Making Life Difficult

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Post by gemdeco on Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:15 pm

Hi Everyone
    You all may has guessed we recently have changed from an AS Surrey to a AS Gloucester just wanted a bigger van.Simple you think should be but why do AS change things that work.The gas cupboard changes from 3 x 6kg cylinders to 2 x 13kg cylinders well I gave up weight years ago The water filling system on the Surrey was a good old fashioned hose pipe no that is too simple now you need a special connection and if you are not near a hose you need a pump,great idea how long is it about 250mm How high is the connection off the ground about 300mm who designs these things.The waste outlet dead easy just open an industrial type tap,not any more crawl underneath find a dirty 3" plastic cap tun it if you can then lever it off,ignoring all the road grime pull a lever and it gushes out all over your feet they call this progress,and the new electronic fridge I still cannot get that to work on gas does that mean yet another new igniter they seem to fail with increasing regularity,the last one has failed after 18th months good luck with your new MH's everyone
Kind Regards
Alan
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Post by R1GURU on Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:52 pm

the water fill on mine AS Beckford , drives me mad every time I use it .
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Post by Peter Brown on Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:46 am

I hope you don't mind me giving an alternative point of view Alan.

2 of the main reasons I still have my van after nearly seven years are the two large gas bottles instead of one small tank (in winter with no hook up, the bottles will last about 10 days, a tank a maximum of 3) and the 3 inch waste drain that saves so much time.

I didn't want the truma fill that can be either with a pump or hose but have found it faultless. I use the hose at home or on aires and the pump when settled on a pitch for a few days. I have an on/off switch fitted in the pump connector so I can control from outside.

I also have a cap for the waste outlet fitted with a hose connector so if I can't park over the disposal point, I can connect a hose to drain through.

The other significant advantage of the older van is the Truma gas fire that can be operated without 12v drain.

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Post by Gromit on Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:48 am

Hi Gemdeco

I couldn't agree more, having suffered from nearly all of those novel innovations, but we can't really blame Autosleepers.

Well - not entirely, though I wish they had the confidence to stick to what they (and we) know works reliably and very well.

Most of the items you mention are from third party suppliers, and I believe all of them resulted from consumer demand - made either to A/S or any of the other major manufacturers.

People with titchy gas cupboards wanted to be able to use bigger bottles.

The water filling system was adopted by several marques, and (as many members will know) in my opinion it's an excellent device - for a caravan!! I admit it's a pity A/S didn't check the length of the filler pump against the prototype van however!!  Whistle1

That waste outlet was snitched from continental vans, but nobody thought of going to a CC site to check on the layout of the drains.

The fridge isn't the fault of A/S either, but why do we need everything to be automatic these days? How difficult is it to press a switch or turn a knob!!

The "lowdown" on all this, which I got from a senior A/S person, is simple. If other marques come out with something new, and A/S don't follow suit, they lose sales . . . even if the innovation is far better in theory than in practice.

Many people lust after the latest model, and the constant small changes and "innovations" are what defines them. Simple as that, or so I was told, and I've no reason to doubt their word.
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Post by Aethelric on Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:03 pm

I'm not familiar with the pump system for filling the tank. Our 2007 Nuevo just needs hose or something to pour the water in with (I use a collapsible watering can).  I find it difficult to see how that could be improved upon. Like Peter we have the truma heater which needs no electric to function.  The fridge is simple too but I must admit that an autochange between 12V and gas when the vehicle is stationary would be handy.  But more to go wrong.
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Post by Gromit on Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:08 pm

Aethelric wrote:. . . I must admit that an autochange between 12V and gas when the vehicle is stationary would be handy.  But more to go wrong.
Until you get home and forget to turn the fridge and/or gas off.

Then the damn fridge switches itself onto gas, and a week later your gas tank is empty!!!!  censored!
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Post by Aethelric on Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:17 pm

Gromit wrote:
Aethelric wrote:. . . I must admit that an autochange between 12V and gas when the vehicle is stationary would be handy.  But more to go wrong.
Until you get home and forget to turn the fridge and/or gas off.

Then the damn fridge switches itself onto gas, and a week later your gas tank is empty!!!!  censored!
Yep. I'd do that. Think I'll stick with the manual knob. :)
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Post by bolero boy on Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:27 pm

Don't see the awkward waste arrangement as 'snitched from Continental vans'....the only ones I've seen are on UK ones...
our continental van has a dump pull inside the van, with the actual valve (fully insulated) inside the tank. with it closed, there is no pipeful of water to freeze up as in the system many have adopted with the tap on the end....
The end of the pipe also has a screw thread to allow a short flexible large bore pipe to be securely attached, like Peter giving a decent 'aim' should the dump drain be tricky to access...
BTW, Bailey only fit manual fridges as they think they are simpler and less to go wrong.

