Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Royal Rich on Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:13 pm

Hi to all you Autosleepers!! My 2018 Broadway has a Tracker fitted.

I have had a problem , maybe someone has an opinion or has experienced the following themselves:--

Firstly I need to give some facts.  In September my wife and I went to Canada for 24 days, leaving motorhome on drive,locked and Tracker on.  On day after return took motorhome out for run. No problem starting vehicle.  All other times I never leave vehicle more than 13-14 days before giving it a "run".  

Took motorhome out on 29 Nov.  13 days later ( 12 Dec) got call from Tracker people  -- " you have a flat battery on your motorhome".  Sure enough I did, could  only open drivers door with key, not c/locking fob. Battery dead.  Called Peugeot Assistance, they started vehicle with jump leads. Took vehicle for a good run.  AA   Suggested Tracker drained battery, but to be safe booked vehicle in with my Peugeot dealer for Battery check. They fully  charged battery then did a MIDTRONICS test. Told me Check revealed "Battery Good".

My query is   1. Could a Tracker system discharge a battery to the extent that it is "flat" in only 2 weeks?
                     2. If answer to 1. is Yes, how come battery was fine after Canada trip i.e. 24/25 days?

My Autosleeper dealer was convinced it was a duff battery. I will be contacting them on Monday to report the Peugeot dealers findings.

In meantime any help, opinions etc.really welcome!! Sorry for long winded tale of woe.  

Royal Rich.
Royal Rich
Royal Rich
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 10
Joined : 2018-08-23
Location : High Peak
Auto-Sleeper : Broadway EB
Vehicle Year : 2018

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Doonhamer5 on Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:21 pm

Hi RR

1. Yes
2. Because it wasn't as cold in September

It's a real problem - happened to us exactly as to you.  Since then we've left the Malvern on electric hook up and no further problems.  I'd been really worried that it had knackered the vehicle battery but we've been using it OK since without any issue.

Hope you can find a solution.   Fiona.
Doonhamer5
Doonhamer5
Donator
Donator

Female

Posts : 89
Joined : 2017-12-28
Location : Dumfries and Galloway
Auto-Sleeper : Malvern
Vehicle Year : 2014

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Paulmold on Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:26 pm

If you have the ec500 power box and you have been turning it off when not being used, then the solar only charges the leisure battery. If left switched on and put into 'smart' charging then the batteries are charged in alternating 4 hour periods.


Last edited by Paulmold on Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
If life just doesn't add up, start subtracting
Paulmold
Paulmold
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 15875
Joined : 2011-02-21
Member Age : 68
Location : Mold, North Wales
Auto-Sleeper : Sussex Duo
Vehicle Year : 2010

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Royal Rich on Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:29 pm

80 w solar panel.
Royal Rich
Royal Rich
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 10
Joined : 2018-08-23
Location : High Peak
Auto-Sleeper : Broadway EB
Vehicle Year : 2018

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Paulmold on Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:31 pm

See answer above, I edited it while you were posting.

_________________
If life just doesn't add up, start subtracting
Paulmold
Paulmold
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 15875
Joined : 2011-02-21
Member Age : 68
Location : Mold, North Wales
Auto-Sleeper : Sussex Duo
Vehicle Year : 2010

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Doonhamer5 on Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:40 pm

Thanks Paulmold - might give that a try though I am not sure we get enough solar in winter up here.
Doonhamer5
Doonhamer5
Donator
Donator

Female

Posts : 89
Joined : 2017-12-28
Location : Dumfries and Galloway
Auto-Sleeper : Malvern
Vehicle Year : 2014

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Royal Rich on Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:05 pm

Yes I too thank you Paulmold for your advice. I also think we do not get enough "solar" power in Winter where we live either!!

