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Post by StewPotch on Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:07 am

I thought I typed this earlier but either I’m suffering from amnesia or one of the moderators has removed it?
No doubt I’ll be banned too for speaking out. Anyway, this is what I wrote earlier.

At the risk of upsetting moderators & staff of the forum, can I ask what has happened to all the comments by the member called ‘kaspian’ ?

Surely he hasn’t been banned and all traces of him removed because   he actually dared to speak the truth?
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Post by daisy mae on Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:41 am

Kaspian is one of the sensible ones on here, and has been a big help to me,it will be for the worst not better if Kaspian leaves.He is very knowledgeable  and gives helpful advice, also knows what he is talking about.  

 This forum is not the forum it once was , hence the reason I  am very rarely on now or even read. 

Some on here do not like criticism of a certain person,  even though some on here have found his attitude unacceptable.   they will know who I am referring to without naming.

A very Happy New Year. 

Margaret

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Post by StewPotch on Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:49 am

daisy mae wrote:Kaspian is one of the sensible ones on here, and has been a big help to me,it will be for the worst not better if Kaspian leaves.He is very knowledgeable  and gives helpful advice, also knows what he is talking about.  

 This forum is not the forum it once was , hence the reason I  am very rarely on now or even read. 

Some on here do not like criticism of a certain person,  even though some on here have found his attitude unacceptable.   they will know who I am referring to without naming.

A very Happy New Year. 

Margaret
You are 100% correct Margaret about Kaspian being very helpful and he was one of the few that does know what he’s talking about.
But, he didn’t actually leave - he was banned and all his previous posts seem to be removed as well.  scratch head
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Post by AllaFEvans on Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:23 am

Kaspian made a comment in this thread :  
http://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t28235p50-tips-on-how-to-not-trip-the-camp-power
saying that the moderator and members had behaved badly and he was ashamed for them. 

His comments were not out of order, but as you can see from the thread the moderator and the other attackers were.

It seems that his support for me got him into 'hot water' because as Stewpotch says, his comments were unfairly removed.


Please can I ask why the comments were removed, they were perfectly acceptable and in support of accusations that I was behaving under hand when I am clearly unable to work because of my Terminal Cancer prognosis? This had already been highlighted in another thread of which the Forum moderator concerned had participated.
  
Despite me highlighting my illness and difficulty working, you will see an absence of apologies from those who made the incorrect and unpleasant comments? Nor does any moderator step in and asking them to apologise. 



May I ask if Kaspian has been banned, if so why?
If he has been banned, why haven't those that made vicious attacks on me also been banned or reprimanded? 


scratch head


Last edited by AllaFEvans on Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by StewPotch on Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:17 am

Well said Alla but I think you’ll be waiting a long time for anyone of them to ‘man up’ and apologise to you or better still, throw themselves on their swords!
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Post by daisy mae on Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:52 am

AllaFEvans wrote:Kaspian made a comment in this thread :  
http://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t28235p50-tips-on-how-to-not-trip-the-camp-power
saying that the moderator and members had behaved badly and he was ashamed for them. 

His comments were not out of order, but as you can see from the thread the moderator and the other attackers were.

It seems that his support for me got him into 'hot water' because as Stewpotch says, his comments were unfairly removed.


Please can I ask why the comments were removed, they were perfectly acceptable and in support of accusations that I was behaving under hand when I am clearly unable to work because of my Terminal Cancer prognosis? This had already been highlighted in another thread of which the Forum moderator concerned had participated.
  
Despite me highlighting my illness and difficulty working, you will see no apologies from those who made the incorrect and unpleasant comments?
 


May I ask if Kaspian has been banned, if so why?
If he has been banned, why haven't those that made vicious attacks on me also been banned or reprimanded? 


scratch head, . 
How disgraceful for a member to be treated like that, obviously this forum has gone the way of a forum that I left years ago, same  reason, nasty ,bitchiness.  

I will probably be banned now, I say how t is it  , I also give praise when it is due, if folk don`t like that attitude, tough.At least they know where they stand, and not be too faced as many are.

Looks as though this forum is turning into an elite forum only for members that tow the line, that mods and some members want.Agree with everything that way you may be allowed to stay.

