Sticking metal to glass

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Sticking metal to glass Empty Sticking metal to glass

Post by GrahamF on Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:57 pm

We are up near to Berwick on the first trip of the season. True to form, once we hit a few of the rougher Northumberland roads the catch that holds the glass door beneath the oven gave way again for what is now the third time.

As ovens go, the Thetford Caprice seems to meet with approval from my other half. But why would anyone in their right minds choose the types of catches used on such an oven. Like a lot of members I have overcome the problem of the main oven door opening during transit by adding a kind of turn button. But it is the catch on the lower cupboard door that has me beaten. This relies on a metal clip being glued to the glass, and despite two previous efforts to fairly thoroughly repair it with Araldite, it has somewhat inevitably failed yet again.

As I can’t be alone with this problem, my question is what do other members use to affix glass and metal in such an application? Does it need something with a little more flexibility? (There is no real heat involved).

As ever, your views would be much appreciated.

Regards - Graham
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Sticking metal to glass Empty Re: Sticking metal to glass

Post by Kemerton-bath on Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:09 am

Graham - you're definitely not alone, we had the same problem on the Caprice in our Symbol, which we've just traded in.  It probably occurred 6 or 7 times in the 8 years we owned it.  I eventually gave up on araldite and used superglue instead, with mixed success, and finally I used 2-part mitre adhesive.  The latter is available from places such as Screwfix (https://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-mitre-adhesive-200ml/41795) and has the advantage that it goes off even quicker than normal superglue.  I would apply the glue itself (from the tube) to the catch and spray the glass with the accelerant (from the can), though see my final note below.  You ought to be able to get some easily in Berwick.

I have since come across a glue that I use in building applications and which is now my go-to adhesive when I need a high-confidence construction fixing. It's called CT-1.  I buy it from Travis Perkins but you can get it from Amazon for about the same price.  It's not so practical for you right now as you'll need a skeleton gun and it will several hours to cure before you can close the door.  All the time the door is open it's vulnerable to damage.  CT1 is also potentially more messy and expensive - you'll only use a small amount and by the time you come to use it again the tube will be solid.  If I still had a Caprice I think I'd use it because I always have a tube on the go in my work toolkit, but not while living in the van.

I have a further suggestion.  You'll have already found that getting the catch in exactly the right position onto the glass plate is really difficult in order to get it to latch correctly upon closure.  After my 3rd or 4th re-gluing (it was about once per year!) I knew exactly where it needed to be placed and drew around it onto the glass with a fine permanent marker pen.  Thereafter it was always a 2min job to align the catch within the marked outline and glue it on. If you're already confident you know the position of the catch then go ahead and use the mitre adhesive I mentioned earlier.  If not, then you won't have time with a 2-part adhesive to make any adjustments once you've applied both surfaces with it.  So you may need to re-glue using your existing method and only mark the glass once you're happy.  Thereafter the 2-part will be fine.

Other than that, the Caprice is a good stove and better than what we now have in the Kemerton, though I haven't yet missed the annual ritual of re-gluing the touch-catch.  No doubt there be an equivalent routine in this van, which I've yet to discover!

Tim

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Sticking metal to glass Empty Re: Sticking metal to glass

Post by -mojo- on Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:10 am

Agreed - Araldite doesn't stick well to glass! There are several specialist adhesives that are designed for glass, some of which are actually designed to fix oven doors - but they tend to be silicone-based which might not work well for you.

If the catch mates very closely with the glass and the gap is narrow and consistent, I would be tempted to try one of the specialist glues that are designed for sticking interior mirrors onto car windscreens.
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Sticking metal to glass Empty Re: Sticking metal to glass

Post by Gromit on Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:34 am

Just a theory, but it seems logical to think the glue would have a much better chance of sticking if the glass was etched. 

It can be done with a liquid etching chemical, but I imagine it would be nasty stuff and care would be needed to keep it away from skin - and specially the eyes!

Alternatively, and for not very much cash, a mechanical glass etching kit will "sandpaper" a small area of the surface.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] or one like it might be worth a try for not much more than a tenner. Mrs Gromit has one like it, and has used it on fairly fragile glass without any catastrophe. She suggests that a rotary engraving disk is far safer for use on glass.

(Beware, as there are reciprocating "impact" engravers on the market, but the name says it all - it could be a bit risky!!)
I think I would practice on a beer bottle first - assuming you have an empty one to hand!  snigger


Last edited by Gromit on Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:47 am; edited 2 times in total
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Sticking metal to glass Empty Re: Sticking metal to glass

Post by crosgor on Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:40 am

Re etching, is the door not hardened glass, mechanical etching would give a start to stress fractures similar to what happens to a windscreen if given a sudden shock following even slight damage?
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Sticking metal to glass Empty Re: Sticking metal to glass

Post by Gromit on Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:49 am

Even liquid etching?
Just a theory as I said, but worth mentioning if only for additional information as you just offered.  up!

P.S. I would expect it to be toughened glass, or similar, as there's an obvious danger of stepping in it when it is in the open position, possibly with bare feet. Surely it would be "safety" glass of some description - but whether that's likely to be better for etching I wouldn't know.
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Sticking metal to glass Empty Re: Sticking metal to glass

Post by GrahamF on Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:01 pm

Many thanks for your responses. The forum never ceases to amaze me. Where else could you post a question at 11 o’clock at night and receive relevant and useful replies just over an hour afterwards! 

