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Love my Broadway.......but

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Post by Flyingv58 on Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:35 pm

We got our Broadway during summer 2018. If I'm correct this was the first year that a/s put LED lighting on the rear lights. At first everything seemed fine although I couldn't understand why the engine had to be running before any of the rear lights worked. Anyway, we put this to the back of our minds and enjoyed our van for the rest of the season. Forward to 2019 and the van went into Peugeot garage for interim service. Picked the van up that day and whilst driving home I get a dashboard warning to check side lights. Pulled off motorway and jumped out to check lights. All lights working normally except front marker lights. Over the next few days I spent time checking fuses etc and reading forums for solutions. 

Still hadn't resolved the marker light issue but headed away for the weekend. Got 40 miles from home and van went into limp mode. Got breakdown out and they confirmed the body control module had gave up the ghost. There is another saga in how I eventually got my van to an authorised Peugeot garage, but that's for another day. Anyway, the body control module was replaced but the garage could not clear the side light fault. They said that the vehicle had non standard wiring due to being a coachbuilt motorhome and they couldn't work on it. To compound this the dealer that I bought from went temporarily bust and other local motorhome dealers wouldn't touch my van.

I contacted Autosleeper directly and to be fair to them they were very helpful. They sent me some spare parts to swap over the Sargent components. Just as I received these parts my selling dealer managed to resume trading again, so I asked them to swap over the supplied VLM 5 module under warranty. They did this but still the side light fault persisted. Up until this point I had resisted the temptation to investigate myself due to invalidating my warranty,  but this was the last straw and I  decided that I might as well get my hands dirty.

I knew from the forums that the front marker lights were fed via the Sargent EM50 interface. I cut the marker light wiring just before it went external to the marker lights and connected an external 12v supply to the marker lights. They worked fine. I then moved this wiring cut down towards the EM50 interface in order to prove the wiring. I got to the stage where the wiring was good all the way back to just outside the EM50 interface. Next I unscrewed the EM50 interface from the bodywork and lo and behold I see two yellow/black wires lying coiled up and not connected to anything. After a bit of messing about I confirm that one of these wires is in fact the supply to the front marker lights. I spliced this wire into the marker light circuit on the EM50 interface. Marker lights all working and warning light on dashboard has gone out. Conclusion; Autosleeper had never connected the front marker lights into the EM50.

Hope you're still with me here............

Moving on to 2020, I decided to fit a lighting board for my cycle rack. Many of you will be aware that when bikes are carried on the rack of some models the bike wheels can partially obscure the vehicle rear lights. After a bit of searching on this forum I found the necessary info to enable me to fit a 13 pin socket via the VLM5 module. I connected all this up, but when it came to testing I kept getting an indicator light fault on the dashboard. Although I was getting this fault warning all the lights including the lightboard were working normally.

 I got in touch with Sargent support and over the next few days they explained how the VLM5 module works. Sargent said that there is a permanent 12v supply to the VLM5 and this is indicated by a red LED on the VLM5. I could only see this LED if the van engine was running. Back to Sargent who told me that the VLM5  gets the constant 12v from the EM50. So once again I unscrewed the EM50 interface from the bodywork. I'm looking at the wires going into the EM50. I'm looking particularly for two wires. One is coloured red/yellow, the other is coloured brown/green. These are the permanent and switched supplies between the EM50 and the VLM5. The circuit boards on the Sargent stuff is quite clearly marked. 
So I'm looking at two terminals. One is marked "switched R/Y", the other is marked "permanent  B/G". The switched terminal has a brown/green wire connected and the permanent terminal has nothing connected. I pondered this for about ten seconds before disconnecting the brown/green wire from the switched terminal and connecting it to the permanent terminal. Without starting the engine I then checked the VLM5 and lo and behold I had a shiny bright LED. My side lights at the rear now also worked without starting the engine. Plugged in my lighting board and hey presto, everything working normally and no fault light on dash. Conclusion; Autosleeper didn't connect the wiring to the correct terminal. 

