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All batteries flat - I’m on my own

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Post by bolero boy on Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:03 pm

if advising a customer to ensure that all batteries are being charged from all of the sources of alternator, ehu and solar is bad, then i am guilty of the offence.
some might say that the system supplied by AS/Sargent is wonderful, others (who have posted who are having difficulties) might care to differ.
flat batteries and the like seem to be the most common thread on this forum and the Sargent system does have constraints/quirks.
a couple of examples.....maximum solar power capability, some PSU so power hungry they use more power than they put in....
i had a Sargent system on my Bolero which worked well, but this is not a swift forum this is an AS one and we are discussing the shortcomings of a system that, to me, appears to be far from a 'fit and forget' one....
as on other 'Branded' forums, any critcism is likely to be met with staunch defence....just visit SwiftTalk or get into debate with Bailey posters....but my short time on this forum has shown me that there are plenty of AS owners who are having a bad time getting to grips with the 'battery systems' as fitted...this is not a good sign, despite the stalwarts' ripostes....
i have no axe to grind on any forum, merely posting to add some 'balance' to threads where comments like ' thats how it works, live with it' or similar, are trotted out....
im sorry if some dont like an objective post or two (especially on a cosy branded forum like this) but AS charge a shedload of cash for their product and, based in my readings here, they are not what i would expect of a 'quality' manufacturer ....
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Post by burlingtonboaby on Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:15 pm

No battery charging problems on my last three A/S vans, only duff batteries for what ever reason .
Happy to purchase another van albeit ,ten years old.
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Post by Liam on Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:40 pm

Boaby, 
Well said - I could not agree more with you - 4 years for me with no real problems!!
All this chap was seeking was some support and advice in a desperate situation and not a tirade of the good or bad of a particular motorhome manufacturer followed by a disjointed tech lecture! Its not helpful to anyone!
He is obviously new to the vehicle and therefore possible does not yet fully appreciate the finer points of successfully operating in wild camping conditions - brave chap this time of year.
Hopefully he has now been successfully recovered and perhaps slightly the wiser as to what does and does not run your batteries down - been in low temps but I have never used my heater blankets!
I agree that it is extremely difficult to absorb all that is said during a dealer handover (no matter how good or bad it is) and a quiet period of reflection with the hand book and testing for your self on your own home drive is well advised before heading out into the wilderness.
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Post by RML on Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:43 pm

Perhaps Peter you would like to substantiate that inflammatory comment, we're all waiting for your adjudication. 
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Post by -mojo- on Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:50 pm

There's no need to have an argument about it - we all have slightly different opinions.

One thing I do think A/S need to address is how they describe the tank heaters though. I've checked through the Owner's Manual for a couple of recent models (the Symbol being one of them) and nowhere does it explain how much power the tank heaters take and when you should and shouldn't use them. As far as I can see they are fused at 10A, but quite what they are supposed to take when operating normally I don't yet know.

So the advice that the tank heaters should only be used on EHU is just supposition - from what I've found so far, it's not based on anything that A/S tell you!
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Post by bolero boy on Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:02 pm

'tirade'....not quite sure what you mean...
i posted helpful constructive advice to the op....
get the AA to get you going, go to an ehu, plug in a fan heater to get warm, have a hot shower, get AS to check all systems are working, confirm to your satisfaction that this is so...
i also suggested that some AS systems are not 'fit and forget'...
surely, these 'heaters' should only be set to run when on ehu, eithe as 230v items or when the battery is being recharged via the mains...almost any heating device is going to kill batteries pretty quickly, especially when added to the load of running a truma heater fan.
this seems perfectly logical to me, otherwise folk (like the OP) will find himself in the position he was in....
yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing and (perhaps, as we all know) he shouldnt have turned on those heaters....
'perhaps' a message like 'only activated when on mains' might have been better...?
whilst some are totally happy with the electrical systems on some AS vans (and i did say in my 'tirade' that many are...) it cannot escape the attention of anyone that reads this forum that there are indeed many customer issues with some systems, especially around the battery charging (or not) area.
this observation has come from just reading the forum for the past few weeks....i have no other knowledge of AS products, merely that they seem to have a 'premium' aura yet there are many repetitive postings on their own forum around electricals and, in particular, poorly installed heating.
if AS multiple owners posting their issues is not an indication of common themes, i dont know what is....
i apologise if my views seem a little 'forthright' to some, but folk spend a lot of hard earned on motorhome and any manufacturer that doesnt cut the mustard these days needs reminding of who is the customer.
BTW, what 'inflammatory comment' are we talking about...?
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Post by Hoopman on Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:19 pm

