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EM 40 and Trailer Board

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Liam
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Post by glyne lock Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:30 pm

mids
the reason for the law to fit triangles was to identify its a trailer then as I had one day a car tried to over take my trailer and force its way in thinking it was 2 trucks  then had a head on with a car coming towards us
in your picture I could not see if you also have a fog light  .when fitting extras as you have done its best to read the attachment rogerblack  sent to make sure you have done every thing legal .because you have extended  the back the new lights have to be  a set distance from the side of the vehicle and a set distance from the ground . you may also need a side marker  . if you get pulled by a vosa  vehicle or that nice police officer you my not be able to  move until you are legal
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Post by Caraman Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:22 am

My read of the regulations is that all the rear lights fitted to the back of the motorhome less the reversing light have to be viewable from the rear from the angles stated in the regulations.  Therefore the only lights that must be replicated on the lighting board are those that are obscured or partly obscured when viewed from these angles.  If the fog light (or any other light) is not obscured then technically I don’t think it has to be replicated.  This is significant because not all lighting boards come with a fog light but mine does; I only had to change the reflectors.  A limitation of many lighting boards mine included is that the number plate illumination comes from the inside of each light cluster which restricts the distance the light clusters can be apart.  This in turn means that the light clusters may not be sufficiently close to the edge of the vehicle.  If they were on a motorhome the lighting board would have to be longer than any I have seen.  When I queried this with the C&MC they said it didn’t matter.  The lights on the back of the current range of AS coachbuilts have a large vertical spread.  Providing the lighting board sits within this spread its height from the ground should be OK.  I haven’t found a regulation that states the angle a number plate must be viewable from above.  My guess is that it’s 15 degrees as this is the angle the lights must be viewable from above.  This is significant as an overhanging load can obscure the rear number plate when viewed from above e.g. a motorway bridge.
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Post by Caraman Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:48 am

This is the Question I posed to the C&MC and their Answer:


  • Is there a distance from the edge of the motorhome within which the lighting board’s light clusters must be located?  If so, do any of the lighting boards that are typically available in UK meet this requirement?


Yes, but I believe any standard lighting board will be acceptable.
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Post by rogerblack Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:45 am

Sorry to stray slightly off topic but Craman brings up an interesting point.

When I have my four rail bike rack down, especially with the back box fitted, there is no problem with it obscuring any lights or the number plate from following traffic as it's fairly high up. However I have wondered whether the rear number plate would still be visible from a speed camera (not that I speed these days!): I hadn't considered from a motorway bridge.

If the regs say 15 degrees, I guess I should check against that.


One of these days I'll get around to it.   tap_fingers

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Post by marconi Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:32 pm

It is indeed 15 degrees Vertical there is a 10 feet exclusion zone directly behind from the center of the number plate and an angle of 45 degrees either side. You should when standing behind be able to see the plate after 10 feet.

With the 2019 Nuevo etc, the Policeman would have to be 3 feet tall to see it at 10 feet. When the rack is down and empty the plate is partially obscured. Put a loaf of bread on the rack at the nearest point to the back of the van and it is fully obscured.

Seeing the lights from the opposite side of the vehicle at an angle of 45 degrees is impossible with a bike or a box on the rack. Not having a cover on the bike doesn't count because the lights are still partially obscured.

Oh and the 15 degree vertical line extends out to a distance of  75 feet.
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Post by Caraman Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:55 pm

This is what the C&MC said last year:


  • Is there a viewing angle from above where the motorhome’s rear number plate must 'be clearly visible' i.e.unobscured by the overhanging bicycle rack or its cover?


I cannot find a specific reference defining and angle for this, but there is a general requirement for it not to be obscured, with implication that this includes visibility by things like speed cameras which will generally look appreciably downwards (especially on motorways)
On the distance issue between the rear lights and the rear edge of the vehicle, I think it may only apply to the lights that are fixed on the back of the vehicle including trailers. It may not apply to lights that supplement the fixed lights e.g. those on a lighting board fitted on a rear bike rack because the fixed rear lights will be seen by an overtaking vehicle on the overtaking side.
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Post by Mids Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:34 pm

Before anyone says about wrong waring symbol. Has to be changed to a rectangle. But I now dont have to worry about obscuerd  lights. Just the job[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Post by Caraman Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 pm

I keep experimenting with the securing my lighting board.  The best arrangement so far is fit the bikes on the rack. Tie the lighting board with two short cords passed through it’s holes to the lowest part of the rack passing each cord through the lower spokes of each wheel.  The board is quite secure.  If I fit my TaylorMade cover the bottom with its elasticated drawcord tucks in between the lighting board and the rack with the end of the drawcord passed through the lower part of the rack so it doesn’t ride up and obscure the lighting board.
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Post by Mids Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:00 pm