Thank you too to all other people who have sent advice/comments. All taken on board.
Royal Rich
Royal Rich
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 10
Joined : 2018-08-23
Location : High Peak
Auto-Sleeper : Broadway EB
Vehicle Year : 2018

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Tinwheeler on Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:03 pm

We don’t get enough sunlight in winter either but a lot depends on where the van is parked (shade/shadow) as well as the weather.
Tinwheeler
Tinwheeler
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 335
Joined : 2018-09-20
Location : South West
Auto-Sleeper : Warwick Duo
Vehicle Year : 2017

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Suppersready on Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:43 pm

In my experience the 80w panel will not keep both leisure and starter batteries fully charged during winter. Even on very bright days the sun is too low in the sky to give really useful charging for any real length of time.
Turn the Ec500 off and as said solar is transfered to leisure only. Which seems daft really as in this mode the leisure batteries have no drain on them. Would have been much better for charge to go to the starter battery when EC turned off ( unless there is some techi reason this is not possible ).
So leave on hook up or put on once a week For top up, or increase solar. I do a lot of off grid wild camping so have increased my solar to 400w. On bright but no sun days in winter I am still seeing 1.5 to 2.5 amps. On sunny days up to 3.5/4 amps. In the height of summer  I could power a small town ! but I have to trade one off against the other. When parked up on drive I do not need to worry even during dull winter days.
Suppersready
Suppersready
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 170
Joined : 2017-02-12
Member Age : 57
Location : Worcestershire
Auto-Sleeper : Corinium FB
Vehicle Year : 2017

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Peter Brown on Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:15 pm

Paulmold wrote: If you have the ec500 power box and you have been turning it off when not being used, then the solar only charges the leisure battery. If left switched on and put into 'smart' charging then the batteries are charged in alternating 4 hour periods.

Readers please note: This thread is only about auto-sleepers on a Peugeot base that have the Sargent EC500 system installed AND the red position on the ignition switch by which you can disconnect the vehicle starter battery.


The system is as Paul describes above but at this time of year, if you leave the EC500 switched on (on the unit itself, not the control panel) the energy consumed by the smart charging circuitry is more than the solar panel can supply so the leisure battery will become discharged and the tracker and alarm will discharge the starter battery, depending on the condition and status of the batteries at the start, this can happen in 7 days and will almost certainly have happened in 14 days.

To avoid this happening, Sargent advise that you should switch off the EC500 unit when the van is not in use and Peugeot advise that you should disconnect the vehicle battery if the van is not to be used for a couple of weeks (this can now easily be done via the ignition key). Without electric hookup or regular driving (every one or two days) this is the ONLY way you can avoid your batteries becoming discharged at this time of year.

The Sargent EC700 system that will be installed in newly designed or revised AS models has a built in tracker powered by the leisure battery and the ability to power a vehicle alarm from the leisure battery. These facilities will, I believe, be supported by the solar panel with the EC700 switched off, it will also be much easier to configure/reconfigure the smart charging facilities depending on requirements. It will still be necessary to follow Peugeot advice and disconnect the starter battery when in storage but, in this instance, the tracker and alarm will still be fully functional - central locking will not.

_________________
Peter #1
Peter Brown
Peter Brown
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 5336
Joined : 2012-11-10
Member Age : 67
Location : Staffs
Auto-Sleeper : Malvern
Vehicle Year : 2011

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Royal Rich on Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:59 pm

I understand what you are saying Peter, but surely if I disconnect the vehicle battery via the ignition key ( as recommended by Peugeot) the Tracker System will not function? My insurance company will not like that as it will make the vehicle vulnerable. Having a Tracker this time of year is a double edged sword?
Royal Rich
Royal Rich
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 10
Joined : 2018-08-23
Location : High Peak
Auto-Sleeper : Broadway EB
Vehicle Year : 2018

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Peter Brown on Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:12 pm

I've heard this point made many times.

Peugeot have designed a vehicle that requires the starter battery to be disconnect in storage to prevent discharge and have built in a facility for this to be done. No insurance company could fault you for following the vehicle manufacturers instructions.

Your insurance company may have made an additional requirement of insurance that a tracker be fitted and if so they must have been specific about how it is to be used. If you have accepted an obligation to use it all of the time then you have also accepted an obligation to keep it powered which means that, at this time of year, you can only leave the vehicle unattended for more than a week or so if you are able to provide an electric hookup or frequent battery charging for several hours at a time.

