Fresh water fill on Worcester

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Fresh water fill on Worcester Empty Fresh water fill on Worcester

Post by hblewett on Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:56 am

Still awaiting arrival of our 'new to us' Worcester, but I have a query about the fresh water filling arrangements. I like to be able to top up using a watering can; something I have read gave me the idea that this may be difficult without some sort of adapter - something was mentioned referring to using a submersible pump with some Autosleepers - not sure I understand. an anyone enlighten me please, then that will be one less thing for me to wonder about confused3 Thanks
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Fresh water fill on Worcester Empty Re: Fresh water fill on Worcester

Post by Peter Brown on Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:18 am

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I suggest you read the above threads in detail.

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Post by Backtrax on Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:00 am

Hblewett,
In summary
You need to have a hose with the connection adaptor and a submersible pump on a short pipe with the same connection adaptor.
Both should come with the van.
The hose is used if a tap is within reach. The pump, if you have to fill via a bucket - also if you want to add sterilizer tabs or cleaning agents, both via a bucket.
There are 2 different systems fitted to AS motorhomes dependant upon age.
Truma and Whale.
Both behave essentially the same, although whilst a complete tank fill (75 Ltr) takes approx 10 mins via a hose with the Truma system, it is reported to take much longer with the Whale system.

Thats really all there is to it.
Read and follow the appropraite section of your motorhome manual and you should be ok.
Plenty peeps here will help if you have a problem.
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Post by Robbie on Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:14 am

The external whale pump looks like this

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Pump just sits down in your water vessel and the top part just hooks into the side of the van the way your hose does normally


If its a truma this may be the one

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Fresh water fill on Worcester Empty Thanks

Post by hblewett on Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:19 am

Many thanks Peter & Backtrax. Obviously this is a topical subject at the moment! I have read the other two threads, and once past the various negative/critical posts, there is lots of good information, all of which is nicely summed up by Backtrax. I had become a bit concerned due to negative comments I had read elsewhere, but now I am well prepared 1- to make sure I get a proper briefing on handover 2- to make sure I get both the correct hose with the pressure reducer, and the submersible pump, and 3 - that I understand the system (which I think I probably do already!) and fully operate if myself nefore setting off on our next long trip. allthumbz

And thanks to Robbie, who posted while I was doing my homework on the other long threads up!
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Post by Peter Brown on Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:29 am

Its probably been mentioned elsewhere, but neither of the pumps will fit into the top of a standard water container therefore to ensure dedication of use I have a 'fresh water' watering can that will take the pumps or can be used for gravity fill. I obtained my current 10L watering can from a camping shop in Germany and it is designed with a swan neck and top and spout caps for the purpose.

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Post by JanGlover on Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:08 pm

Filling up isn't a problem once you are used to it. We use both the flat hose where we can and the whale submersible pump with a water container which if we are a distance from a tap, we transport on a folding trolley. The system means that you don't have to lift when filling the tank. It takes some getting used to if you are used to a watering can but has advantages if you have back problems!
The connection between the submersible whale pump and the tank dribbles a bit. allthumbz
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Post by JanGlover on Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:16 pm

Our submersible pump looks like the top photo of the two broomstick
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Post by DuxDeluxe on Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:19 pm

We have the Truma system on the Broadway and although not happy about it at first, we now like it. Fill via hose and connector when a tap within reach and then if needed top up via the submersible pump and a fiamma 23 litre wheeled tank. Works for us.

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Post by Robbie on Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:23 pm

Although we have an extra container and pump came with the van we never have found the need to use it. The water tank does a couple of days easily on a site where we dont worry about saving water. When we need a fill up I normally just move the van to the nearest tap and leave the missus with a couple of chairs out at our pitch. That we we get the tank filled to the neck again and also the toilet water tank.
The external pump is handy though for adding cleaning tabs to the fresh water tank at home :)

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Post by padraigpost on Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:11 pm

I have the Truma type fitted to my Suffolk and as Peter stated the pump will not fit into many water containers but I have found that Go Outdoors stores sell ones that the pump will fit in, it is a close fit but it will go and that is what I use, it is a 10 litre one and it much more convenient than an aquaroll.
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Fresh water fill on Worcester Empty Whale

Post by shelldrake on Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:40 pm

haven't heard about the whale etc How does it work? I assume there is a battery in the submersable pump.

As I am not always close to a tap etc I use a flat 15 l plastic container that expands (obviously) when filling and collapses when pouring Handy to store too.
I fitted a piece of plastic hose the same as they use in M/H to drain the sink and put that into the hole.
Isnt it about time that makers simplified the system tho. After all we all need to fill the HUGE taks that they fit!!!
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Post by hblewett on Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:35 pm

shelldrake wrote:haven't heard about the whale etc How does it work? I assume there is a battery in the submersable pump.

As I am not always close to a tap etc I use a flat 15 l plastic container that expands (obviously) when filling and collapses when pouring Handy to store too.
I fitted a piece of plastic hose the same as they use in M/H to drain the sink and put that into the hole.
Isnt it about time that makers simplified the system tho. After all we all need to fill the HUGE taks that they fit!!!

Thanks sheldrake. Is this the container you use?

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Is the opening big enough for the pump?

Due to collect the Worcester on Thursday up!
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Fresh water fill on Worcester Empty container

Post by shelldrake on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:00 pm

No mine has a larger hole at the top and in a UNICAN but I haven't ever seen any around. I've just bought one of these, arrived today, for inboard water as we never use the fresh water tank for drinking only washing up etc.
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Post by Robbie on Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:27 am

shelldrake wrote:haven't heard about the whale etc How does it work? I assume there is a battery in the submersable pump.


