Single carriageway road

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Post by bristol170kj on Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:22 pm

Has the rule changed recently??  I understood that you can cross a dotted white line in the centre of the road when there is no obstruction.  In other words if a car is parked in the road and there is a car approaching then I must give way?

It appears that more and more people are ignoring this and overtaking parked cars regardless.  I've just had to slam on the brakes to avoid loosing a mirror because some clown didn't want to slow down and came onto my side of the road.

Driving standards appear to be getting worse and some drivers are forcing their way through narrow roads.
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Post by Bad Penny on Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:19 pm

After being away on holidays and returning home, we always know how close to home we are by the standard of driving. My son who lives in Devon, says the same thing when he returns home for a visit.
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Post by Kingham on Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:24 pm

I command the road in such situations.

If the road is wide enough for a parked car, me on the opposite (clear) side of the road and just enough room for an oncoming car to squeeze through between me and the parked car, I will put myself well wide and effectively block the oncoming vehicle's path, making it give way before it reaches the parked car.

If it doesn't give way, it will be at a virtual standstill before I clear enough room for it to pass. It's as simple as, their side of the road is blocked and I refuse to drive in the gutter detritus or bottom my suspension in sunken drain grates, because someone is too impatient for a second or two.

It's never gone wrong yet, but if ever does, the fact that I'm on my own side of the centrelines, along with my dashcam footage is security enough for me.

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Post by bristol170kj on Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:46 pm

Kingham wrote:I command the road in such situations.

If the road is wide enough for a parked car, me on the opposite (clear) side of the road and just enough room for an oncoming car to squeeze through between me and the parked car, I will put myself well wide and effectively block the oncoming vehicle's path, making it give way before it reaches the parked car.

If it doesn't give way, it will be at a virtual standstill before I clear enough room for it to pass. It's as simple as, their side of the road is blocked and I refuse to drive in the gutter detritus or bottom my suspension in sunken drain grates, because someone is too impatient for a second or two.

It's never gone wrong yet, but if ever does, the fact that I'm on my own side of the centrelines, along with my dashcam footage is security enough for me.
That's exactly what I was trying to do but the women in the other car was either determined or blind.  I would have either lost the mirror or have scratches/dents down the side.  I don't have a dash camera.  Maybe time for one.
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Post by Paramedic on Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:31 pm

bristol17l wrote:  I don't have a dash camera.  Maybe time for one.
Most certainly, our £80 Snooper dash cam paid for itself ten times over when successfully claiming almost £900 for offside damage to our van last year. 'A picture paints a thousand words' Other insurers paid up immediately on receipt of video evidence. Also camera for car and more recently helmet cam for electric bikes. When away in van, we tend to cycle for most of the day so it's not surprising when witness to some quite scary encounters with inconsiderate driving that can put us in danger.

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Post by RML on Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:28 pm

Own the road if your side is unobstructed. I find people have either forgotten or try to bully their way through. 
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Post by Gromit on Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:13 pm

I don't disagree, but on the other hand it's a bit awkward if you are already half way past a long line of parked cars, and someone just approaching from the other way keeps on coming "because it's their right of way!"

Where do they think you can go?? All they have to do is pause for a moment and let you clear the obstructing cars, but some of them (often big 4 x 4 pose wagons!!) try to force you to reverse back and let them through . . . by which time there are several cars stacking up behind you. Then you have a classic gridlock, with still more cars crowding in behind the idiot.

The daft sods are too thick, or self important, to realise their lack of courtesy and consideration delays themselves far more than necessary.

It happens all the time outside the school near us. Absolutely no give and take, so every morning there's a gridlock and much hooting and shouting of obscenities. A splendid example to the junior school kids and their Mums!!
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Post by -mojo- on Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:06 pm

I ~think~ the Highway code guidance on this changed, quite a few years ago now. Unfortunately I can't find my ancient printed copy of the Highway code to compare with the current version, but I'm fairly sure it used to say that vehicles on the unobstructed side of a road with a centre line have priority. It no longer says that anywhere that I could find.

