Fill onboard gas tank from propane bottle

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Post by Gromit on Mon 10 Feb 2020 - 16:35

bolero boy wrote:id be far more worried about (and the sggestions for) back filling gas into the system via an external gas point designed as an output point, not an input point..
Why?
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Post by Kemerton-bath on Mon 10 Feb 2020 - 16:48

bolero boy wrote:
Kemerton-bath wrote:I agree Peter, well said Roli.  I’ve been wincing at some of the suggestions on this thread, some of them made by a poster who doesn’t even own an AS van so won’t know exactly what’s fitted.  While the principles might apply across all gas systems the fact remains that jury-rigging with LPG is just asking for trouble, unless you happen to work with the stuff professionally and have the appropriate competence.

Tim
Tim, i guess you might be rferring to me?....
I was indeed.  

This thread has become potentially hazardous, which is why I was glad to see Roli make the Moderator statement he did.  The original query concerned refilling an underslung Propane tank but the thread got into a different scenario about running the gas appliances from an external bottle via the barbecue point.  Then it moved further into refillable bottle territory.  All very interesting ... but veering into confusing and therefore dangerous waters.

LPG doesn’t take prisoners, it’s volatile stuff and the thread gives the impression that with the right hose and attachments, it’s just a case of “plug and play”.  It isn’t. Unless users have professionally certified competence, are familiar with the gas system fitted by AS and are using it as it was designed to be, then they should leave well alone.  

If someone wishes to risk blowing themselves up in order to boil a kettle then that’s their decision, but I’d rather not be on the next pitch, nor even the same campsite.  Sorry if that sounds a bit dramatic but this is one area where there is very little room for error.

Tim

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Post by Gromit on Mon 10 Feb 2020 - 19:32

Kemerton-bath wrote:LPG doesn’t take prisoners.
Wise words indeed Tim.  smile!

Do you think that part of the confusion has been generated by the "special" Gaslow or Gas-It hose, and the assumption that it really is a simple "plug and play device" because it comes from those respected suppliers?

Significant knowledge is required to understand exactly what function it will, or will not achieve, and (quite understandably) many comments on here indicate that there is a lot of confusion.

It is designed for one function only - to run your van's gas system from an upright external bottle in an emergency, when the underslung tank or refillable bottle has been emptied, and no refill facility is available, utilising idiot proof connections that cannot possibly be fitted incorrectly to create a potentially dangerous situation.

Repeat . . . With an upright external bottle!!!
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Post by Kemerton-bath on Mon 10 Feb 2020 - 19:58

I'm sure that is part of the problem Gromit. There are many such cases ... e.g. anyone, regardless of their electrical installation competence, can wander into B&Q and buy everything needed to re-wire their house.  Best not go down that rabbit hole though!

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Post by roli on Mon 10 Feb 2020 - 21:00

For want of boring you I speak as someone who undertook annual recert of the Pressure Systems and Transportable GasContainersAct until retirement so i am no idiot where compressed gases and the likes of LPG are concerned.  
This thread has now wandered please don’t make me lock it on safety grounds

My current van has a fixed system and I fitted a GasIt refillable system on the last van so am quite conversant on options
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Fill onboard gas tank from propane bottle  - Page 2 Empty Don't do it

Post by marconi on Mon 10 Feb 2020 - 21:34

I deliberately skirted the refilling subject, I didn't want to go down that road.

It is alarming what some people do due to lack of understanding. I took a photograph of  a big Calor cylinder standing upside down, outside the gas locker, against the A Frame, of a Caravan on a Caravan Club CL site with a long pipe running into the gas locker. I was happy to be the other end of the field for just one night.
When I took the photo in the morning the van owner was out. I asked other members on site who owned the van, 'a big guy with his wife and two young children'.
I asked if they had mentioned it to him, 'yes he says it works much better that way' I informed the CL owner of the danger and sent the picture to the Caravan Club, asking that they print a gas safety article in the Club magazine including the picture as there had been no such articles that I could remember. They thanked me for the picture, there was no further response.
Back to motorhomes with refillable cylinders and tanks, personally l don't rely on the 15 minute safety shut down of the refrigerator. I shut off the gas taps for travel and use a token system to make sure I do so without fail.
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Post by Libraryman2 on Mon 10 Feb 2020 - 21:53

As I read the information on the gasit site, it gives fairly straight forward information about the hose use..with the external bottle upright and gas tight, the system should be safe..attached as indicated to the internal thread of the refill point on your van.