_________________
Peter #1
Peter Brown
Peter Brown
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 5336
Joined : 2012-11-10
Member Age : 67
Location : Staffs
Auto-Sleeper : Malvern
Vehicle Year : 2011

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Royal Rich on Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:54 pm

Fair point Peter, thank you for your advice/comments. Will check with my insurance (caravan Guard).
Royal Rich
Royal Rich
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 10
Joined : 2018-08-23
Location : High Peak
Auto-Sleeper : Broadway EB
Vehicle Year : 2018

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Suppersready on Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:04 pm

Would you really want to isolate the vehicle battery, even though a manufactures fitment ? Your insurance will stipulate manufactures alarm fitted and if you have declared a tracker as well I would not feel confident making a claim if the worst was to happen.
Even if covered would you want the agravation and trouble involved if again the worst was to happen.
Suppersready
Suppersready
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 170
Joined : 2017-02-12
Member Age : 57
Location : Worcestershire
Auto-Sleeper : Corinium FB
Vehicle Year : 2017

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by bolero boy on Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:18 pm

I 'only' have 100w solar panel, which keeps the vehicle battery and two X 95ah leisure batteries fully charged while on the drive..I have just been to the van now, dull, raining but just sufficient charge to overcome the alarm and immobiliser and all fully charged.

I have a simple dual channel regulator feeding both sets of batteries in the ratio I choose.

of course, I dont have a Sargeant PSU, nor does the solar system go anywhere near any other electrical systems, it just focusses on charging the batteries...

ok, I wouldn't last much more than three days off grid in this weather as there's certainly not enough sunshine juice around to offset tv, water pump, heat fan use etc....

but, IMHO, most installations (that don't involve a Sargeant PSU to manage the solar charge) in reasonable daylight should be able to keep a cab and leisure battery fully charged while parked on a driveway.

if it doesn't/can't, then perhaps there's too much of a draw from other (non relevant) electronics.....

..but as Peter says, if it involves an EC 500 and you have an alarm and no EHU supply and you need your immobiliser/tracker activated you will be more than struggling .....

in order to monitor/manage the distribution of solar power, AS have decided that it should be carried out by the on board Sargeant PSUs...
the 500 series is notoriously power hungry (as stated earlier) and the 700 'might' be a bit better (albeit with its own caveats), yet those with 'stand alone' solar systems don't seem to be affected in the same way...
I'm certainly not.

whilst the thread may be 'about' particular AS models, and their default solar installations, it is perfectly possible to have a solar system that is far more efficient than that being fitted to many AS vans....it's also perfectly possible to modify an AS/Sargeant set up so as to bypass the Sargeant PSU, leaving the owner with more options when parked without EHU.
 
I don't own an AS (not likely to) but if I did and I suffered the solar/battery issues being trotted out on this forum regularly, I would be talking to my local solar company and doing something about it.

_________________
Chris.
Carthago c-compactline i138
bolero boy
bolero boy
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 609
Joined : 2017-10-28
Location : somerset
Auto-Sleeper : Carthago Compactline
Vehicle Year : 2017

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Peter Brown on Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:21 pm

Suppersready wrote:Would you really want to isolate the vehicle battery, even though a manufactures fitment ? Your insurance will stipulate manufactures alarm fitted and if you have declared a tracker as well I would not feel confident making a claim if the worst was to happen.
Even if covered would you want the agravation and trouble involved if again the worst was to happen.

I'm very interested in hearing what Caravan Guard have to say.

It seems to me that allowing your battery to fail or become fully discharged is directly equivalent to isolating the vehicle battery. Battery failure during storage on this type of installation has been reported by forum members many times over the last couple of years causing them expense and inconvenience. It is a fact that if you cant charge the battery you will turn up at your store and find it flat and usually irreparably damaged. To date, the opinion of an insurance assessor of theft in those circumstances has not been reported so concerns about their opinion are hypothetical.