How disappointing, it use to be such a lovely helpful friendly forum, which many a time I have said.I  have said thank you for all the the help I have received over the years, and hopefully I have also helped others in return.

Sad,and angry of how Kaspian has been treated. a loss to this forum. I could think of others that need to leave  censored!
Margaret

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Post by dbroada on Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:22 am

I haven't joined in this thread but have taken an interest in some of its twists and turns. What I will say though is that Paulmold recently posted a set of forum rules that contained the following

Posts debating how we should, or should not run this forum will NOT be tolerated, neither will posts discussing enforcement of such by Admin or moderators. Posts of this nature will be removed without any notice. Also, posts that are deemed damaging to our forum i.e. threatening, offensive, factually inaccurate, slanderous or otherwise portraying our forum in a defamatory or negative manner will be edited or deleted without any warning or explanation.

We have never banned a member before but will without hesitation from now on.

While I suspect this is open to interpretation, the sentence "or otherwise portraying our forum in a defamatory or negative manner will be edited or deleted without any warning or explanation." can be used to ban nearly everybody who has commented on this thread.

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Post by AllaFEvans on Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:34 pm

dbroada wrote:I haven't joined in this thread but have taken an interest in some of its twists and turns. What I will say though is that Paulmold recently posted a set of forum rules that contained the following

Posts debating how we should, or should not run this forum will NOT be tolerated, neither will posts discussing enforcement of such by Admin or moderators. Posts of this nature will be removed without any notice. Also, posts that are deemed damaging to our forum i.e. threatening, offensive, factually inaccurate, slanderous or otherwise portraying our forum in a defamatory or negative manner will be edited or deleted without any warning or explanation.

We have never banned a member before but will without hesitation from now on.

While I suspect this is open to interpretation, the sentence "or otherwise portraying our forum in a defamatory or negative manner will be edited or deleted without any warning or explanation." can be used to ban nearly everybody who has commented on this thread.

That reads to me like 'We are the dictators that control this forum and will not tolerate anyone questioning how we behave". 

Surely it is for the members who have paid for the privilege to comment on how it is run? 

There have been enough comments made by many different people to raise questions. Rather than dictate to people and quash their freedom to speak, surely it is time for those at the top to listen to the criticism and adapt accordingly for the benefit of the members, some of whom pay large sums.
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Post by Tinwheeler on Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:11 pm

If I was Kaspian, I certainly wouldn’t appreciate the mods discussing publicly what had transpired between me and them. In my view, it’s their business, not ours.
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Post by AllaFEvans on Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:17 pm

Tinwheeler wrote:If I was Kaspian, I certainly wouldn’t appreciate the mods discussing publicly what had transpired between me and them. In my view, it’s their business, not ours.
I don't see anyone suggesting the moderators should discuss private business?

I have already had email exchanges with  Kaspian, and from what I heard I am pretty sure he would not mind it being made public.
But maybe my asking the reason was inappropriate, but then I knew the background.

"Posts debating how we should, or should not run this forum will NOT be tolerated". 
That is not from a team that recognise democratic operation, that is from a team that think "we know we are always right and you have no right to question that".

My point, and those above, is about  members being allowed the freedom to reasonably speak without censorship.
It's a fundamental right we all have by law, why do those at the top feel they can operate differently here?

This forum needs serious change, starting by moderating what Paul Mold recently posted.


Come on guys, people speaking out signals the opportunity for change and improvement, not a heavy hand

.


Last edited by AllaFEvans on Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:48 pm; edited 6 times in total
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Post by Paulmold on Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:21 pm

AllaFEvans wrote:
Tinwheeler wrote:If I was Kaspian, I certainly wouldn’t appreciate the mods discussing publicly what had transpired between me and them. In my view, it’s their business, not ours.
I don't see anyone suggesting the moderators should discuss private business?
Allan I quote from your own post

'May I ask if Kaspian has been banned, if so why?'


To explain why would be to discuss private business.


