Toilets, gas & electricity?

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Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by sharloid on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:39 pm

We have just bought our first van and hope to set off for Europe in September time. We know nothing about motorhomes and are trying to find out everything we need to know about our van.

I have a lot of questions that I hope you can all help with.

What chemicals do we need for the toilet? Where do we put what? I've read a few threads and some people suggest doing away with the blue liquid and using bio liquid instead. What about the pink? Any instructions on how to use it/empty it?

What about gas? Do we keep buying replacement bottles when it runs out or can you just buy a bottle and refill it? Is this easy enough to do throughout Europe? Do we need any kind of adapter?


What do you all do for electricity? We have a mains hook up but are planning to wild camp most of the time. I'd like something to charge a net book, kettle and hair straightners if possible. Would it be worth getting a leisure battery fitted (how much?) or would something like the 'Ring Automotive RPP210 12V 40ah Power Pack Complete with 300W Inverter' on Amazon work? Would you literally just plug it into the cigarette lighter and then plug the net book charger into it? The OH is also thinking of carrying a small solar charger on board for charging small items up.



Thanks :)
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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by Dutto on Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:22 pm

Hi there,

We use:

o Biological laundry tablets (two) for the main loo cassette.
o Biological liquid detergent (half a cap full per fill) for the flush tank.
o Either concentrated orange juice (Tesco 28p a bottle) or a single bio laundry tablet for the waste water.
o Milton tablets (two every third fill-up) for the potable water.
o A Calor Gas bottle for the UK and a Camping Gaz bottle for the Continent. (NEVER replace the CG one in the UK!)
o The CG needs a screw-in valve that has the same outlet as the normal UK Butane connection.
o When we have EHU we use a heavy duty 20m long cable with UK "blue" connections.
o We have every known "pigtail" to change the inlet connection on the cable.
o My advice is to forget 240V appliances (kettles, hair dryers etc) when wild camping.
o We get by with a 110 watt inverter to charge Kindle, Computer, iPad etc.
o I am amazed that there isn't a leisure battery already fitted. I recommend that you fit one as a priority.

In answer to "Where does everything go?" the answer is "Heavy stuff low down and lighter stuff up high."

TIPS:
1. Be ruthless with EVERYTHING.
2. With the exception of First Aid Kit and other Safety Items if it hasn't been used in the last month you don't need it so chuck it out.
3. Keep consumables to a minimum; even the most remote countries tend to have shops within driving distance.
4. Clothes are "one on - one in the drawer - one in the wash" so three pairs of socks, underpants, shirts etc will do.
5. Shoes are "one pair inside - one pair outside - one specialist pair" (in my case cycling clips in my wife's case dressed up shoes.)
6. Go for a number of trial runs and decide exactly what you need.
7. Before you set off for Europe go and get the outfit weighed so that you know EXACTLY what extra stuff you can bring onboard.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
drinksallround

PS Even more surprised that there is no leisure battery with a Duetto! The place it is normally fitted is under the bonnet on the near-side.


Last edited by Dutto on Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add PS)

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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by sharloid on Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:39 pm

Dutto wrote:Hi there,

We use:

o Biological laundry tablets (two) for the main loo cassette.
o Biological liquid detergent (half a cap full per fill) for the flush tank.
o Either concentrated orange juice (Tesco 28p a bottle) or a single bio laundry tablet for the waste water.
o Milton tablets (two every third fill-up) for the potable water.
o A Calor Gas bottle for the UK and a Camping Gaz bottle for the Continent. (NEVER replace the CG one in the UK!)
o The CG needs a screw-in valve that has the same outlet as the normal UK Butane connection.
o When we have EHU we use a heavy duty 20m long cable with UK "blue" connections.
o We have every known "pigtail" to change the inlet connection on the cable.
o My advice is to forget 240V appliances (kettles, hair dryers etc) when wild camping.
o We get by with a 110 watt inverter to charge Kindle, Computer, iPad etc.
o I am amazed that there isn't a leisure battery already fitted. I recommend that you fit one as a priority.