This is our second Autosleeper, the first being a Fairford PVC. We wanted something a bit bigger so bought the Broadway.  Our previous three vans before Autosleeper were Hobby vans and I have to admit that the habitation electrics were far superior to what I've experienced with Autosleeper. 

Did I get the "Friday" van, did the new LED rear end throw Autosleeper a curve ball for the first run of 2018 coachbuilts or is this the norm. Sargent support has been great and as already mentioned Autosleeper have been very helpful but where was quality control at the build stage.

I'm going outside now to sit in the "All lights working, fully functional self contained isolation pod" that stands in my driveway.
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Post by kaspian on Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:33 pm

No you are not alone , our just bought 2017 Warwick xl had faulty wiring to interior lighting from new. Interior overhead  lights only worked by a combination of 4 unrelated switches internally being in the right position and the exterior awning light on all the time! Previous owner got main dealer to check but they apparently could not rectify so he just lived with the issues. I got a low resolution pdf of the wiring harness from Sargent which had poor resolution issues making parts unreadable  and they were no help with questions regarding the diagram which was a basic wire harness plan only. They were unable to answer any technical questions after numerous calls and ignored polite e mails to 2 of their technical support specialists asking for clarity of the diagram as they must have the master copy . 
         A/ s were no better and could not even tell me what each switch at the sliding door was intended to be used for. I ended up on the 3rd call asking the female if ANYONE at A/s could help by telling me the intended function of the 4 switches at the door but she said no one knew. In disbelief  I asked in that case how do you know how to build them correctly?     The rats nest standard of wiring does not help.?..After that I gave up and luckily a couple of owners on this forum kindly checked their Van's and gave me each switch layout and its function. I also had kind offers to help with the wiring  but had by then resolved all issues by a combination of 40 years wiring experience and reverse engineering the pdf file diagram. 
      Let's just say the wiring harness was incorrect, like you, wires had been connected wrongly at build and an important diode left out to block back feeds from another fused supply. Now all lights work logically , I have marked each switch with its function as all.   A/s Van's seem to require 'press and see and hope '   to work out what each switch  does ..... 
     Sometimes ignorance is bliss as in our previous van I wired the towbar to the battery for perm fused  live and picked up lights at rear clusters using a bypass relay controller, worked first time and no issues afterwards. Only with this van did I see that the Sargent  interface had that facility.
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Post by Richard G on Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:44 pm

Bought my 2015 Nuevo ES secondhand, has a bike rack. It also has a caravan socket already wired in ,underneath nearside rear end, only noticed it when looking at spare wheel etc. Was this a standard fitment or add on, it looks original to me, no record of fitting in documentation. Its a simple item to build in from new , maybe it was standard.
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Post by davey on Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:43 pm

Autosleeper are only as good the fitters that they employ,after all it is the workers that carry a companies reputation
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Post by Kemerton-bath on Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:35 pm

davey wrote:Autosleeper are only as good the fitters that they employ,after all it is the workers that carry a companies reputation
Yes, but there’s a lot more to it than that.  Design skill, choice of materials and onboard systems, oversight and checking, user documentation, and the after-sales approach are all just as important.

Compared to many van suppliers, AS are good, but not to the extent they think they are. All too often the problems are easily avoidable, as illustrated in this thread and elsewhere on the forum.  Some of the failures are repeated with almost monotonous regularity, and evidence suggests that the overall build quality has been in decline over recent years.

The leisure sector, like many others, is going to take a battering in the current world crisis and I hope AS survives. Maybe with less pressure on production volume going through the factory it will take the opportunity to look closely at its quality systems, and re-emerge from this mess with vans that are of a consistently better build quality, supplied with the right handbooks and backed up by a more supportive after-sales team.