But despite that I have to agree with the principle of "owning the road" where it's reasonable to do so. Confusions can often lead to accidents, so if you make your intentions clear to the person coming the other way it's got to be safer.

And I agree about legless Mums in 4x4s! I often see the amusing spectacle of lots of Mums in their Discos, Range Rovers and Porsche Cayennes, vying to get a parking space as close as possible to the school gate, and then refusing to give way to other Mums when they want to leave. It's very common to see them trying to bully drivers of smaller cars out of the way...
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Post by Askit on Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:00 pm

The "phenomenon" of not giving way seems to have crept into everyday driving. Although we have some fairly wide side streets about here, when there are cars parked either side, a lot of drivers want to drive up the white line. It appears that a lot of drivers are unable to judge the width of their vehicles, that and (what seems to be) drivers sitting in too low a position to make a proper judgement about their road position.

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Post by harrysp on Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:08 pm

I agree totally that everyday courtesy has disappeared from driving. Aggressive driving seems to be the order of the day, and if you object instead of acknowledging their mistake they just make rude gestures. I first noticed this in the south, but alas we’re just as bad up here now. For instance it was the norm to be flashed out into a queue of traffic, let the bus out from the stop etc, but now either they ignore you or are blind to your existence.

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Post by -mojo- on Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:01 pm

By coincidence I was talking to a Ghanain friend a few days ago about driving standards. He's driven in lots of countries all over the world, and he reckons that drivers in the UK are some of the most polite he has come across - so it could be worse!
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Post by HairyFool on Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:18 pm

I too wish I could find my old Highway Code. The basic rule for roundabouts used to be "give way to traffic on the roundabout approaching from the right.

The local council have a liking for painted roundabouts here and drivers approach as if they have right of way even though they are 20 metres away or more.

Sometimes I am tempted to do a U turn just to see the reaction. The trouble 40Mph+ is not that uncommon even though it is a 30 limit.
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Post by groundhog on Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:37 pm

-mojo- wrote:By coincidence I was talking to a Ghanain friend a few days ago about driving standards. He's driven in lots of countries all over the world, and he reckons that drivers in the UK are some of the most polite he has come across - so it could be worse!
Ghana.... now there is a mecca for fine driving! Agree UK drivers are not the worst in terms of aggression but they are certainly far from the best!!

Statistically I believe the UK along with Sweden has the safest roads in the World in regard to fatalities.


Last edited by groundhog on Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : info)
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Post by -mojo- on Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:24 am

Actually he's from Guyana, not Ghana!

I blame my PC's auto-correct for being on the wrong continent - though I doubt the driving standards there differ a great deal from Ghana...
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Single carriageway road Empty The benefits of an old camper

Post by christhelegend on Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:31 pm

Hi
just found the grumpy old men section, I think I qualify!

Anyway regarding idiots who try to force their way through when they don't have right of way
I find driving a big old camper van usually makes them back down!!
They are usually driving posh new cars and realise they have more to lose!!!
As for mini painted on islands!!!!!!
I have lost count of the times I have had to stand on the brakes and throw out the anchor when the car in front gives way to the car from the left?!?!?!?!

well, got that off me chest
cheers
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Post by christhelegend on Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:33 pm

Hi
just found the grumpy old men section, I think I qualify!

Anyway regarding idiots who try to force their way through when they don't have right of way
I find driving a big old camper van usually makes them back down!!
They are usually driving posh new cars and realise they have more to lose!!!
As for mini painted on islands!!!!!!
I have lost count of the times I have had to stand on the brakes and throw out the anchor when the car in front gives way to the car from the left?!?!?!?!

well, got that off me chest
cheers
Chris the Legend
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Single carriageway road Empty The benefits of an old camper

Post by christhelegend on Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:33 pm

Hi
just found the grumpy old men section, I think I qualify!

Anyway regarding idiots who try to force their way through when they don't have right of way
I find driving a big old camper van usually makes them back down!!
They are usually driving posh new cars and realise they have more to lose!!!
As for mini painted on islands!!!!!!
I have lost count of the times I have had to stand on the brakes and throw out the anchor when the car in front gives way to the car from the left?!?!?!?!

well, got that off me chest
cheers
Chris the Legend
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Post by HairyFool on Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:28 am

You have to be a little careful about roundabouts and the right of way rules, especially the mini paintspot type.