The information in the A/S handbook for tank blankets for our 2015 Topaz was poor. There was a single loose page flyer on the fact they were fitted. This gets you to the company that makes them.

According to their website, their smallest blanket takes up to 4A and largest blanket takes up to 8.5A.

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They do suggest a 15A fuse is fitted and they suggest that to preserve hab battery,use EHU if available

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Post by AutoSleepy_Don on Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:26 pm

I am troubled by the fact that the Sargent EC480/500 allows the vehicle battery to get discharged. If every criticism in this thread were true, but the system prevented any discharge of the vehicle starter battery, then that would satisfy me (as has been the case in previous AS vans).
I will be writing to AS and Sargent for clarification.
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:29 pm

beaten to it.


Last edited by PLOUGHLIN on Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : beaten to it.)

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Post by Peter Brown on Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:36 pm

If stored as per the instructions with the Sargent unit switched off then the Sargent habitation system will not put any drain the vehicle battery, nor will it charge the vehicle battery.

It is the chassis ECU and any after market fittings such as a tracker and alarm that discharge the vehicle battery. These are items totally independent from the Sargent system.

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Post by Liam on Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:47 pm

Hoopman wrote:The information in the A/S handbook for tank blankets for our 2015 Topaz was poor. There was a single loose page flyer on the fact they were fitted. This gets you to the company that makes them.
I guess they were/are not written up in the AS owners manual is because were/are an additional piece of kit offered to the customer at the time of purchase. The flyer does refer the owner to the "Tank Blanket" web site where it does suggest they should preferably be used on EHU.
I note that the company also sells "Horst Miracle Probes" a US design which they claim overcomes all of the issues and inaccuracy  of current water level probes!
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Post by harrysp on Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:19 am

Librangoat wrote:ChrisP28 I’m in Castle Acre Norfolk. AADue soon
Gradually reading through posts for info to write down for AA and Marquis Ipswich
I hope you've sorted the issues,, got to an EHU and charged the batteries. Did you get to the bottom of the problem? If it turns out to be the tank blankets, don't worry we all had to start and made a few blunders along the way.  Vans weren't as sophisticated when we started. 

As for the blankets, we'very never used them, we just drain the tanks if it's too cold. 

Good luck sorting the issues. 

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Post by ChrisP28 on Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:44 am

Hi Librangoat
Glad to have been of some help, only sorry that I'm too far away to have been of any further service. Good luck.
I applaud all the posters here for all the help and advice that has been offered, It's a nice warm feeling when you know there's help out there.
I do agree with some of the posts that there should be more clarity in the handbooks but on the other hand how many of us actually read them before we have a problem? Guilty.  studying

My current employment brings me into contact with various power supply systems used in the marine navigation system business and solar and mains charging is a huge part of the work. One thing we know is that none of the charging systems work 100% out of the box. They all need setting up and none of them are the same. Unfortunately, and on this I speak from experience, the dealers / manufacturers seem to be severely lacking in this area. The Sargent system is a good one but it's only as good as the setup and calibration, get this right and it works a treat.
I would suggest that we all get the user manuals for all the equipment in our MOHO's and have a nice quiet read in the warm in front of the fire on these dark nights, so that we are ready for the summer and know what we can expect from, and the limitations of, our equipment.