In answer to "Where does everything go?" the answer is "Heavy stuff low down and lighter stuff up high."

TIPS:
1. Be ruthless with EVERYTHING.
2. With the exception of First Aid Kit and other Safety Items if it hasn't been used in the last month you don't need it so chuck it out.
3. Keep consumables to a minimum; even the most remote countries tend to have shops within driving distance.
4. Clothes are "one on - one in the drawer - one in the wash" so three pairs of socks, underpants, shirts etc will do.
5. Shoes are "one pair inside - one pair outside - one specialist pair" (in my case cycling clips in my wife's case dressed up shoes.)
6. Go for a number of trial runs and decide exactly what you need.
7. Before you set off for Europe go and get the outfit weighed so that you know EXACTLY what extra stuff you can bring onboard.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
drinksallround

PS Even more surprised that there is no leisure battery with a Duetto! The place it is normally fitted is under the bonnet on the near-side.


Thank you :)

I never knew a toilet could be so complicated confused3 ... the bushes are looking quite appealing! I guess when we get our hands on the van we'll be able to try and figure out what goes where easier.

We aren't sure if it has a leisure battery or not. The man didn't say so and we forgot to ask so we thought it best presume it doesn't!
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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by Dutto on Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:53 pm

sharloid wrote:

........

We aren't sure if it has a leisure battery or not. The man didn't say so and we forgot to ask so we thought it best presume it doesn't!

WRONG ATTITUDE!!! tap_fingers tap_fingers

The right way is to check that there is a leisure battery when you take delivery and complain long and bitterly if there isn't; whilst demanding a huge refund or the installation of a brand new leisure battery!! allthumbz

I'm pretty sure that one will be fitted so relax! wave

Best regards,
drinksallround
Ian

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Gas ETC

Post by murph on Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:22 pm

Hi there,
Dutto has covered most of the basics but something I always advocate is a refillable gas cylinder which is filled with autogas from a petrol station Calor gas is not available in Europe, but autogas is, this is the same gas that is put into propane cylinders by Calor but is less than half the cost look at Websites for Gaslow and Gas it modern cylinders include a filler and contents gauge. Once the cylinder is in your gas locker you do not have to remove it unless you change your van, when the cylinder goes into the new vehicle. If you feel you need a spare a camping gas cylinder will do.
You can be set up with one 6kg cylinder for under £150, and you will save that in 1to2 years depending on usage A refill will cost you £6 to £8. Rather than £20 for calor.

Brian2


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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by Dutto on Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:22 am

murph wrote:......... A refill will cost you £6 to £8. Rather than £20 for calor.


Hi there,

Brian is right on savings but the price of Camping Gaz in rip-off Britain is extortionate!

A CG 607 (their biggest cylinder) costs £25 in the UK, €25 (£20 at today's rate) in France and in Spain €15.50 (£12.50).

I guess it will boil down to how much gas you use as to whether or not you will recover the cost of conversion.

We seldom eat out, do most of the cooking on the hob (I pride myself on my "one-pot" cooking!) but use the oven about once a week.

When we are on EHU a 4.5kg butane cylinder lasts us about six weeks. Wild camping, with a few hours of heating and fridge on gas most of the time, we reckon on three to four weeks per cylinder depending on the weather.

We use the Calor/Camping Gaz system because it is convenient, we travel to the continent on a regular basis and can get CG almost everywhere and we can guarantee that we will never run out of gas.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
drinksallround

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Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by bumperman on Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:07 am

Biological laundry tablets (two) for the main loo cassette.
o Biological liquid detergent (half a cap full per fill) for the flush tank.
o Either concentrated orange juice (Tesco 28p a bottle) or a single bio laundry tablet for the waste water.
o Milton tablets (two every third fill-up) for the potable water.