_________________
Peter #1
Peter Brown
Peter Brown
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 5336
Joined : 2012-11-10
Member Age : 67
Location : Staffs
Auto-Sleeper : Malvern
Vehicle Year : 2011

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Liam on Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:39 pm

If I read the OP's intro to the problem correctly - the vehicle is parked on their drive - in which case, as Fiona has written above, why not have it on permanent power hook up? 
I know that Peter [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is not a real fan of this option for fear of cooking the batteries but with the Sargent EC500 Power Control System they clearly say that "the charger can be left switched on continuously" (I did confirm this with Sargent technical support). 
It's "smart charge" design feature will deliver a float charge once the battery is in the fully charged state. And has been mentioned previously - given the numerous features (trackers, ECU's etc.) drawing current all of the time whilst in store - the batteries will fluctuate in use and therefore not be in any danger of over charge. 
I personally can vouch for this approach, as the EC500 is fitted to my van and having now used the permanent EHU method whilst laid up at home for the last 4+ years I have never had a problem with any of the batteries.
As has also been said - taking a vehicle out for the occasional short run every 2 or 3 weeks is not really sufficient to properly top up the batteries. Indeed you are likely to be using more power on some days if you have wipers, heaters, lights, etc operating and besides this time of year you are possibly contaminating the underside of the vehicle with salt!

_________________
Liam

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.
Liam
Liam
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 502
Joined : 2014-05-10
Member Age : 75
Location : South Glos
Auto-Sleeper : Malvern Mercedes
Vehicle Year : 2014

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Suppersready on Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:40 pm

Hyperthetical yes ... however concerns still remain until quantified. As already mentioned,I personally would not the agrevation if claims, waiting for settlement, purchase and possible wait for new van etc etc.
Suppersready
Suppersready
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 170
Joined : 2017-02-12
Member Age : 57
Location : Worcestershire
Auto-Sleeper : Corinium FB
Vehicle Year : 2017

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Spospe on Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:50 pm

Why are not AS telling us (in their user handbooks) the best way to use the systems they are fitting?
Spospe
Spospe
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 1053
Joined : 2013-11-17
Member Age : 75
Location : South Manchester
Auto-Sleeper : Warwick Duo
Vehicle Year : 2014

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Suppersready on Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:02 pm

They do, given the constraints of the system. However as already posted in winter the solar panel can’t cope especially with the power robbing ec500 switched on.
Suppersready
Suppersready
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 170
Joined : 2017-02-12
Member Age : 57
Location : Worcestershire
Auto-Sleeper : Corinium FB
Vehicle Year : 2017

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by bolero boy on Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:27 am

but owners with these set ups don't necessarily have to be governed by the constraints of the fitted systems.....do they?
while its 'nice' to have the solar system going through the Sargeant PSU for (apparent) 'controllability' and monitoring, it's not so useful if it negates the benefit of even some winter sunshine.
similarly, handbook recommendations to isolate vehicle batteries is fine for it not going flat, but not so good for powering alarms, trackers, immobilisers...
not everyone has a handy EHU on their drive or in storage, so getting the most out of a solar system to maintain batteries and comply with insurance conditions is a must.
routing the solar feed into a stand alone dual channel controller (not expensive) instead of into the Sargeant unit (it used to be P14 in the back of the one we had) is a simple way of avoiding its foibles.
alternatively, leave the set up as is but just set the EC in shut down, allow it to feed the leisure battery and fit a Battery Master to trickle feed the vehicle battery.
Battery issues seem to be one of the most regular topics on this forum and we are now in the time of year where there will be a glut of similar postings.
yes, we know that this is how AS have designed the system, but it's poor in its execution and customers, rightly, expect more.
if I had a van with an EC500 which was dragging down the usefulness of a fitted solar system, especially in winter when the van may be laid up on the drive for longer periods, I'd be looking hard at changing it to a simple, stand alone set up and bypassing the resource hungry PSU.