The whale pump has 2 wires that run up one of the tubes and onto the connection plug. The socket in the Van has a couple of contacts on it and when the pump is hooked up it gets its power to drive the pump from the van.

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Fresh water fill on Worcester Empty Whale pump

Post by shelldrake on Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:51 am

Umm No good to me as I dont have an external connection. scratch head shrugg Back to the water containers but I can cope with that allthumbz
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Post by hblewett on Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:32 pm

Well, the Worcester has arrived, and I must say it all looks a lot simpler than some folk make it sound. The handover from the dealer was good, and, pre-armed with the info I had gained from the forum, I think the explanation all went straight in!!

I wasn't supplied with the external filling pump (they said they don't come with it - well it didn't with this one, - it is second-hand after all), but I managd to get one from a shop in town this morning - much to my (pleasant) surprise. So this afternoon I have had a go and yes- filling is perfectly straightforward. I then decided to check out the internal water operations, and was surprised that the internal pump kept running. After a while I loooked outside to see water discharging itself all over the drive confused3 I guessed it must be the auto dump valve, so switched off the pump and consulted the book of words - yes, it was - so I now know that that works and where to find it up! [We have had some unseemly cold nights in the last few days!]

There are still a couple of things which I don't follow: the external pump works whether the internal panel is set on 'internal', 'external' or 'both' - surely that shouldn't be; and the 'tank fill' setting seems to make no difference whether it is on or off, except that it switches the internal pump on if it is off at the time. Anyway, having bled the system following the 'dumping' on some previous night, all is working well, and I see no problems; I'lljust have to decide on what I'm going to use as the water container to pump from then it's all systems go.

Next lesson will be the telly - we didn't have one before, which was fine, i twill be interesting to see how much we watch it now we have one?!
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Post by Peter Brown on Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:44 am

Information earlier in the thread implies you actually have the Whale system fitted. The Whale system pump operation is controlled by a combination of the pressure detector at the fill point and the tank float switch. The Sargent control panel has the switch for the internal pump but the external pump output and hence the controls for it are not used.

All of the Sargent facilities are used by the Truma system.

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Post by hblewett on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:21 am

Thanks Peter. That is correct, it is the Whale system, so that explains all. allthumbz
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Post by inspiredron on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:38 am

Peter Brown wrote:Information earlier in the thread implies you actually have the Whale system fitted. The Whale system pump operation is controlled by a combination of the pressure detector at the fill point and the tank float switch. The Sargent control panel has the switch for the internal pump but the external pump output and hence the controls for it are not used.

All of the Sargent facilities are used by the Truma system.

Peter

On my 2012 build Lancashire the EC328 has what the OP describes -a switch in the menu for internal pump, external pump or both. If the menu setting is internal then my external Whale is not powered.

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Post by Peter Brown on Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:29 am

inspiredron wrote:On my 2012 build Lancashire the EC328 has what the OP describes -a switch in the menu for internal pump, external pump or both. If the menu setting is internal then my external Whale is not powered.

Unless your van is a 'special' the Lancashire has the Truma system and is switched by the Sargent control unit.

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Post by JanGlover on Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:06 pm

hblewett wrote:I wasn't supplied with the external filling pump (they said they don't come with it - well it didn't with this one, - it is second-hand after all), but I managd to get one from a shop in town this morning - much to my (pleasant) surprise. So this afternoon I have had a go and yes- filling is perfectly straightforward. I then decided to check out the internal water operations, and was surprised that the internal pump kept running. After a while I loooked outside to see water discharging itself all over the drive confused3 I guessed it must be the auto dump valve, so switched off the pump and consulted the book of words - yes, it was - so I now know that that works and where to find it up! [We have had some unseemly cold nights in the last few days!]

Sounds just as we would expect on our Worcester. We carry two whale pumps (if the one in use fails and no tap is nearby, it's home time and we don't want to go home until we want to) and a roll-flat hose with the appropriate whale fitting on the end. We use a 5 gallon container when we can't get close enough to a suitable tap and have a folding sack trolley if we're feeling feeble (or the carry is long!).

When we're filled and ready to go we have the water heater on. This will stop the dump valve opening even in -8 degrees (we know this 'cos we've been there!). hugegrins broomstick drinksallround
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Post by inspiredron on Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:07 pm

Peter Brown wrote:
inspiredron wrote:On my 2012 build Lancashire the EC328 has what the OP describes -a switch in the menu for internal pump, external pump or both. If the menu setting is internal then my external Whale is not powered.

Unless your van is a 'special' the Lancashire has the Truma system and is switched by the Sargent control unit.

Peter

Sorry Peter - My van is special in the sense that it was built in 2012 with a 2011 body with the Euro 5 engined chassis but as far as I know ALL 2012 vans were fitted with WHALE inlets (it says WHALE on all the bits) - and I think that late 2011 was the same because the one that we saw at the NEC in 2011 (which was 2011 body Euro 4 had a WHALE inlet. But it is switched by the Sargent as stated above. And the Sargent has to be powered up water to go into the tank either from the hose or the external pump.


Last edited by inspiredron on Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added information)

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Post by Peter Brown on Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:25 pm

Hi Ron

Apologies, the van is on your drive not mine.

I've played with a few Whale systems and they weren't wired via the Sargent pump switch and the handbook for the Lancashire says its a Truma system.

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Post by inspiredron on Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:19 am

No problem, Peter. Sadly the van is still at Newbury having warranty work done so my post was from memory. But, as far as needing the Sargent switched on, I know that to my cost. For my first fill (in Luxembourg!) I hogged the tap for half an hour wondering why water would not flow until I realised that the Sargent needed to be on. I cannot be sure about the water tap switch position though.
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