The basic rule is 

Give way to traffic on the roundabout approaching from the right.

If you take that literally the right of way does not apply until you are actually over the bars and on the roundabout.

I have one near my house forming a T where I come up the leg and the main road across the top. Being a forgetful old git I would want to do a U turn on the roundabout so would technically have right of way over both sides if I am on the roundabout 1st.

The trouble is people approach these at such a speed that self preservation means I give way when I shouldn't need to. ALL vehicles need to approach these at a pace that they can stop within the distance between their entry point and the next entry on the anticlockwise side. For a paintspot one that could be with 5 metres.
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Post by christhelegend on Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:20 am

So how the flip, did I manage to post the same reply 3 times???
Age thing? I keep repeating myself!!!
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Post by Roopert on Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:22 pm

HairyFool wrote:
The basic rule is 

Give way to traffic on the roundabout approaching from the right.

Sorry, but that is not a correct interpretation of the Highway Code. I've had a disagreement with a police traffic officer about this, because I thought the same - but he told me that not only must you give way to traffic approaching from the right, you must also take account of the speed that they are approaching - i.e. if they are some way away but travelling fast then you must still give way. The important thing being that you must act in a way that ensures that you do not risk a collision with the vehicle approaching from your right by pulling out in front of it.

Actual wording of Rule 185:

"Give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights"

As you can see, there is no reference at all to them having to be on the roundabout, at the lines, or across the lines. The lines/bars are not mentioned at all.
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Post by Paulmold on Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:27 pm

We have one of those T junction paint-spot roundabouts around the corner from our house. I've lost count the number of times I've sat there waiting for the car on my right to go but he's waiting for the one on his right - nobody seems to know who has right of way.

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Post by Roopert on Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:46 pm

They are terrible for that sort of deadlock. The worst type (for me) is where they have added a painted-in mini-roundabout into a dead straight road for access to a minor estate access road on one side. So when two cars approach from either side of the dead straight road, each is opposite the other, so neither is on the right of the other (or alternatively, both are to the right of the other)!

In that case it always seems to work best if both drivers ignore the roundabout altogether, wrong though that may be...
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Post by HairyFool on Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:20 pm

My police officer explained it differently.

A roundabout is basically a one way road. If it was straight with two roads joining it side by side you should only have to give way to a vehicle on the right once it was on that one way road, whilst it is still in his approach road as you are in yours then he has no specifically applied right of way.

My point is the other driver should not approach the junction in such a manner that he cannot stop. At my one they often exceed the 30mph limit anyway and if I then go onto the roundabout and being forgetful as I am start to do a U turn to go back home I am then approaching HIS junction from HIS right. He would be far enough away for me to complete most of the turn but due to speed would not be able to stop.

My police officer basically defined it as if he hit me on the right had side of my vehicle I would be at fault but if he hit me on the left then he would be.

Yes I have a responsibility under "due care" not to come on to the roundabout  in such a manner as to cause a collision but neither should the other driver and that includes not being able to stop for traffic on the roundabout due to excessive speed.

As for all stopping because nobody takes right of way then that is where "on the roundabout" really works. 1st to arrive takes priority and it then becomes take it in turns.
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Post by Roopert on Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:26 pm

Last week I was taking the second exit at a local roundabout when a cyclist, approaching the entrance to my left, failed to stop in time and smacked into the left hand side of my car. He started shouting abuse at me and then rode off quickly - too fast for me to catch up as he was undertaking all the (slow) traffic. Sometimes an analysis of who is right or wrong doesn't make any difference!

But anyway, the fact remains that the Highway Code does not say anything about the traffic approaching on your right having to be on the roundabout in order for you to be compelled to give way to it..
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Post by HairyFool on Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:43 pm

That is because the opinion of some cyclists appears to be that any collision between a cyclist and a car it must be the car at fault.
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