Tyres....a saving too far ?

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Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by ian on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:49 am

I've just splashed out on two  MICHELIN AGILIS 195/70R15C for the two front wheels.

Cost was £190 fitted and that included some swopping of tyres to put on a better spare.

The problem I had is that all of the tyres already on the vehicle with the exception of the spare looked almost new.

It was only when I checked the dates that I became aware that they were 2005.

I have only recently acquired this vehicle and the previous owner (87yrs old) gave me all his old documentation.

The MOT's show that the vehicle has only done a few thousand miles since the tyres were put on.

My tyre fitter checked the tyres and said they had absolutely no issues apart from age.

He said if it was his vehicle he would only change the front for now and consider changing the rear same time next year.

I have read on many sites that you should change your tyres every five years otherwise you could have problems with your insurance.
My insurance simply says the vehicle must be maintained in good order and in accordance with statutory provision.

Does everyone change their tyres at 5 years?

Ian
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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by boxerman on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:44 pm

I change mine when they wear out, which usually means changing the front ones as the back one don't seem to wear much.
When the back ones are getting ready for changing, I put the front ones on the back and have new ones on the front (again).
I know that many people only use their vans for highdays and holidays but mine is our only vehicle so I do wear tyres out.

As for insurance saying that you must change the tyres at 5 years OR as I have heard elsewhere, that you can only replace your tyres with the same as fitted originally:
I think that a lot of "experts" of forums read their own meanings into things and then insist that theirs is the only true interpretation of "the rules". My insurance, like yours, just says that the vehicle must be maintained in a roadworthy condition.

Frank
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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by oakchipper on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:50 pm

Hi
We recently purchased our Autosleeper Medallion with 4 good tyres but there was a note from last years mot tester that the tyres were 6 years old,we decided to change all 4 and leave the spare.
There is a shortage of some of the sizes in UK for the motorhome spec Michelin,{check you are getting the correct one,they do say camper on them and with Michelin they are 112Q suffix.],my independant guy got mine from Holland,5 weeks wait from UK large tyre companies.
I also found them available on ebay in Germany with free delivery at a reasonable price,7 days delivery

Pete
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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by hillwalker on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:52 pm

Hi Ian

I would only change my tyres, regardless of age, if I was advised to on an MOT check.
My MOT is due in February of each year so any lumps or deterioration after non use in winter should be found.

My van is not used over much in winter but I do move its position on the drive at least once a month to alleviate tyre stress.

"H"

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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by -mojo- on Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:33 pm

I've never seen any evidence of insurance companies stipulating a maximum age for tyres - and I can't help thinking that there's an element of propaganda from vested interests...

However, we have never (to the best of my recollection) replaced tyres on any of our vans because they had worn out - we simply don't do enough miles per year. We always used to change the tyres when they were 6 or 7 years old, typically when half worn.

This was partly because of UV degradation of the sidewalls, though the consensus seems to be that this is generally only cosmetic. But the main reason was that, having no ABS, we felt that we needed all the water-clearing capability we could get in the wet. Running into the back of ABS-equipped cars under emergency braking in heavy rain was always my biggest concern - though I suspect that good tread depth also helps with traction on muddy ground.
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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by mikethebike on Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:37 pm

ian wrote:I've just splashed out on two  MICHELIN AGILIS 195/70R15C for the two front wheels.

Cost was £190 fitted and that included some swopping of tyres to put on a better spare.

The problem I had is that all of the tyres already on the vehicle with the exception of the spare looked almost new.

It was only when I checked the dates that I became aware that they were 2005.

I have only recently acquired this vehicle and the previous owner (87yrs old) gave me all his old documentation.

The MOT's show that the vehicle has only done a few thousand miles since the tyres were put on.

My tyre fitter checked the tyres and said they had absolutely no issues apart from age.

He said if it was his vehicle he would only change the front for now and consider changing the rear same time next year.

I have read on many sites that you should change your tyres every five years otherwise you could have problems with your insurance.
My insurance simply says the vehicle must be maintained in good order and in accordance with statutory provision.

Does everyone change their tyres at 5 years?