My other tip would be to contact the equipment manufacturers and ask them about your problems first. They know their equipment an can quite often get you going without the wasted trip to the agent. The manufacturer will also be able to advise you if the problem should be covered under a warranty etc.

Happy camping
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Post by Peter Brown on Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:18 am

To CP - What a pleasure it was to start off the morning by reading such a sensible and constructive post - thank you.

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Post by Libraryman2 on Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:48 am

bolero boy wrote:'tirade'....not quite sure what you mean...
i posted helpful constructive advice to the op....
get the AA to get you going, go to an ehu, plug in a fan heater to get warm, have a hot shower, get AS to check all systems are working, confirm to your satisfaction that this is so...
i also suggested that some AS systems are not 'fit and forget'...
surely, these 'heaters' should only be set to run when on ehu, eithe as 230v items or when the battery is being recharged via the mains...almost any heating device is going to kill batteries pretty quickly, especially when added to the load of running a truma heater fan.
this seems perfectly logical to me, otherwise folk (like the OP) will find himself in the position he was in....
yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing and (perhaps, as we all know) he shouldnt have turned on those heaters....
'perhaps' a message like 'only activated when on mains' might have been better...?
whilst some are totally happy with the electrical systems on some AS vans (and i did say in my 'tirade' that many are...) it cannot escape the attention of anyone that reads this forum that there are indeed many customer issues with some systems, especially around the battery charging (or not) area.
this observation has come from just reading the forum for the past few weeks....i have no other knowledge of AS products, merely that they seem to have a 'premium' aura yet there are many repetitive postings on their own forum around electricals and, in particular, poorly installed heating.
if AS multiple owners posting their issues is not an indication of common themes, i dont know what is....
i apologise if my views seem a little 'forthright' to some, but folk spend a lot of hard earned on motorhome and any manufacturer that doesnt cut the mustard these days needs reminding of who is the customer.
BTW, what 'inflammatory comment' are we talking about...?


To be fair; when someone is having a bad day with batteries or otherwise, seeking help and trying to resolve a problem; the last thing they want to hear is that the model of motorhome they bought is not up to the task!

Give them a break, and save the criticism for a relevant post.

Ray
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Post by Jaytee on Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:58 am

Peter Brown wrote:To CP - What a pleasure it was to start off the morning by reading such a sensible and constructive post - thank you.
I'll second that Peter  up!

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Post by bolero boy on Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:01 am

Libraryman2 wrote:
bolero boy wrote:'tirade'....not quite sure what you mean...
i posted helpful constructive advice to the op....
get the AA to get you going, go to an ehu, plug in a fan heater to get warm, have a hot shower, get AS to check all systems are working, confirm to your satisfaction that this is so...
i also suggested that some AS systems are not 'fit and forget'...
surely, these 'heaters' should only be set to run when on ehu, eithe as 230v items or when the battery is being recharged via the mains...almost any heating device is going to kill batteries pretty quickly, especially when added to the load of running a truma heater fan.
this seems perfectly logical to me, otherwise folk (like the OP) will find himself in the position he was in....
yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing and (perhaps, as we all know) he shouldnt have turned on those heaters....
'perhaps' a message like 'only activated when on mains' might have been better...?
whilst some are totally happy with the electrical systems on some AS vans (and i did say in my 'tirade' that many are...) it cannot escape the attention of anyone that reads this forum that there are indeed many customer issues with some systems, especially around the battery charging (or not) area.
this observation has come from just reading the forum for the past few weeks....i have no other knowledge of AS products, merely that they seem to have a 'premium' aura yet there are many repetitive postings on their own forum around electricals and, in particular, poorly installed heating.
if AS multiple owners posting their issues is not an indication of common themes, i dont know what is....
i apologise if my views seem a little 'forthright' to some, but folk spend a lot of hard earned on motorhome and any manufacturer that doesnt cut the mustard these days needs reminding of who is the customer.
BTW, what 'inflammatory comment' are we talking about...?