My bikes are totally  enclosed with the flamma bike cover
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Post by Caraman Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:29 pm

Mids wrote:My bikes are totally  enclosed with the flamma bike cover
I'm not familiar with the Fiamma but the fit of my TayorMade is unaffected by the lighting board.  It covers the bikes but is not designed to completely wrap under the rack.  Its lower drawcord tightens the bottom of the cover sufficiently to stop it riding up the rack.  Mine is a bit oversize as its for e-bikes which we don't have and sometimes I only take one bike.
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Post by Mids Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:54 pm

It's the fiamma premium  s bike cover. Works real well
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Post by natmat Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:05 am

marconi wrote:
Relaxez-Vous wrote:Just interested here, our van also has a EM40 fuse box unit with fuses labelled "Towing" and "Towing D+". Is the VLM5 a separate box into which the lighting for the trailer board would be plugged, does this plug into the EM40 or the Sargent EC700 PSU?

At the back of our EM40 when I last looked there was a Molex shaped socket mounted on the PCB but it only had a few connections.

The EM40 provides the fusing of Vehicle battery Power for a typical Caravan set up with the D+ there is a 3 pin Towing socket, the VLM5 covers the vehicle lighting, the inputs to it will be from the Vehicle wiring plus the Can bus. Not sure about any other connections to it off the top of my head.

My AS 2017 Broadway EB Fiat only has the EM40 fitted.

I tried wiring my trailer board PZ2500 relay unit to both -/+ and -/D+ for power, but neither would drive the board’s lights.
In the end chose to provide fused supply directly from battery, which worked.

Any ideas why the EM -/+ 3-pin socket’s outputs would not power the lights? The buzzer on relay did sound when first powered, but insufficient current to even light a single bulb when connected between the -/+ lines themselves. Maybe it’s a logic line for the VLMS,, which I don’t have.
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Post by Caraman Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:55 am

natmat wrote:
marconi wrote:
Relaxez-Vous wrote:Just interested here, our van also has a EM40 fuse box unit with fuses labelled "Towing" and "Towing D+". Is the VLM5 a separate box into which the lighting for the trailer board would be plugged, does this plug into the EM40 or the Sargent EC700 PSU?

At the back of our EM40 when I last looked there was a Molex shaped socket mounted on the PCB but it only had a few connections.

The EM40 provides the fusing of Vehicle battery Power for a typical Caravan set up with the D+ there is a 3 pin Towing socket, the VLM5 covers the vehicle lighting, the inputs to it will be from the Vehicle wiring plus the Can bus. Not sure about any other connections to it off the top of my head.

My AS 2017 Broadway EB Fiat only has the EM40 fitted.

I tried wiring my trailer board PZ2500 relay unit to both -/+ and -/D+ for power, but neither would drive the board’s lights.
In the end chose to provide fused supply directly from battery, which worked.

Any ideas why the EM -/+ 3-pin socket’s outputs would not power the lights? The buzzer on relay did sound when first powered, but insufficient current to even light a single bulb when connected between the -/+ lines themselves. Maybe it’s a logic line for the VLMS,, which I don’t have.
I can't help you on that.  It might be worth asking Sargent.  They should also know when the VLM5 was introduced and confirm that yours doesn't have one.  One of the posts on this thread suggests the VLM5 was introduced when lower bike rack mounting points were introduced which may have coincided with raising the rear lights.  I assume you have read my post from 2 years ago:

"If you switch on your hazard warning lights, you will get a clicking noise from the front and a clicking noise from the back which is coming from the VLM5 unit.  That should help you find it."
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Post by natmat Thu Aug 25, 2022 8:51 am

Hi @caraman,

Yes, I read all your posts and all others relating to the EM40.

I liked the 'listen for the 2nd device clicking with the hazard lights on [to locate the VLMS unit]...', but I heard nothing.
I've fitted my relay under the bottom draw in the EB where others say their VLMS was located; but there was no device there.

I shall call Sargent today for advice.
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Post by natmat Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:54 pm

Update:

I found Sargent tech support very helpful. They even found an EM40 on the bench, powered-it up and confirmed some  things for me whilst on the phone. Suggested I test continuity between the TowBar socket +/- and the Vin/Vout +/- terminals. With Volt/continuity tester in hand, I traced found a dry(-ish) joint on its wiring board so the ground was intermittent. Quickly resolved. 

Now I have gnd/VD+ wired to the PZ2500, gnd to the 12N pin7 gnd too. L/R ind/tail and brake to the PZ and all good. 3 chirps from PZ when I start the engine, buzz in sync with indicator pulse if the board attached.

Ready for next trip.
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