'

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Post by StewPotch on Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:28 pm

Dictators - Pretty much how I see it. You find that when insignificant little people who had insignificant little jobs are suddenly given more power than being in charge of a TV remote control become the Waffen SS.

censored! censored! censored!
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Post by StewPotch on Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:30 pm

Allan, I do know he wasn’t banned by Admin. He was banned by a Moderator bouncing
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Post by Tinwheeler on Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:28 pm

I’ve discovered something unusual about this forum and it’s the fact that the moderators allow discussion of their actions. 

Is that a good or a bad thing? Take a look at the posts this stance has given rise to and it's truly not a good advert for this forum. The disharmony has already been spotted by a joiner today. 

For goodness sake, the mods are volunteers and calling them names isn’t acting in the spirit I'd expect from adults who are here of their own free will. Personally, I wouldn’t blame the moderators for banning all further discussion about their decisions.
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Post by AllaFEvans on Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:44 pm

Tinwheeler wrote:I’ve discovered something unusual about this forum and it’s the fact that the moderators allow discussion of their actions. 

Is that a good or a bad thing? Take a look at the posts this stance has given rise to and it's truly not a good advert for this forum. The disharmony has already been spotted by a joiner today. 

For goodness sake, the mods are volunteers and calling them names isn’t acting in the spirit I'd expect from adults who are here of their own free will. Personally, I wouldn’t blame the moderators for banning all further discussion about their decisions.
Tinwheeler, This post has arisen because someone was so upset about attacks on another member, without intervention by a moderator, that they used their feet to walk away.

There were further attacks on the same member mentioned above, one of which was by you, that question the integrity of said member. 
Unpleasant comments were made by you and others, one of which was a moderator. 

Kaspian spoke up in support of that member under attack, had his supporting comments removed and was banned.


You write, " The disharmony has already been spotted by a joiner today." 

Which disharmony are you referring to, the unfairness on the member who was attacked, or members commenting on someone being banned for speaking out about said attacks?
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Post by Tinwheeler on Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:59 pm

AllaFEvans wrote:
Tinwheeler wrote:I’ve discovered something unusual about this forum and it’s the fact that the moderators allow discussion of their actions. 

Is that a good or a bad thing? Take a look at the posts this stance has given rise to and it's truly not a good advert for this forum. The disharmony has already been spotted by a joiner today. 

For goodness sake, the mods are volunteers and calling them names isn’t acting in the spirit I'd expect from adults who are here of their own free will. Personally, I wouldn’t blame the moderators for banning all further discussion about their decisions.
Tinwheeler, This post has arisen because someone was so upset about attacks on another member, without intervention by a moderator, that they used their feet to walk away.

There were further attacks on the same member mentioned above, one of which was by you, that question the integrity of said member. 
Unpleasant comments were made by you and others, one of which was a moderator. 

Kaspian spoke up in support of that member under attack, had his supporting comments removed and was banned.


You write, " The disharmony has already been spotted by a joiner today." 

Which disharmony are you referring to, the unfairness on the member who was attacked, or members commenting on someone being banned for speaking out about said attacks?

I am talking about the disharmony shown here, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the issue.

I have attacked no one on this forum, nor have I made unpleasant comments. If you believe I have, then provide links to the evidence. If I can see I have acted inappropriately, I will willingly apologise.
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Post by StewPotch on Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:03 pm

Tinwheeler, maybe after you’ve been a member for a couple of years you might have a different opinion.
A couple of years ago I had a serious gas leak inside my van due to poor materials and workmanship.
Immediately a moderator accused me of interfering with the gas mysefl and an other mod said everything possible to defend A/S.
At one time this forum was a great source of knowledge for A/S owners but is now developing into an A/S sycophants club.
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Post by Cymro on Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:05 pm

It's distressing to see that this disharmony has snowballed. I had naively hoped it would wither. I think there are by now three separate issues, to some or all of which various members have taken umbrage:

1. The initial alleged disrespect of a Moderator;
2. The subsequent closure of a thread by another Moderator, for which no explanation was given at the time;
3. The subsequent banning of a Member [Kaspian].

This must not be allowed to fester. I believe that the Moderators must - jointly - draft a statement which addresses the three issues, and gives reasoned explanations for their actions under the Forum Rules.

I value the Moderators' considerable efforts in maintaining the Forum; I think they now need to grasp the nettle, collectively.