To be fair; when someone is having a bad day with batteries or otherwise, seeking help and trying to resolve a problem;  the last thing they want to hear is that the model of motorhome they bought is not up to the task!

Give them a break, and save the criticism for a relevant post.

Ray
Ray thanks for 'being fair'....
if you read my above post, it was obvious i was replying to Liam who accused me of a 'tirade' and a 'lecture', neither were true IMHO.
My reply was not to further add to the angst of the OP, to whom i had already offered same/similar/sensible advice, to get to an EHU, get warm, get a back up heater, get the van checked by AS, confirm it was working correctly to his satisfaction....what else is there to say...
hopefully the experts at AS will quickly detect the problem and get the OP back on the road in a speedy manner.
like everyone else here, i wish him well.
none of the above precludes the fact that this sort of post is not an uncommon one and to have a van a few weeks old and have it die on you is blooming annoying.
again, lets hope the issues are swiftly identified, any things to watch out for are fully explained to the OP and hes back enjoying his van ASAP.

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Post by bolero boy on Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:02 am

Peter Brown wrote:If stored as per the instructions with the Sargent unit switched off then the Sargent habitation system will not put any drain  the vehicle battery, nor will it charge the vehicle battery.

It is the chassis ECU and any after market fittings such as a tracker and alarm that discharge the vehicle battery.  These are items totally independent from the Sargent system.
yes, this is no doubt true....but in the case of the OP, we are not talking about the van in storage but when in use, and as such his vehicle battery should be protected from discharging below the Sargent 'safety limit cut off' into the 'useless' zone.

i assumed (wrongly?) by looking at the manual (yes, i read it) that the systems would shut down at a prescribed level, so as to enable the vehicle to still be driven....though i agree this 'level' is probably too low to start a cold diesel engine....which may well be where his battery ended up.

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Post by Librangoat on Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:08 pm

I am wondering if there could be a separate thread set up when people are responding to each other and not to the person’ who made the original post?
My reasoning is that I am reading through a lot of posts from people who appear to be regular posters. It is taking extra time for me to read through posts to see if anything is relevant to me.
I really appreciated being given the info by a poster that it was better to start a new thread rather than piggy-back on another thread. :)

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Post by Librangoat on Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:11 pm

Above post sent with good wishes to all posters! :)
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Post by -mojo- on Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:34 pm

It's a fair comment! It seems a bit inconsistent to get asked not to "piggy-back" and to start your own thread - and then to have people piggy-back about general stuff rather than specific answers on your thread. But that's internet forums for you - and I confess I'm as guilty as anyone else of off-topic thread drift...

Anyway, good to see (from your other thread) that the cause was another fuse blown. It may be worth temporarily removing that fuse and seeing what the early symptoms are, so that you recognise it next time.

One other thing that you may want to do is to buy an LED fuse for that circuit. These fuses are still one-use-only (i.e. when blown you still throw them away) but they incorporate an LED that lights when they are blown and an attempt is made to use their circuit - sometimes referred to as "glow blow" fuses. An example here:

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Post by daisy mae on Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:36 pm

The heading should tell you whether it is of interest to you, if not don`t take the time to read, 
 
As the forum is, it  seems to work very well for members, or am I missing something.?

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Post by AutoSleepy_Don on Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:05 pm

Librangoat wrote:I really appreciated being given the info by a poster that it was better to start a new thread rather than piggy-back on another thread.  :)
I saw that comment and thought at the time it was quite bad and inappropriate thing to be saying to someone in your situation.  Don't let it affect your experience of this forum as it is friendly in the vast majority of instances.
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Post by bolero boy on Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:12 pm

ah, a blown fuse?....i would have thought the place to post this back would have been in this specific thread?
i now have to read the other threads for this update...
apologies to the OP for going off topic.

Mojo, which thread contained the 'fuse' update? cheers.
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:26 pm

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