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Post by bikeralw on Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:04 pm

It does beggar belief that this sort of thing is allowed to get past quality control, if there is any! 
We're expected to pay what, £40,000 or more above the basic price of a van chassis for some cheap cabinets and fixtures. At least you'd expect the complicated bits, such as wiring, to be done by a competent person..
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Post by Cymro on Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:09 pm

Richard G wrote:Bought my 2015 Nuevo ES secondhand, has a bike rack. It also has a caravan socket already wired in ,underneath nearside rear end, only noticed it when looking at spare wheel etc. Was this a standard fitment or add on, it looks original to me, no record of fitting in documentation. Its a simple item to build in from new , maybe it was standard.

I doubt if it was a standard fitment.  We also have a March 2015 NuevoES, with a bike rack, factory fitted (the Fiamma wind-up type). No caravan socket underneath.

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Post by Flyingv58 on Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:00 pm

Kemerton-bath wrote:


Compared to many van suppliers, AS are good, but not to the extent they think they are. All too often the problems are easily avoidable, as illustrated in this thread and elsewhere on the forum.  Some of the failures are repeated with almost monotonous regularity, and evidence suggests that the overall build quality has been in decline over recent years.


I think this nails it. The repeat failures are concerning. I feel for people with 2019 Mercedes based coachbuilts. They pay roughly about £15k over the price of the equivalent Peugeot based model and then have to contend with electrical glitches between the base vehicle and the habitation system. Product testing seems to be left to the purchaser.

It's not all doom and gloom however. I love the layout of the Broadway. We opted for the over cab bed and dinette as we take our grandkids away a few times each year. They play in the over cab leaving us floor space below. The European layouts don't appeal to me anymore as I think the seating area is too cramped.
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Post by ajrm on Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:19 pm

We had a new 2013 Broadway. One of the things that annoyed me was the fact that the LPG level gauge was rubbish. When it showed empty, we still had 1/3 tank of gas. 
I did some investigation of the Gas-it installation and discovered the tank had been fitted at the wrong angle. There are specific instructions as to how it should be fitted and Autosleeper seemed to have ignored them.
I contacted AS and told them what I had found. They said they would look into it. 
Turned out they didn't know about these specific fitting instructions and would give our dealer the information so they could modify my tank.
I didn't take up their offer but sold the van shortly afterwards.
We loved the van and kept it for 3 years, but had so many silly niggly faults that screamed poor quality control. Luckily, I was able to fix most of them myself.

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Post by rventhusiast on Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:08 am

ajrm - it's not just A/S that don't know how to properly fit underslung gas tanks. We had a new IH that had similar problems with gauging the fill level. I took it to Autogas 2000 in Thirsk and they saw it as soon as it was on the ramp - fitted at the wrong angle - and there was a label on the side of the tank advising the correct angle!

I suspect that most dealers wouldn't have a clue either.

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Post by bikeralw on Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:18 am

I know maybe it would add to the cost, but shouldn't there be some sort of independent basic standards and tests that motorhome manufactures have to subject their models to before introduction. Much like the standards vehicle manufactures have to comply with.
If any serious defects come to light after a new motorhome model is launched it has to be recalled and fixed free of charge.
I'm sure that would help in making sure the van is fit for purpose before release.
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Post by Flyingv58 on Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:31 pm

bikeralw wrote:I know maybe it would add to the cost, but shouldn't there be some sort of independent basic standards and tests that motorhome manufactures have to subject their models to before introduction. Much like the standards vehicle manufactures have to comply with.
If any serious defects come to light after a new motorhome model is launched it has to be recalled and fixed free of charge.
I'm sure that would help in making sure the van is fit for purpose before release.
Al.

Spot on, a motorhome costs a huge chunk of money and all they seem to care about is the thermal grade of the insulation. And then they put all the water tanks on the outside!!
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Post by bolero boy on Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:51 pm

Flyingv58 wrote:
bikeralw wrote:I know maybe it would add to the cost, but shouldn't there be some sort of independent basic standards and tests that motorhome manufactures have to subject their models to before introduction. Much like the standards vehicle manufactures have to comply with.
If any serious defects come to light after a new motorhome model is launched it has to be recalled and fixed free of charge.
I'm sure that would help in making sure the van is fit for purpose before release.
Al.