Excellent post Dutto, but what is a "flush tank", I don't have one on our Duetto, I'm pretty sure flush water is supplied from the main (potable) tank via the electric pump, but of course I could be wrong...................?

We keep a separate supply of clean water in a 4 gallon water carrier in the bathroom for drinking etc.

regards
bumperman
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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by sharloid on Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:45 pm

Thanks for the replies :).

We picked the van up yesterday and it does have a leisure battery! Thought I've got no idea what it can be used for. Does it 3 way fridge run off this when we're moving, or does that run off the main battery? :S

Also, regarding gas, can we not just fill up the bottle that we've already got in the van? I thought the gas would cost the same no matter what bottle it's put in to?


Thanks again :)
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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by Dutto on Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:52 pm

bumperman wrote:Biological laundry tablets (two) for the main loo cassette.
o Biological liquid detergent (half a cap full per fill) for the flush tank.
o Either concentrated orange juice (Tesco 28p a bottle) or a single bio laundry tablet for the waste water.
o Milton tablets (two every third fill-up) for the potable water.


Excellent post Dutto, but what is a "flush tank", I don't have one on our Duetto, I'm pretty sure flush water is supplied from the main (potable) tank via the electric pump, but of course I could be wrong...................?

We keep a separate supply of clean water in a 4 gallon water carrier in the bathroom for drinking etc.

regards
bumperman

As far as I know, ALL Thetford cassette toilets have a flush tank!

If you open the exterior door you will see an odd shaped pipe with a yellow cap at the top of the enclosure and a small length of plastic tube running down the left hand side.

The odd shaped pipe is the "fill" pipe for the flush tank. You have to pull it towards you to remove the cap.

The small length of plastic tube is the level indicator for the flush tank.

If you overfill the flush tank it will overflow into the toilet bowl. If the cassette is out at the time .... well, lets just say you will have some mopping up to do.

With regard to flushing the loo from your fresh water tank just "think on lad" as my Dad used to say. Do you really want to have your toilet flush system connected to your drinking water tank? Personally, if it was actually connected that way I would remove it immediately!

Enjoy.

Best regards,
drinksallround


Last edited by Dutto on Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Modify just in case modern toilets don't have a flush tank!)

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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by boxerman on Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:00 pm

[quote="Dutto"]
bumperman wrote:

As far as I know, ALL Thetford cassette toilets have a flush tank!

Ours doesn't! the flush water comes from the main fresh water tank, like Bumperman's.

Frank
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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by Nuttybeader on Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:14 pm

Our Duetto does not have a flush tank. We had one on our old motorhome, but not in this one.
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Flush tank and gas

Post by murph on Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:46 pm

Hi All,
Dutto is definatly wrong about flush tanks we have had vans where the flush water comes from the main tank and vans ( inc our present one) with a seperate flush tank. With regards to gas price I was suggesting was for autogas (I have never used camping gas) but was quoted £50 something to buy a c gas cylinder from a dealer in Somerset NO Go. With regards to usage we refill about every 5 days in winter using a 1 x 6kg cylinder when the Truma room heater is used regularly and about every 10 days in summer. Cooking is done on the hob ( the oven is used as a cupboard to hold a basket of fruit and veg) and the water heater is on every day for about 2 hours.


Brian2

PS You can not refill your ordinary Calor Type gas cylinder.




Last edited by murph on Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added PS)
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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by sharloid on Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:41 pm

Thank you for the replies!

I think we have most of it down now though just getting a little confused about the gas from the above posts.

In the van it's a 3.9kg orange container which says Calor on it. As reading from above it seems some say don't fill it in uk, or can't get it in eu, or can't fill it at all?

So for clarification;

Can our orange (propane?) Calor bottle be re-filled in the UK and Europe?
Is this done at campsites/camping shops?
Do we need any kind of adaptor?
Is it worthwhile getting a regulator so we can see how much is left (e.g. to show the bottle isn't full when using the Channel Tunnel)?