I think that I will try and go with Tim’s suggestion and try CT-1 and as such have ordered the same via t’internet with the thought that it should be waiting for me upon my return home. Having had plenty of practise re-fixing this catch, I appreciate your comments on alignment - I already have the position marked as you suggested. (It does beg the question why some form of adjustment is not incorporated into the design -hey ho).

If this fails I will definitely follow up Mojo’s suggestion of the adhesive used to fix mirrors to windscreens as I have rarely heard of one of them coming off.

Thanks also to Gromit for the etching thought. I will keep this in reserve as it sounds a bit on the marginal front. 

P.S. Could I ask you Gromit or any of the other kind moderators to change the title to “Sticking metal to glass” please. Where the “greatly” came from I really don’t know but it would make it easier for members in the future looking up this problem.

Thanks to all - Graham
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Sticking metal to glass Empty Re: Sticking metal to glass

Post by -mojo- on Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:06 am

I just thought you meant the opposite of "sticking poorly to glass"!

I agree with Tim that CT1 is a very good adhesive - we used it on the solar panel on the Trooper, and when cured it seems to have the consistency of very strong silicone sealant, but not quite the "sticks like sh*t" qualities of the Sikaflex-type PU sealants. Hopefully it will do the trick.

If you have to use a specialist glass adhesive, don't forget that many need UV light as part of the curing process, and if so you'll probably need to get it into the sun - unless you happen to have the right type of UV lamp available.
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Sticking metal to glass Empty Re: Sticking metal to glass

Post by ajrm on Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:52 am

I know you have bought CT1, which will hopefully work, but if not, I can recommend Gorilla Glue. We don’t have a problem with our oven, but we have a bathroom cabinet the has a similar catch glued to the back of the mirror door. Someone has attempted to fix this catch before and when we bought the van, the catch came off after a particularly bone jarring trip on a UK road. I cleaned everything up and stuck the catch back on with Gorilla Glue and a year on, and many bumpy / rattley roads later, it’s still solidly stuck.
I held the catch in place with tape while it cured, which allowed slight movement while I checked alignment, now it’s stuck solid and looks very neat.
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Sticking metal to glass Empty Re: Sticking metal to glass

Post by groundhog on Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:44 am

Never had that problem with our door Graham but looks as though there are plenty of ideas here from the learned of this forum up!

I am not a fan of the crapice oven at all, our previous van had a stoves which was far better from a rattle point of view and just felt more solid (function is not my speciality!)

Have you managed to get rid of all the rattles to your satisfaction, I have carried out a couple of mods which have helped in that department so ours is at least quiet now. See oven door thread for latest idea!
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Sticking metal to glass Empty Re: Sticking metal to glass

Post by chrisk on Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:12 pm

Not familar with the door but would double sided tape be any good.
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Sticking metal to glass Empty Re: Sticking metal to glass

Post by breakaleg on Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:48 am

we had a problem trying everything I could think of trying to stick some hooks in the shower room the plastic walls had a pattern on them and everytime I stuck the self adhesive hooks on they fell off, sometimes immediately sometimes a few days latter.
The only thing that worked was Waterproof double sided gorilla tape, quite expensive but I doub't that they will ever come off ever again.lol
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Sticking metal to glass Empty Re: Sticking metal to glass

Post by Molly3 on Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:36 pm

Thanks for heads up  I will mark mine before it drop off .
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Sticking metal to glass Empty Re: Sticking metal to glass

Post by rogersrimini on Tue May 08, 2018 9:40 am

GrahamF wrote:We are up near to Berwick on the first trip of the season. True to form, once we hit a few of the rougher Northumberland roads the catch that holds the glass door beneath the oven gave way again for what is now the third time.

As ovens go, the Thetford Caprice seems to meet with approval from my other half. But why would anyone in their right minds choose the types of catches used on such an oven. Like a lot of members I have overcome the problem of the main oven door opening during transit by adding a kind of turn button. But it is the catch on the lower cupboard door that has me beaten. This relies on a metal clip being glued to the glass, and despite two previous efforts to fairly thoroughly repair it with Araldite, it has somewhat inevitably failed yet again.

As I can’t be alone with this problem, my question is what do other members use to affix glass and metal in such an application? Does it need something with a little more flexibility? (There is no real heat involved).

As ever, your views would be much appreciated.

Regards - Graham

Hi Graham, nott an uncommon problem where catches and hinges are 'bonded to glass:
 I worked for 40 years in Labs and this was a common problem on incubator doors and the like. I used a UV activated 'glass bond'. clean up the mating surfaces finishing off with an alcohol wipe or meth. spirit, apply the glue, clamp the catch to the glass and leave it sitting in the sun for 10-15 miutes. Despite being units that were continuously heating/cooling this usually lasted a couple of years before the bond failed. I also used it to mend a cracked headlight lens to get through an MOT, which is how I found the stuff in the fist place.
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Sticking metal to glass Empty Re: Sticking metal to glass

Post by GrahamF on Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:57 am

Just a bit of positive feedback for the benefit of other members.

I used the CT-1 glue to fix the oven catch back on at the start of the year and many miles later it still seems as strong as ever now. It may be a tad expensive and you can only use a fraction of it before it goes off - but it works!

Thanks to all for the suggestions, especially Tim.

Graham
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