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Post by Gromit on Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:29 pm

bolero boy wrote:Don't see the awkward waste arrangement as 'snitched from Continental vans'....the only ones I've seen are on UK ones...
Continental vans most certainly had them - don't know if they still do. I wouldn't have commented otherwise.

Four or five years ago I had never seen the like, but along the Mosel lots of German vans had them, with the outlet under the centre rear, about a metre inboard. There was a big handle tucked under the rear skirt which was pulled to open the valve.

Many of the grey waste dumps had a sort of shallow bucket on a pole that they slid under the waste outlet. It had a flexible pipe attached which led to the drain. A somewhat weird system, which is why it sticks in mind.
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Post by matts vw on Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:48 pm

Hi, I had a German van with a big outlet, tap was next to tank underneath with a bar going to the side to open / close, it was a side outlet and I made a adapter to fit a one inch pipe on the end for drains further away and had a short piece so I could empty it into a waste container easily if not moving for a few days, it had a better size waste tank than I have now as well, I have fitted a 12v valve to mine I have now so I can pull up over the drains they have abroad to empty and don't have to get out

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Post by Quilter on Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:01 pm

Gromit wrote:


Then the damn fridge switches itself onto gas, and a week later your gas tank is empty!!!!  censored!


Worse than that Dave...I always leave the fridge and freezer compartment door open when we park the van between trips. If you forget to turn off the gas and /or the fridge then you come back a week later to find a very depleted gas tank.  Much, much worse however, a freezer compartment looking like an ice grotto with floes the size of footballs.  We have only done it once but it still gives me nightmares to think about.
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:53 pm

3" waste drain and 2x13kg gas (or 2x6kg gas if you prefer) are great features as is the Truma fill system. Truma make two fill pump pipes, a long and a short. The long one works a treat on the Gloucester. Which did you buy?

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Post by gemdeco on Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:44 pm

Hi Peter
    I only have seen the short one about 250mm with the electric pump,I have the very long one without the pump but hose connections,is there a 3rd option
regards
Alan
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:31 pm

There ar etwo pump option lengths, 800mm and 1000mm.

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Post by ajrm on Thu May 03, 2018 2:31 pm

I liked the Whale filler system on our Broadway. The van came with pump filling system ( that I never used) and a 10m flat hose with whale connector one end and normal hozelock type tap connnector the other end. I also had a 20 meter flat hose on a cassette that I could connect to the 10 m hose.
Our 120 litre tank would keep us going for about 4 days, we never spent more than a couple of days at one place or made sure we had a tap we could get within 30 metres of.
Our latest van has a normal filler inlet, easy to fill with a hose or watering can, but I miss the auto shutoff that the Whale system had.

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Post by BornAgain on Thu May 03, 2018 9:16 pm

Another vote for the water filling system. Connect whale system to the tap and walk away; it switches off automatically when full. Alternatively, use the flat hose to fill direct into the tank on the opposite side.
Love the automatic fridge - drive off and it switches to 12v, stop and it switches to gas. Connect EHU and electricity takes priority. How much simpler can it get? When I arrive on site I drive straight onto the pitch and don’t do anything until eventually getting out and plugging in the mains lead.
Yes, the waste tap can get gritty but how often do you actually use it? Seems way over the top to have a dump valve and TV monitor. Expensive as well.
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Post by inspiredron on Thu May 03, 2018 10:02 pm

I, too, support Whale and automatic fridge - BUT you do have to remember to switch it off - and that applies on the ferry as well.  I think that I have to hold the jerrycan up so that the pump will reach the bottom - but a 10 litre can takes only about 1 minute to empty with the SUBMERSIBLE (Dave!) pump so it is no hardship.  Just remember to keep the inlet filter on the solenoid valve clean.  If that bungs up filling will take for ever - and I suspect that is why some folk hate the Whale filler.


Last edited by inspiredron on Thu May 03, 2018 11:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added more comments)

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Post by Paulmold on Thu May 03, 2018 10:10 pm

With Whale filler you can connect to tap on fully serviced pitches and never have to go to a tap again whilst on that site.

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Post by Gromit on Fri May 04, 2018 8:11 am

You'll never convince me Ron.  hugegrins

I can't be bothered to get stuff out, empty the water out of the hoses and stow it all away again. I can cope with the watering can!  up!

Couple that with the fact that we had one of the bad submersibles in the tank - and I'm right put off.