Spot on, a motorhome costs a huge chunk of money and all they seem to care about is the thermal grade of the insulation. And then they put all the water tanks on the outside!!
"Grade 3 insulation" has little to do with the insulation/winterisation capability of a MH, merely the performance of the heater...
as you say, the vast majority of UK vans with their exposed tanks and pipework cant function in really cold weather as everything is exposed to the elements....whats the point of a 'grade 3 insulation' label if the van cant be operated for a prolonged period in the depths of winter without having to drain the water system....

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Post by Richard G on Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:45 pm

Agree ref the winterisation feature. My Nuevo dumps all the water tank at 3 degrees so no water anyway. Went away for a weekend recently with half tank, got there and no water!  And my gas guage is useless, reads empty with 15 usable litres left of 20 .
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Post by Cymro on Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:51 am

Richard G: We have the same NUevoES 2015 edition. Our gas tank gaugue was also inaccurate. We had it re-aligned as per Gasit's specification, and since then it's accurate enough.

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Post by inspiredron on Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:42 pm

Richard G wrote:Agree ref the winterisation feature. My Nuevo dumps all the water tank at 3 degrees so no water anyway. Went away for a weekend recently with half tank, got there and no water!  And my gas guage is useless, reads empty with 15 usable litres left of 20 .
I am very surprised that your Nuevo dumped half a tank of water while you were en route. While the engine is running habitation electrics are switched off so the water pump won't work. The water tank is lower than the dump valve so water cannot get to the dump valve without the pump working. The dump valve will drain the hot tank which is higher than the valve. s soon as you arrived at your destination and switched on the hab electrics and the pump the hot tank would try to fill and empty through the dump valve. In 5 minutes that could lose half a tank of water
BUT if that is not what happened (and you would have heard the pump if it did) then please don't blame the dump valve - you may have a leak from the tank or have left the fresh water drain valve partly open.


Last edited by inspiredron on Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:05 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Typo)

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Post by gassygassy on Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:09 pm

ajrm - I was going to ask what van you have now as a result of not liking the A/S. I have had similar problems with Rapido and Pilote - when all along I thought I should have been buying a Burstner. I take it that you are happy with the Burstner.
What is even more annoying is that just before The Event I was trying to persuade Management to let me buy a Burstner and she shouted at me a lot. That's normal. Anyway I didn't and now my savings have plummeted by three times what it would have cost me to change to a used Burstner. Trouble is, I can't get to grips with their names and numbers but it was an end bathroom about 6mtr with an electric bed - that's probably the reason we didn't go for it after experiencing our new Rapido's non existent construction quality nor production quality and the dealer's after sales incompetence. Thankfully I got the installation workshop manual from the designer of the electric bed in Italy, and fixed the fault myself. Then there were the other faults . . . . . 
In car manufacturing if there is one fault in a thousand of an item, that supplier is stopped until they have rectified the problem. One in ten thousand is accepted, anything less is actioned.


Last edited by gassygassy on Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:29 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by gassygassy on Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:27 pm

WELL I NEVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT:

I read about the 'wrong angle' of fitting the underslung gas tank and hastily went to the GasIt web site to find out what is correct. It should not be bolted directly to the vertical chassis rail but angled using a (presumably special) mounting bracket. Looking at one end of the tank, along its length, the special mounting bracket should be at 105 degrees from horizontal, in other words at the 'twenty five minutes to" or 'twenty five minutes past' angle. If that doesn't make any sense here is the GasIt video:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Post by rventhusiast on Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:40 pm

gassygassy wrote:WELL I NEVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT:

I read about the 'wrong angle' of fitting the underslung gas tank and hastily went to the GasIt web site to find out what is correct. It should not be bolted directly to the vertical chassis rail but angled using a (presumably special) mounting bracket. Looking at one end of the tank, along its length, the special mounting bracket should be at 105 degrees from horizontal, in other words at the 'twenty five minutes to" or 'twenty five minutes past' angle. If that doesn't make any sense here is the GasIt video:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Not only should the cradle hold the tank at the correct angle but it should be much stronger and robust than the flimsy steel ones usually fitted.