I use this method and I see no reason why the onboard tank needs to be empty before connecting the external supply! 
The vapour will pressurise the onboard tank as the liquid gas is used up.
Unfortunately it’s difficult for anyone qualified with the correct knowledge to offer advise because of the legal risks but it would be great ....if....a suitable disclaimer were used and this thread was closed!
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Post by Gromit on Mon 10 Feb 2020 - 22:22

Libraryman2 wrote:As I read the information on the gasit site, it gives fairly straight forward information about the hose use..with the external bottle upright and gas tight, the system should be safe..attached as indicated to the internal thread of the refill point on your van.

I use this method and I see no reason why the onboard tank needs to be empty before connecting the external supply! 
The vapour will pressurise the onboard tank as the liquid gas is used up.
Unfortunately it’s difficult for anyone qualified with the correct knowledge to offer advise because of the legal risks but it would be great ....if....a suitable disclaimer were used and this thread was closed!
The onboard tank doesn't need to be emptied, and there's no danger whether it is or isn't since the hose is still being used exactly as it is intended. This being the vital aspect concerning safety.

The only snag is that it's debatable whether the onboard tank or the external bottle would primarily supply the system (assuming one took priority over the other) and therefore empty first. If it is the former, the whole exercise is rather pointless.
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Post by Phil j on Mon 10 Feb 2020 - 22:30

Beginning to wish I hadn’t asked the question now!

As I said I WILL NOT be buying the hose let alone try to fill tank ! I would hate for someone to have an accident after reading this thread . Should  Admin wish to close /delete thread then fine with me 
Cheers 
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Post by glyne lock on Mon 10 Feb 2020 - 23:48

LPG  dangers yes lots
when you fill up at a fuel station you use a pump that also has high risk putting liquid into your tank that comes from a large bottle (tank) and the liquid comes from the bottom of the bottle.
 the opso is fitted to cover a lot of safety points people have said about in this post.
how many have got the old regulator and should be turning off the gas when driving
why have autosleepers not fitted the inline filter as truma SAYS needs to be fitted.
when using the fridge on gas we are not  safe as to how autosleeper have fitted some i have seen.
as to the calor spec sheets  if calor could they would stop us filling the correct refillable bottles  tanks.
 the correct spec sheets with a gas it refillable tank we should be reading is the gas it sheets
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Post by bolero boy on Tue 11 Feb 2020 - 8:09

Gromit wrote:
Libraryman2 wrote:As I read the information on the gasit site, it gives fairly straight forward information about the hose use..with the external bottle upright and gas tight, the system should be safe..attached as indicated to the internal thread of the refill point on your van.

I use this method and I see no reason why the onboard tank needs to be empty before connecting the external supply! 
The vapour will pressurise the onboard tank as the liquid gas is used up.
Unfortunately it’s difficult for anyone qualified with the correct knowledge to offer advise because of the legal risks but it would be great ....if....a suitable disclaimer were used and this thread was closed!
The onboard tank doesn't need to be emptied, and there's no danger whether it is or isn't since the hose is still being used exactly as it is intended. This being the vital aspect concerning safety.

The only snag is that it's debatable whether the onboard tank or the external bottle would primarily supply the system (assuming one took priority over the other) and therefore empty first. If it is the former, the whole exercise is rather pointless.
which was how i described it, yet i was still singled out for criticism (on tne basis i dont own an AS) despite the 'stand the bottle on its head' suggestion coming from another poster.

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