Ian
Hi Short answer .No. However i do check my tyres frequently for damage and age cracking.As these are the same as yours, the best Michelin, they are very well made . Cut price tyres at half price may be better changed early.
I have just hit a kerb at speed and cut the tyre badly on the sidewall. The tyre stayed up and it got me to a tyre depot without a problem,it was 10 years old.
Best to have same make on each axle.
regards

mike
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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by Paulmold on Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:56 pm

Extract from Uniroyal (Continental) website



Tyre age

A problem that’s often overlooked with tyres is their age. If you drive less than the UK average of 8,000 miles a year, your tyres may well become unsafe through ageing before they ever wear out. Tyres left on the rear are more likely to encounter this problem. Doing just 5,000 miles per year it could take up to ten years to wear the rear tyres out, yet they could become unsafe after only five or six years through ageing.


Continental is unaware of any technical data that supports a specific tyre age for removal from service. However, as with other members of the tyre and automotive industries, Continental recommends that all tyres (including spare tyres) that were manufactured more than ten (10) years previous be replaced with new tyres, even when tyres appear to be usable from their external appearance and if the tread depth may have not reached the minimum wear out depth.


Vehicle manufacturers may recommend a different chronological age at which a tyre should be replaced based on their understanding of the specific vehicle application; Continental recommends that any such instruction be followed.


Consumers should note that most tyres would have to be removed for tread wearout or other causes before tyre age is a problem. Any statement on removal period in no way reduces the consumer’s responsibility to replace tyres as needed.


The chronological age of the tyres

The chronological age of any tyre can be found on the tyre sidewall by examining the characters following the symbol "DOT".


For tyres manufactured after the year 1999, the last four numbers identify the date of manufacture of the tyre to the nearest week. The first two of these four numbers identify the week of manufacture (which range from "01" to "52"). The last two numbers identify the year of manufacture (e.g., a tyre with the information "DOT XXXXXX2703” was manufactured in the 27th week of 2003).


For tyres manufactured prior to the year 2000, three numbers instead of four indicate the date of manufacture.


Also, during the early 1990’s, Continental added a triangle (◄) to the end of the character string to distinguish a tyre built in the 1990’s from previous decades.


(e.g., a tyre with the information "DOT XXXXXX274◄” was manufactured in the 27th week of 1994).


If in doubt, please consult your local tyre dealer.
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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by oakchipper on Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:40 pm

In all of this I feel we should take into account  that our vehicles are constantly in a loaded state,somewhere near the fully laden capacity,also the coachbuilts place extra strain on the tyres because of sway etc,,we decided better safe than sorry.


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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by mikethebike on Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:27 pm

Hi Pete, The tyres are truck tyres with greater strength and load rating to cover the fact that they are loaded vehicles.
My tyres are rated 900 kgs each.

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mike
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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by Blossom on Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:47 pm

Whilst on the subject of tyres, I was surprised to see a wall chart in one of my local tyre stockists in which the advice is now given to put your best tyres on the rear. Several reasons were given for this apparent change of policy, but sadly I can,t remember what they were. Anyone else come across this. confused3 confused3 

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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by rogerblack on Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:37 pm

Blossom wrote:Whilst on the subject of tyres, I was surprised to see a wall chart in one of my local tyre stockists in which the advice is now given to put your best tyres on the rear. Several reasons were given for this apparent change of policy, but sadly I can,t remember what they were. Anyone else come across this.  confused3 confused3 

Was this advice for vehicles with rear wheel drive, front wheel drive or either/both?
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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by Blossom on Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:24 pm

Hi

It was for both.


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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by rogerblack on Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:50 pm

Blossom wrote:Hi

It was for both.


Interesting!
I have to take the car in tomorrow to get the winter tyres swapped for summer (hopefully no more snow!!) so will see what they say on this.
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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by Blossom on Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:02 pm

Excellent. Keep us posted please. wave 

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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by mikethebike on Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:26 pm

Hi, I have done some research elsewere and fitting new tyres to the rear comes up most.
However no one can be sure and your older tyres may be fairly new anyway.
The best for maximum safety is new tyres all round.
I suspect the difference is small for the average driver.
I always was of the opinion i could deal with a rear blowout better over a front.
i used to be indecisive but i am not so sure .
Its like the other things in life ,decisions decisions.
The main requirement is similar tyres on the same axle.
Tyre pressures are another.
Its risk assessment time.
regards

mike
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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by Peter Brown on Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:36 am

There is never any specific requirement in insurance terms but there is an obligation to keep the vehicle roadworthy and to operate/maintain it in accordance with manufacturers recommendations/instructions.

The tyre industry recommend replacing tyres at 5/6 years but no longer than 7 on the basis that they age and are then at risk of catastrophic failure. I've met several people who have suffered such a failure so it happens. A very good friend of mine suffered a blow out and 360 deg spin on the M1 at rush hour and considered he and his wife were very lucky to survive the incident. Following that he did a great deal of research into puncture prevention (sealants/tyron/etc.) and reached the conclusion that it future he would change tyres every 5 years - as will I.

About 15 years ago the motor industry recommended that newer tyres should go on the front after years of recommending that they should go on the back. There was a reason given but I can't recall it at the moment. About 10 years ago they did an about turn having found that drivers were better at handling understeer (vehicle goes straight on and doesn't respond to steering)than oversteer (vehicle back drifts out and spins). Personally I've always preferred the best tyres on the back.

Peter
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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by mikebro on Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:16 pm

I've just put four new Kumho 857s on the Symbol. The back two that were on when I acquired the van were Pirellis made in 1999!! And the front two had no discernable date on them, so I changed them to be on the safe side. Because on a front wheel drive vehicle the front tyres wear much quicker than the back ones, my thoughts were to change front to back say each year, to even out the wear. That way all four tyres will likely wear at the same rate and I will get maximum use out of them before they get too old.
smile! 
Rgds

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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by Peter Brown on Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:30 pm

Rotating tyres used to be a standard maintenance task 40 years ago. These days few bother. If you do it and drive a lot over 50mph it would be a good idea to have the wheels re-balanced at change over time. Also make sure any requirement for a specific direction of rotation is maintained.

Peter

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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by mikebro on Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:49 pm

Perhaps I've missed something but why rebalance? Wheels are balanced off the vehicle, so the balance shouldn't change just because the wheels are being changed front to back??

Rgds

confused3 

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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by Peter Brown on Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:06 pm

The balance changes as the tyre wears in sympathy with the corner specific suspension geometry. Swapping worn tyres can introduce undesirable vibration


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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by mikebro on Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:32 pm

I see what you're saying. I'll get the wheels put back on the balancing machine at changeover. It will be interesting to see whether this effect is significant.

Rgds

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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by mikethebike on Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:23 am

Yes you can do all this. Balance on the back wheels would be a waste of money to my mind. However changing wheel around mean they have to bed in to a new corner. This increases wear and you would have consider a slight loss in grip. .
this all depends how the front tyres have worn.Most wear on one edge before the other,ie not flat wear as the rears.
tyre pressures are the most important aspect of tyre wear that you can control.
I would just change two on the same axle at a time. Those with unlimited money can change tyres as and when they want.You pays your money and takes your choices.I have Mitchelin,expensive but considered the best.I am not recommending Pirelli at the moment!!

regards

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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by daisy mae on Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:14 pm

Just been to a tyre place, he doesn`t rate Michelin I`m afraid says you are paying for the name, and they are no better, others are considered better on the scale from the guys who do the ratings, , I will have two new tyres before the winter, I will have them put on the front and the front ones moved to the rear, I am now trying to find the best ones for me, budget ones are out, tyres are the only contact with the road and I want the best for that. so still researching.It is my only vehicle so not penny pinching, everyone likes things as cheap as possible, not when it is not cost effective in the long run. jmho
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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by mikebro on Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:53 pm

Update - I had the front to back wheel swap earlier this year. Wheels were re-checked for balance and were perfect. No uneven wear at all. Fronts had worn twice as much as back which I expected and is why I wanted them swapped over. We have done 1500 miles since with van running fine with absolutely no vibrations or degradation in roadholding or traction.

Daisy Mae - regarding make/model of tyres, our 2001 Symbol runs on Kumho 857 van tyres. These are the heavy duty "C" rated tyres that although not specifically for motorhomes are in practice absolutely fine. They have a max pressure of 65psi. There has been a lot of words written about tyre pressures on our AS's but I run ours at 55psi and get good (and very even) wear and good traction and road holding at this pressure. I got the Kumhos from mytyres.co.uk for £61.20 each including VAT, delivered to my local garage who fitted them for me. I just checked this morning and they are now £62.50. A lot cheaper than special motorhome tyres.

I'm sure you will get lots of different opinions - I can only give you my experience!!

Mikebro  smile!
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Re: Tyres....a saving too far ?

Post by daisy mae on Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:08 pm

Many thanks Mikebro, I run my fronts on 65psi which is on the door post, had no problems up to now, it is a mine field these days re tyres,

The ones that are on, I  forget the make have the C and the design of a commercial vehicle on the tyre itself. I have had no problems with them, only had the MH since last October
 and we didn`t get the snow last winter, so don`t know how they would have fared.
Regards
Margaret
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