Thanks


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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by boxerman on Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:01 pm

sharloid wrote:Thank you for the replies!

I think we have most of it down now though just getting a little confused about the gas from the above posts.

In the van it's a 3.9kg orange container which says Calor on it. As reading from above it seems some say don't fill it in uk, or can't get it in eu, or can't fill it at all?

So for clarification;

Can our orange (propane?) Calor bottle be re-filled in the UK and Europe?
UK only - and it should be red not orange
Is this done at campsites/camping shops?
Caravan sites some garages and some other places carry stocks but do not refill them on site. Take your empty one in and exchange it for a full one around £15:75.some places will swap Flo-Gas etc for Calor but some (very few) will only swap Calor for Calor etc.
Do we need any kind of adaptor?
Is it worthwhile getting a regulator so we can see how much is left (e.g. to show the bottle isn't full when using the Channel Tunnel)?
Gauges and/or magnetic indicators that stick on the bottle are about as much use as a chocolate teapot, don't waste your money (like wot I did)

HTH
Frank


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Re: Toilets, gas electricity?

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:13 am

[quote="boxerman"]
Dutto wrote:
bumperman wrote:

As far as I know, ALL Thetford cassette toilets have a flush tank!

Ours doesn't! the flush water comes from the main fresh water tank, like Bumperman's.

Frank

Hi All,

Just to add my 2 penn'orth, and add to the confusion.

On our Symphony, we have a flush tank on the Thetford toilet, as described by Dutto, above the toilet waste tank.

This is completely separate from the main "fresh" water tank, which is under the vehicle.
(Together with the 'grey' water tank.)

There are 2 separate pumps, one on each 'system'.

We also carry a 4 litre container of potable water for tea, teeth etc.

Mike D
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Gas

Post by murph on Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:57 am

Hi Sharloid,
Your 3.9 kg gas cylinder is the smallest that Calor ( the biggest of the UK bottled gas suppliers) supply and the gas in them is for unknown reasons considerably dearer than the gas in larger bottles, most gas lockers wil accept as a minimum 1 6kg and 1 3.5kg bottle so I would suggest that if you plan to continue changing Calor type bottles rather than the refillable route, that you get the largest size that will fit your gas locker, probably a 6kg. If you type the word Calor into the search box at the top right of the forum page you will find lots of information on gas bottles ETC.


Brian2
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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by Dutto on Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:06 pm

Hi there,

I stand corrected.

However, if toilets actually do share a tank with ordinary drinking water then they are breaking a very long standing UK principle of separation.

On the continent it is common to see pressurised toilet flush systems coming straight off the mains whereas in the UK we use cisterns that are separated from the main water systems by means of a ball-cock.

The reason for this is that in the UK we have always provided potable (drinkable) water to our houses and if the pressure in the main water supply ever failed they wanted to remove the possibility of contamination by bacteria from the toilet and also what could be stagnant water if the toilet had not been used.

Having seen a number of "non-return" valves fail over the years I would NEVER allow my potable water tank to be DIRECTLY linked to my toilet flush system.

On one occasion the NRV failed on the outlet of a compressor. The compressor spun backwards so fast that the attached power turbine sucked air back through the exhaust and set the Rolls-Royce Maxi Avon gas generator turbine spinning backwards at 110% of its rated speed!

It was scary, but still not as scary as the thought of having human waste in my drinking water!

Best regards,
drinksallround


Last edited by Dutto on Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling (darned auto-spell again!).)

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Gas toilets ETC

Post by murph on Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:50 am

Hi All,
Another point about refilllable cylinders (bottles). With refillable cylinders you put in what the cylinder will accept, on occasions when we wern't sure when we last filled up we have put less than £2 worth of gas in, but with non refillable (Calor type) cylinders because you have to empty the cylinder every time, it will run out, (unless you have an auto changeover valve) usually during the night or when you are cooking a meal. Even with only 1x6kg we never run out. Dutto says he uses Calor and camping gas for convenience what's convenient about humping gas cylinders compared to the equivalent of filling you car with petrol.

Brian2

PS I am not a shareholder in Gaslow or Gas it. just a very satisfied user who doesnt believe in uneccesary work or expense.
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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by boxerman on Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:48 pm

murph wrote: what's convenient about humping gas cylinders compared to the equivalent of filling you car with petrol.

Brian2

PS I am not a shareholder in Gaslow or Gas it. just a very satisfied user who doesnt believe in uneccesary work or expense.
It's convenient in that you can get a replacement cylinder in many, many places in the UK whereas places to refill your refillable cylinder can be few and far between. I have two 3.9 propane bottles, two regulators and a "T" piece. When one runs out, I turn it off and turn the other one on - simples!
For the amount of gas we use, there is no way I am going to spend £150 or so to buy & fit a refillable bottle and have to have a non-refillable as backup in case the first one runs out as I would never get my investment back.
Horses for courses, if you use lots of gas then it's worthwhile if not, it isn't. And for newbies, it would be better to find out what your needs are first before spending money on something which is not required.

My Two- Penn'orth

Frank
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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by Dutto on Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:24 pm

murph wrote:........ Dutto says he uses Calor and camping gas for convenience what's convenient about humping gas cylinders compared to the equivalent of filling you car with petrol.

.........

Brian,

When we are "on-site" in Spain the awning is out, the Privacy Room is erected, the hold-down straps are in place, the furniture is in place, the mats are down on the floor, the windbreaks are pegged and braced, the waste tank is piped into the drain, the water tank is a hose-length away from the tap, the WC emptying point is 30 metres away, the TV cable is plugged in to cable supply and the computer is on wi-fi; and for gas??

Well, I just disconnect the CG cylinder, stick it on the back of my push-bike and nip down to the shop to change it.

THAT is "convenience"! look here bow

I admit, it can be a bind if we run out of gas at a critical time but it's not generally a drama; and a small price to pay compared to dismantling everything just to go and get some gas!

Best regards,
drinksallround
Ian

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Gas ETC

Post by murph on Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:05 pm

Hi Ian,
I agree as you say horses for courses but we have never had trouble finding somewhere to fill our gas cylinder even before our book which lists autogas garages, on the continent the internet will find them for you, and in our experience wild camping and using CLs &CSs cooking our own meals plus water heating and showers several times a week in the van, our refillable has paid for itself many times over in about 8 years of use.
If you only ever eat out and dont use the water heater or space heater then a refillable would be false economy but if you have to buy a 6kg or larger cylinder every 10 to 14 camping days it is much more economical and more covenient.
I am sure Roli who has recently changed over will agree with me


Brian2
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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by vwt4 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:16 pm

Hi
I have just been told of an "adapter"that is available that will enable you to refill a standard 6kg propane bottle at an autogas outlet, anyone heard of these and there legality, apparently they they are machined from brass and can be bought with or without adapters for the continent
mike
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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by deckie on Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:13 pm

Hi Mike,

I was a bit reluctant to post this as it is frowned upon, for legal and safety reasons ……

But …. I’ve got broad shoulders (and know what I am doing Whistle1 )

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Brian

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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by vwt4 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:54 pm

Brian
thanks for reply, I have seen those on Ebay, I was wondering if they are actually legal to use, I do appreciate the safety aspects of flammable gases. I do not actually own one but have to admit was thinking about it considering the price of a replacement cylinder compared to the price of "filling up" at a garage (assuming you can find a garage that will let you)
mike
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Re: Toilets, gas & electricity?

Post by deckie on Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:08 pm

Hi Mike,

I’m sure that if anyone else owns the Bottle then it would be against their rules !!

‘Nuf said Whistle1

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