It should be a condition of the posting of the Moderators' Statement that no discussion thereof should be posted, the matter being thereby finally closed.

Remaining a member of the Forum thereafter should not be taken as supporting, or disagreeing with, the Statement.

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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:52 pm

AllaFEvans wrote:

That reads to me like 'We are the dictators that control this forum and will not tolerate anyone questioning how we behave". 

Surely it is for the members who have paid for the privilege to comment on how it is run? 


You haven't paid for access to the Forum. Donations to offset the running cost are entirely optional, and are indicated by "Forum Supporter" instead of "Forum Member" under the member's name.

Participation in the Forum is entirely optional under the Forum Rules which you agree to when registering.

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Post by Admin on Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:56 pm

As Admin of this site I'm extremely saddened to read some of these posts. 

Due to my current circumstances I'm unable, and have been for sometime to monitor and keep a close eye on the forum like I once did. 

In defence of the mods in my absence they've obviously felt they have reacted in the right way to any issues that have arisen. I'm not sure why simple back and fourth debate between members gets so personal and bitter. It seems a lot of content has been edited or removed so it's difficult for me to draw any unbiased conclusion at this time.

I have received a number of complaints directly about what they claim is the attitude of the staff, some of which makes for uncomfortable reading. Please remember that Mods / Staff members give up their time freely, they are not paid in anyway and there is very little reward or recognition for their time and effort. It can be difficult for someone who is responsible for keeping a happy status quo as well as interact with members in an official capacity as well as just trying to be just a regular member at the same time.

I personally do not wish to see anyone leaving the forum, and would request members come together to sort out any remaining bad feeling. I have always been proud of the constant comments over the years saying we are a friendly & good spirited forum and to read some of the comments saying we have become Dictators, Bitchy, Nasty, Sycophants, and much more leaves me utterly devastated.

What has happened? Come on guys we are better than this surely?

Regards

Ed (Admin)

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Post by AllaFEvans on Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:28 pm

I have been at the centre of 3 different 'attacks' so feel, maybe wrongly, that I have a right to comment more than most.

Clearly Ed is concerned, having received complaints that make 'uncomfortable reading'.

Cymro makes some excellent suggestions on the way forward,  which I think are perfect, 
I will only add that I think Kaspian should be 'unbanned' and made welcome again. 
Once that is done I suggest we all go back to 1st base and pretend this all never happened.


It is a really great forum with lots to offer, even as a newbie I can see that, with many members that go out of their way to help others.
Long may that continue.
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Post by Admin on Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:35 pm

Posts debating how we should, or should not run this forum will NOT be tolerated, neither will posts discussing enforcement of such by Admin or moderators. Posts of this nature will be removed without any notice. Also, posts that are deemed damaging to our forum i.e. threatening, offensive, factually inaccurate, slanderous or otherwise portraying our forum in a defamatory or negative manner will be edited or deleted without any warning or explanation.

I would just like to add to the above that the forum rules that have been called into question, have been in place since we launched in 2011 and they are inline with other forums as the norm. 

As Admin of this website I am personally responsible for content posted on this site and having had a bad episode with a very unstable forum rival who was obviously jealous at us launching ASOF caused much disruption which many members have probably long forgotten. 

When members register as has been pointed out they agree to these rules, while they may seem somewhat regimental they are there for both our protection as well as members. They have never previously been called into question.

Hope this resolves any concerns.

Regards

Ed (Admin)

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Post by Lorfal on Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:14 pm

I’d like to add my voice in support of kaspian too, he’s been helpful and friendly since I joined. I don’t know what he said to have been banned.....but from what I know of him from this forum , I can’t believe it would have been with malicious intent.

This is is all just a bit much now.....bring back kaspian and move on. I’ve been a member of forums since the internet began jeeze lol and experienced a lot worse than this!
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:21 pm

According to the Member list/Kaspian's profile he is online now?

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Post by Cymro on Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:23 pm

I have every confidence that Members of the Forum will, in the light of Admin's recent posts, revert to our normal friendly and constructive business. My confidence is such that I've just made my annual donation.

Long Live the Friendly Forum!

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