Whilst having my IH van refitted at the correct angle Autogas 2000 also fitted heavy duty cradles which they manufacture in house - and they are substantial. As if to reinforce the point a large Hymer pulled into the yard trailing the equally large lpg tank that was holding on just by the remainder of the front strap - luckily, he had been staying at the Caravan Club site at Thirsk Racecourse when it fell off and just made it to Autogas.

One other thing they did for me was to spray the whole tank and cradle assembly with an anti stone chip coating - one of the problems of the original tank and straps is that they are powder coated and once they start to let water in under the coating it is difficult to see how badly corroded the straps or tank has become.

Have refillable cylinders in our Worcester now so no more undersloung headaches but, if I were ever to have an underslung tank again my first [ort of call would be to Autogas 2000 to have the necessary work carried out.

David
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Post by Richard G on Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:00 pm

Had a look at my underslung gas tank and its at 90 degrees, so needs realigning, looks like rear fixing is not moveable, so probably a garage job, who does this sort of job...mechanic or gas man?
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Post by gassygassy on Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:54 am

Definitely a GasIt dealer not a mechanic. Here is the map of GasIt dealers:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
But at a guess it looks to me as if your nearest would be AutoSleepers, and if yours is fitted wrong by them in the first place it's no good going there. I know from experience that they are not interested in any 'this was faulty from when you built it' arguments on a 2105 model so I wouldn't go there. My local agent is a small independent garage, who might be open now in preference to starving. If yours is on the road currently (I guess a lot of us are SORNd it might be worth a few phone calls to find an agent who is open.
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Post by Cymro on Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:01 am

To be fair to AS, when I asked them to correct the angle of my gas tank suring a service and warranty visit, they did so free of charge without any quibble. Thereafter the gauge is accurate.
I didn't then know about the propensity of the brackets / straps to rusting, and so haven't addressed that. And this mornin'd rain means I ain't going under there today! But I may rub on some AFC50 or some black Waxoyl - depending entirely on what I find.

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Post by Richard G on Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:50 pm

gassygassy wrote:Definitely a GasIt dealer not a mechanic. Here is the map of GasIt dealers:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
But at a guess it looks to me as if your nearest would be AutoSleepers, and if yours is fitted wrong by them in the first place it's no good going there. I know from experience that they are not interested in any 'this was faulty from when you built it' arguments on a 2105 model so I wouldn't go there. My local agent is a small independent garage, who might be open now in preference to starving. If yours is on the road currently (I guess a lot of us are SORNd it might be worth a few phone calls to find an agent who is open.
Thanks for info, there is a gas-it at North Cotswold Motorhomes GL55 postcode, will contact them, if ever we are allowed out!

Thanks

RG
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Post by jtidbury on Sat May 09, 2020 10:47 am

On these new versions of these models the LED tail lights cannot be recognised by the Peugeot body computer - it assumes the low current means the lights are not working and shows an error message. AS therefore fit some resisters in the circuit to fool the computer. These (I believe are under the back of the van) and they can fail - I had mine replaced after a year of mostly summer driving - I only found out when driving through long tunnels in Austria when an error message said "check parking lights"!
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Post by gassygassy on Sat May 09, 2020 7:01 pm

Huh. The computer should be programmed to accept LED tail lights. I'm not impressed with whoever decided to fit LED tail lights and fail to reprogram the computer. Another reason not to buy a new A/S. Seems to me the older ones are better. Pre-2016.
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