As always - some of us likes them and some of us don't!  content
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Post by daisy mae on Fri May 04, 2018 9:00 am

The reason changed from many years of caravans and all the faffing about that entails, love the simpler system of my older motorhome, wouldn`t want to go back to faffing about at any price,that`s the point of motor homes .

I would have thought, minutes to pitch and minutes to get away,  less to carry, less to go wrong, new and "improved" is rarely the case.

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Post by Quilter on Fri May 04, 2018 9:23 am

daisy mae wrote:The reason changed from many years of caravans and all the faffing about that entails, love the simpler system of my older motorhome, wouldn`t want to go back to faffing about at any price,that`s the point of motor homes .

I would have thought, minutes to pitch and minutes to get away,  less to carry, less to go wrong, new and "improved" is rarely the case.


No faffing. Arrive at tap, attach filler hose to hole, turn on tap, get on with emptying loo or draining and, when you hear the characteristic click as the water turns off, come back and turn off the tap and detach the short hose. We carry a bucket rather than a watering can and the submersible pump goes in this if we don’t want to move the van. Far more uses for a bucket than there are for a watering can so it earns its keep so not sure what you mean by “ less to carry”. All very slick and efficient. I have to say that several of the people who struggle with the Whale filler are converted once shown how to connect it properly!
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Post by ajrm on Fri May 04, 2018 9:45 am

Flat hoses are the way to go, roll it back into the cassette and the water drains as you go.

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Post by daisy mae on Fri May 04, 2018 12:37 pm

Quilter wrote:
daisy mae wrote:The reason changed from many years of caravans and all the faffing about that entails, love the simpler system of my older motorhome, wouldn`t want to go back to faffing about at any price,that`s the point of motor homes .

I would have thought, minutes to pitch and minutes to get away,  less to carry, less to go wrong, new and "improved" is rarely the case.


No faffing. Arrive at tap, attach filler hose to hole, turn on tap, get on with emptying loo or draining and, when you hear the characteristic click as the water turns off, come back and turn off the tap and detach the short hose. We carry a bucket rather than a watering can and the submersible pump goes in this if we don’t want to move the van. Far more uses for a bucket than there are for a watering can so it earns its keep so not sure what you mean by “ less to carry”. All very slick and efficient. I have to say that several of the people who struggle with the Whale filler are converted once shown how to connect it properly!
Had the whale system for years on caravans, I know how to connect properly, doing it before it was on MH`s
The reason I said no faffing about, I fill up with water at home, get to site, switch off, connect EHU if using, sit down with a drink, job done, watering can every other day, to top up, I have the flat blue water hose on a reel, also the fitting to go in water filler plug in hose, like a garden hose connector, so don`t have to stand there, meanwhile load some things in van, fridge stuff. this on drive, only thing I carry is a 23ltre wheeled waste water container, easier to empty.

Each to their own as always, why connect anything when arriving at site apart from EHU . if using. I like to be self contained, the beauty of MH`s. have seen the queues when MH`s have been waiting to fill up or empty, not for me.  then some even go shopping for supplies, why? as soon as they are on site. shrugg
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Post by Quilter on Fri May 04, 2018 12:48 pm

daisy mae wrote:



Each to their own as always, why connect anything when arriving at site apart from EHU . if using. I like to be self contained, the beauty of MH`s. have seen the queues when MH`s have been waiting to fill up or empty, not for me.  then some even go shopping for supplies, why? as soon as they are on site. shrugg


I think we're talking at cross purposes Margaret.

I'm talking about the water tap on the borne or at the service point; Before we leave a site or aire we drive over to the service point, connect the hose and fill up with fresh water, dump grey water and service the loo.

I don't think we've ever connected to a pitch water connection even in our caravanning days. 

We have a short flat hose which connects to the tap on the borne. If we are on a site and want to fill up with water without moving the van then we have a green bucket and pump with a metre of hose. We also have a red bucket for emptying the waste tank if we can't drive over the dump. That's all.  It all fits in one bucket with space for umpteen other bits as well.

I'm not suggesting you don't know how to deal with the Whale system but we have noticed that many do not and complain that it is either slow or doesn't work when they have not turned on the control box or plugged it in properly.
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Post by raymondo on Fri May 04, 2018 12:56 pm

Gemdeco,  I agree with you 100%
I walked away from a nearly new Nuevo largely for the reasons you outline - another complaint of mine is the overcab sun roof which means that you no longer have a locker for bedding .

I have a 2008 Nuevo which is pretty much perfect for what I do, I would love to change to a newer model but all of the later "improvements" have made to Nuevo less suitable for my needs
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