_________________
Chris.
Carthago c-compactline i138
bolero boy
bolero boy
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 609
Joined : 2017-10-28
Location : somerset
Auto-Sleeper : Carthago Compactline
Vehicle Year : 2017

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Peter Brown on Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:07 am

After much thought I feel I must highlight the consequences of implementing either of the work arounds suggested in the previous post by bolero boy.

Firstly remember that this thread is about a 2018 Broadway EB with a Sargent EC500 power system and not Auto-sleeper models in general.

The operation of the EC500 smart charging is controlled by a circuit that monitors the status of both the vehicle and leisure battery. Connecting the two batteries together via a battery master will cause the smart charging to malfunction. Disconnecting the solar panel from the EC500 and connecting it to both batteries via a dual channel controller will have the same effect. In both cases the current and capacity readings on the Sargent control panel will be either disabled or distorted. In summary modifying the system to maintain battery status whilst in winter storage without a hook up will have a major negative impact on the electrical system in normal use.

The few forum members who have reported installing either solution have done so via a switching circuit that allows them to have one system of charging or another, but not both together. I have not noticed any recent posts of the success of that arrangement.

_________________
Peter #1
Peter Brown
Peter Brown
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 5336
Joined : 2012-11-10
Member Age : 67
Location : Staffs
Auto-Sleeper : Malvern
Vehicle Year : 2011

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by bolero boy on Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:55 am

obviously, owners will need to decide if the smart? charging function of a device like EC 500 is worth having, bearing in mind the constraints it puts on usability (especially in storage periods) for some owners...
if it isn't (and only the owner can know this) then it should perfectly possible to disconnect the Sargeant solar connections to all batteries, and to install connections from a dual channel 'smart' charge controller...
this is exactly the set up that many non Sargeant vans employ.
my own van has a similar set up, with Spurs to the control panel purely to give battery level readings.
the smart 240v charger is not affected by my solar set up either, merely making the usual decisions on where to place any required charge.

re the Sargent system getting its self 'confused', what happens with vans with ec500s that do not come with a solar panel? perhaps the ec500 has a 'no solar' setting?

surely the ec500 is perfectly able to manage any 240v charger input based on charge levels if no solar system is present.

any owner of such a van would be at liberty to fit whatever solar set up they liked, perhaps one employing the ec500 but perhaps not....say a dual controller system that does not use the ec500.

this would be the same situation in a van (as in the OP) where the connection of the solar panel to the ec500 was disconnected and the output of the ec500 to all batteries were disconnected as in my earlier post.

_________________
Chris.
Carthago c-compactline i138
bolero boy
bolero boy
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 609
Joined : 2017-10-28
Location : somerset
Auto-Sleeper : Carthago Compactline
Vehicle Year : 2017

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Royal Rich on Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:12 pm

I have been highly impressed with the many forum members who have taken the trouble to give advice/opinions etc. on this topic. Many,many thanks to all of you. Fiona made a good comment about the temp. now versus last September. I now have a lot of info. to digest. Luckily I have access to an external power point for EHU. The ideas of Peter v Bolero Boy make interesting reading!  Thanks to all again.
Royal Rich
Royal Rich
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 10
Joined : 2018-08-23
Location : High Peak
Auto-Sleeper : Broadway EB
Vehicle Year : 2018

Back to top Go down

Autosleeper Vehicle Battery Empty Re: Autosleeper Vehicle Battery

Post by Tinwheeler on Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:11 pm

Alarm/tracker systems flattening batteries seems to be a common problem and often suggested solutions might invalidate any warranty on the vehicle's electrical system.

In the past, I have disconnected the alarm unit from the van battery and connected it to a 12v 3ah burglar alarm battery, in turn, connected to a cheap, stand alone, plug in solar panel.
The vehicle batteries can then be disconnected without affecting the alarm or the main electrical system.

This simple mod can be easily reversed at the start of the new season.

What's your opinion, Peter? Do you see any drawbacks?
Tinwheeler
Tinwheeler
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 335
Joined : 2018-09-20
Location : South West
Auto-Sleeper : Warwick Duo
Vehicle Year : 2017

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum