NEC 2016 Burford and Duo.

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Post by yammy on Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:51 pm

Just spent a couple of days at NEC and was disappointed with the A/S updates for 2016. I love the range especially the Burford but I can't help thinking that when it comes to the flagship of the range the rear washroom is pretty basic and small and the salad bowl of a basin is the wrong shape and hideous. If you look at the direct competition ie Swift Bolero 724 our Auto Trail Dakota with end bathrooms, they are far superior, I wouldn't hesitate at choosing a burford but until A/S sort out their flagship, they will always lose sales to the competition. I spoke to a lot of people and they have similar feelings, please don't get me wrong, I love A/S, am I wrong expecting a bit more for a van costing nearly over £70000.appreciate your comments. Cheers Rob.
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Post by Wizbangs on Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:14 pm

I'm also looking at the Burford Duo on the Merc chassis but that huge overhang worries me. I'm not sure how the vehicle will ride. On another forum, folks are really trying to put me off it saying the overhang is an accident waiting to happen. 

A couple of things I noticed. Firstly, a total lack of storage space means adding a Fiamma Box on the back, that could also affect the ride. Secondly, when pulling the TV out, it seems like access to the bedroom, the fridge and kitchen is really awkward. 

Has anyone got a Buford Duo and can advise on the above?  

Thanks.
Mary
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Post by burlingtonboaby on Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:33 pm

Hi Mary
Welcome to the forum from Bridlington 
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:12 pm

Not sure what the actual overhang is on the Burford, but it looks huge. By law the maximum overhang for that chassis (4325 mm wheelbase) is 2595 mm (60%). Adding a storage box to the back may well take you over that maximum, as well as increasing the  rear axle load excessively, the user payload is not massive anyway.

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Post by Wizbangs on Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:30 pm

PLOUGHLIN wrote:Not sure what the actual overhang is on the Burford, but it looks huge. By law the maximum overhang for that chassis (4325 mm wheelbase) is 2595 mm (60%). Adding a storage box to the back may well take you over that maximum, as well as increasing the  rear axle load excessively, the user payload is not massive anyway.

Wow... I didn't know that. I've phoned AS and it's 59%, so a box on the back is out. Damn. It means dismantling hubby's disabled buggy and carrying it inside. Hmmmm. Problems, problems. The user payload is more than our Rapido though.
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:34 pm

Only 44 mm left for a tow bar. Not very sensible of AS to build that length, I think.

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Post by yammy on Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:32 pm

Wizbangs wrote:I'm also looking at the Burford Duo on the Merc chassis but that huge overhang worries me. I'm not sure how the vehicle will ride. On another forum, folks are really trying to put me off it saying the overhang is an accident waiting to happen. 

A couple of things I noticed. Firstly, a total lack of storage space means adding a Fiamma Box on the back, that could also affect the ride. Secondly, when pulling the TV out, it seems like access to the bedroom, the fridge and kitchen is really awkward. 

Has anyone got a Buford Duo and can advise on the above?  

Thanks.
Mary
Hi Mary

To be honest, if you are really keen on getting a Burford, as like i am, dont be put off with the overhang as alot of people drive motorhomes with big overhangs like the Swift Kontiki, Autotrail Commanche,  and alot of big A classes !! I went from a 4.25m van to a 7.04m van and with all the worries that go with up-sizing, but you do get used to it and you just have to be abit more careful when pulling out from a curb. If you are really worried then The Caravan Club run courses on teaching you to cope with driving your motorhome. For its size, even the littel Nuevo has a far old overhang. When i "upsized" people were telling me you wont cope with the size and overhang and now i want to go even bigger. Dont listen to the negatives, people are probably envious, talk to positive like minded people and in time, with being careful, you will wonder what all the fuss was about, good luck. cheers Rob.
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:27 pm

yammy wrote:Hi Mary

To be honest, if you are really keen on getting a Burford, as like i am, dont be put off with the overhang as alot of people drive motorhomes with big overhangs like the Swift Kontiki, Autotrail Commanche,  and alot of big A classes !! I went from a 4.25m van to a 7.04m van and with all the worries that go with up-sizing, but you do get used to it and you just have to be abit more careful when pulling out from a curb. If you are really worried then The Caravan Club run courses on teaching you to cope with driving your motorhome. For its size, even the littel Nuevo has a far old overhang. When i "upsized" people were telling me you wont cope with the size and overhang and now i want to go even bigger. Dont listen to the negatives, people are probably envious, talk to positive like minded people and in time, with being careful, you will wonder what all the fuss was about, good luck. cheers Rob.
 Who is envious, I drive a Gloucester (7.29 m)  with a fairly large overhang (46%), without any problems. Reversing a trailer with a large overhang is "interesting" as the trailer reacts so quickly and it is very easy to get jack knifed. That won't be a problem with the Burford though, as you can't legally fit a tow bar so no towing. No storage box or bike rack either.

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Post by yammy on Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:09 pm

Hi Peter ,
that might make things difficult for me getting  a Burford as I tow a smart behind me at the moment and if you say you cant tow behind a Burford then I will have to think again  scratch head
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:24 pm

The maximum overhang allowed by C & U regs is 60% of the wheelbase. Overhang measured from the centre line of rear axle to rearmost part of vehicle. Unless you can get a towbar which doesn't project more than 44 mm, I don't see how you can legally tow.
There are some exemptions in the C & U regs but I don't think a MH use vehicle is one of them.
The base chassis has a capacity of 2000kg for towing, so no problem there. I don't know if AS have amended the MB load plate to remove towing, though they still give GTM as 5880 kg in the handbook.

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Post by m8form8 on Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:47 pm

I looked at one of these, thinking If I went down that road I would need to tow a smart car or similar. If that's not possible its makes the van rather limited.  scratch head scratch head scratch head Watching with interest....
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:49 pm

Realy for a van that length you need a twin axle LWB, which reduces the effective overhang.

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Post by inspiredron on Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:10 am

I didn't know about the 60% rule. Proportionately the Nuevo must be fairly large on its SWB chassis - I must measure it. BUT it has a much smaller turning circle than my Prius and I have never had a problem with the overhang. I would certainly be nervous with the Duo on going through narrow gaps where you also have to turn - even on the Nuevo I worry that the back corner may swing wide, though it never does. But I guess that with an almost 60% overhsng the Duo might.
No possibilty of bike rack or towbar seems like A/S shooting themselves in the foot!

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Post by Wizbangs on Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:49 am

There is a company (Watling Towbars) that has Burfords on their list as doable... not sure what/how they keep it legal though. Perhaps they have it wrong.

"Burford & Burford Duo (LWB Sprinter) Requires long neck towball &shorten crossbar by 80mm 2012 - PMO3 450.00"
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:11 am

There are three possibilities.

1. I am wrong in my interpretation, it has been known. hugegrins
2. Watling are wrong in their interpretation, they want to sell tow bars, and won't be paying any fine.
3. AS could be wrong and the overhang is not 59%.

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Post by David.S on Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:38 pm

Hi All,
I have a Burford with a tow bar for towing my Smart. The overhang made me a little concerned until I drove it for our first trip (Southampton to Bude) when to my relief it is no problem whatsoever. True I am very careful in tight locations (fuel stations etc) but I have seen many vehicles with long overhangs driving trouble free. I have recently had hydraulic levellers fitted and they are brilliant. I am not comfortable crawling around on wet grass to do the job manually so am very happy. Most importantly when the unit is on site it is a most comfortable home so if anyone is in doubt (and has the necessary funds) get one and you won't be disappointed.
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Post by Wizbangs on Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:38 am

David.S wrote:Hi All,
I have a Burford with a tow bar for towing my Smart. The overhang made me a little concerned until I drove it for our first trip (Southampton to Bude) when to my relief it is no problem whatsoever. True I am very careful in tight locations (fuel stations etc) but I have seen many vehicles with long overhangs driving trouble free. I have recently had hydraulic levellers fitted and they are brilliant. I am not comfortable crawling around on wet grass to do the job manually so am very happy. Most importantly when the unit is on site it is a most comfortable home so if anyone is in doubt (and has the necessary funds) get one and you won't be disappointed.


Thank you so much for that. :) I'm not sure I'd risk the tow bar now though. I'm still waiting to hear if our Rapido has sold or not, then I can approach the reputable dealers that have been recommended to me.
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Post by groundhog on Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:46 am

Hi Wizbangs

Read your post on the other forum, am I right you are looking for something with singe beds and full size lounge?

If you are really worried about the overhang on the Burford could you manage with a Winchcombe, yes, you have to lift the rear cushions off to make the single beds but it takes seconds to do? You also have the benefit the lounge is a full size. Masses of weight and space available for storage too! 

David S obviously has a Burford so there is your answer on towing, adding spring (air) suspension is not that costly and hugely effective, I would certainly go down that route!

The question of a longer tail 'swinging' on corners wouldn't worry me either.

My only concern might be the limitation on ground clearance when using ramps but there are many vans out there with the same sort of overhang that seem to manage.

Good luck with whatever your decision, you will not be disappointed with the Mercedes I promise you that!

Do let us know which way you go!
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Post by Chrissie on Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:09 pm

As owners of a Burford Duo for 12 months now, we can honestly say that we have not experienced any problems with the long rear overhang and swinging round corners.  Yes, of course, it is a long vehicle and you have to take care.  We have just been to the show at the NEC and looked at many other models and the Burford fits the bill for us.  The large lounge, single beds and rear washroom work well (although I do agree that the 'salad bowl' washbasin is not ideal!!   

To get around the lack of storage space, we had a Luton top fitted to give us the extra space. Works well.

If you are considering this model then you will not be disappointed.  And built on a Mercedes Sprinter chassis, well you can't go wrong.  

Chris & Phil
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Post by yammy on Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:01 pm

Chrissie wrote:As owners of a Burford Duo for 12 months now, we can honestly say that we have not experienced any problems with the long rear overhang and swinging round corners.  Yes, of course, it is a long vehicle and you have to take care.  We have just been to the show at the NEC and looked at many other models and the Burford fits the bill for us.  The large lounge, single beds and rear washroom work well (although I do agree that the 'salad bowl' washbasin is not ideal!!   

To get around the lack of storage space, we had a Luton top fitted to give us the extra space. Works well.

If you are considering this model then you will not be disappointed.  And built on a Mercedes Sprinter chassis, well you can't go wrong.  

Chris & Phil
Hi Chris & Phil, i remember talking to you both on the AS stand last week, i hope it was you anyway, I think you had a German Shepherd, if I got it wrong then I apologise, we were talking about passenger seat adjustment amongst other things, anyway welcome to the forum, loads of useful info on here, I wish there were more Burford owners on here !!!  cheers
Robin.
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Post by Wizbangs on Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:14 pm

groundhog wrote:Hi Wizbangs

Read your post on the other forum, am I right you are looking for something with singe beds and full size lounge?



Yes, though we need them as separate rooms. As yet we've heard nothing re our Rapido being sold or not. I'm giving it until Wednesday to let them get a little bit recovered from the NEC. Meanwhile I'm preparing a wish list to send to various dealers. 

Thanks to everyone who has responded so positively on their Burfords. I will let everyone know the outcome.
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Post by Chrissie on Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:47 pm

David.S wrote:Hi All,
I have a Burford with a tow bar for towing my Smart. The overhang made me a little concerned until I drove it for our first trip (Southampton to Bude) when to my relief it is no problem whatsoever. True I am very careful in tight locations (fuel stations etc) but I have seen many vehicles with long overhangs driving trouble free. I have recently had hydraulic levellers fitted and they are brilliant. I am not comfortable crawling around on wet grass to do the job manually so am very happy. Most importantly when the unit is on site it is a most comfortable home so if anyone is in doubt (and has the necessary funds) get one and you won't be disappointed.
Hi David,  We were interested to read that you had hydraulic levellers fitted to your Burford.  This is something my husband and I were only talking about just last week!  Can you let us know where you obtained them and whether they were easy to fit, presumably by a dealer?  I'm guessing they are quite expensive but I know hubby is not too keen on crawling around on wet grass to do the job manually either so may be worth every penny.  We also love our Burford, it really is such a comfortable home from home!.  Thanks Chris & Phil
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Post by Chrissie on Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:51 pm

yammy wrote:
Chrissie wrote:As owners of a Burford Duo for 12 months now, we can honestly say that we have not experienced any problems with the long rear overhang and swinging round corners.  Yes, of course, it is a long vehicle and you have to take care.  We have just been to the show at the NEC and looked at many other models and the Burford fits the bill for us.  The large lounge, single beds and rear washroom work well (although I do agree that the 'salad bowl' washbasin is not ideal!!   

To get around the lack of storage space, we had a Luton top fitted to give us the extra space. Works well.

If you are considering this model then you will not be disappointed.  And built on a Mercedes Sprinter chassis, well you can't go wrong.  

Chris & Phil
Hi Chris & Phil, i remember talking to you both on the AS stand last week, i hope it was you anyway, I think you had a German Shepherd, if I got it wrong then I apologise, we were talking about passenger seat adjustment amongst other things, anyway welcome to the forum, loads of useful info on here, I wish there were more Burford owners on here !!!  cheers
Robin.
Hi Robin, Yes I do remember talking to you on the AS stand last week!  How strange that you should find us again!!  Just joined the Autosleeper Forum today and as you say there is so much info out there.   It's really great to chat to like-minded people with such a lot in common.  I hope you enjoyed the rest of your time at the NEC and have you persuaded AS to put another armrest on the Captain's Chair and change the 'Salad Washbowl'!!  Rgds Chris & Phil
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Post by yammy on Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:21 pm

Hi Chris and Phil, I spent 2 days up there and it was really exiting looking round the various vans, I found that although AS dont do twin armrests in their sprinters, I did find that on the Hymer stand a couple of their mercs did have twin armrests but they were added by a company called Guchi or something like that, so you can have it done in the merc sprinter cab, and if I ordered a burford the first thing I would get rid of would be the salad bowl washbasin, although on the rapido thand they did had the same salad bowl but in an oval shape which is slightly better . Cheers Robin.
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Post by David.S on Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:30 am

Hi Chrissie,

 I had the levelers (and air assist suspension) fitted by Glide Rite in Liphook but there are other fitting sites.The fitting
takes a couple of days and the install for both systems was very neat. The prices are on the website. They are very helpful and knowledgeable. I also use the lifters at home for extra security, nobody can steal a motorhome when the wheels don't touch the ground.

cheers David.
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