it! censored! )

It's camping for goodness sake!!

See this post. Not atypical!! [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Post by IanH on Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:42 pm

modelman wrote:Something else I just learned.  up!

But why is there a need to control the water IN ??
No Idea MM
I, however have complete control over my "water in", you need just three things........

1 The key for the gravity fed filler cap
2 Nearby tap
3 Willing wifey with fold flat water container

When (3) is tired, or when water seen overflowing from (1) tank is generally full!!!

Hard hat now on for the over complex technocrats!!
hugegrins hugegrins hugegrins hugegrins up! allthumbz
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:55 pm

IanH wrote:
modelman wrote:Something else I just learned.  up!

But why is there a need to control the water IN ??
No Idea MM
I, however have complete control over my "water in", you need just three things........

1 The key for the gravity fed filler cap
2 Nearby tap
3 Willing wifey with fold flat water container

When (3) is tired, or when water seen overflowing from (1) tank is generally full!!!

Hard hat now on for the over complex technocrats!!
hugegrins hugegrins hugegrins hugegrins up! allthumbz

Totally agree Ian but can you lend me the wife cos mine isn't so amenable.
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Post by IanH on Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:34 am

Matter of training really, as you're probably aware, a long and complex undertaking!!!!
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:41 am

44 years and we're still on the introductory phase.
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Post by Allan on Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:42 am

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The whalemaster pipe system and whale barrel system with external pump still not filling tank, (recap. from previous posting - external pump chatters when connected up to the whale socket, but no water is drawn into the onboard tank, power is switched on, water pump fuse No 5 checked)
Above are 2 photos - the top one shows the back (inside the van)  of the whale fresh water socket with 3 wires going to it. The word "solenoid" is written along the bottom and there is a + symbol right and a "-" symbol left. The bottom photo shows the solenoid valve (manufacturer - A.u.K. Muller) - removed from the pipework. I have also removed and cleaned the little filter in the pipework. Any further thoughts - thanks for your ideas so far
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Post by Peter Brown on Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:08 am

Now you have it off, if you connect 12v across the solenoid terminals you should be able to hear the unit operate and see the tap open.  Energisation of the system is controlled by the pressure switch built into the water fill point (see diagram below)[note there is another discrete pressure switch in the water distribution system] which may be faulty or require adjustment.

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Post by Allan on Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:19 am

Thanks Peter for you help so far (particularly the whale diagrams). I've put 12V. across the solenoid (away from the van) and you can hear a slight click and I can blow through it when power is applied, so I'm assuming that it's working. With Mains power on in the van and the external pump switch selected at the control panel, the solenoid still doesn't open. When I put a multimeter across the 2 wires which normally go on the solenoid, there is no reading. The same wiring (with some branching under insulation tape) also goes to the back of the Whale socket and this shows a 12V. reading when i check it. Am I right in thinking that the full/empty switch in the fresh water tank, needs to be ON (i.e. tank is empty) in order to allow power to the solenoid terminals so that solenoid can open?  And - does this mean that the the tank switch might be faulty?
Cheers again for your help so far
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Post by Molly3 on Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:32 am

Foolproof  method to fill water tank,   fit a hosepipe to the drain tap  and fill from bottom
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Post by Allan on Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:24 pm

Thanks molly3 for your suggestion (= filling fresh water tank via the drain tap) This is something I already do whenever I arrive on a site (see my initial posting), I agree ........it's quicker than the whale system, but I also want the additional option of a barrel of water outside the van to top-up my water supply when the fresh water tank starts to get low. This saves having to drive the vehicle to the site tap again. I have also wondered recently whether filling from the drain tap (i.e. the bottom of the tank) might have caused a problem with the full/empty switch in the tank?
However - I'm still no nearer to solving my problem > The solenoid supply wires are not getting any power with 
1. Habitation electrics on, 
2. Fresh water tank empty, 
3. Fuse No.5 checked, 
4. External pump selected at control panel, 
5. Solenoid unit tested to work when removed from pipework. 
I'm trying to avoid taking it to a dealer and spending a fortune!
Again, can I ask for any further suggestions?
cheers
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:40 pm

A watering can to keep the tank topped up is much less faff and provides some exercise.
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:06 pm

There are two pump fuses, 5 & 6? Is the filler lid locked in place?

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Post by IanH on Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:10 pm

steamdrivenandy wrote:A watering can to keep the tank topped up is much less faff and provides some exercise.
Couldn't agree more, uses gravity as the only power source as well!!! (Except getting wifey to tap with watering can!!)
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Post by Peter Brown on Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:35 pm

Allan, the switch in the tap does need to be on to operate the solenoid. On the tank you will see 5 wires connected to the level measuring studs. There should be another two wires connected to the float switch, if you follow them back into the harness you will likely find connectors in those wires. At that point you can disconnect them and check operation of the switch with a continuity tester, you can also connect together the two wires that go into the harness to check if the system works without the switch in circuit.
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Post by safariboy on Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:33 am

I had a problem with the sergeant control panel which was cured by a complete shutdown (Hold in switch until everything goes off) followed by a restart.
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Post by IslandSparky on Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:40 am

I had this system on our Cotswold, but it was very unreliable. I have since removed the solenoid valve and associated electrics and run a wire to the socket for the external pump. A switch above the sink energises the pump when I want it on. As we are mostly off grid with a tap the other side of the field, I use my Aquaroll to fetch water and pump in using the external pump, easy.
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