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Post by harrysp on Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:26 am

Happy New Year to all.

We use a stand alone Sat Nav in our 15 Broadway and are going to change it for a bigger screen unit. Has anyone had a built in unit retro fitted? We had one in a previous van and it worked well. There are a number of arguments for and against I know, but before deciding what to buy wonder how much this might cost and if it is a straight forward job.

Thanks.Harry.
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Post by bolero boy on Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:36 am

just be aware that any dash fitted sqtnav/dab/Bluetooth type head unit will be a heavy drawer of vehicle battery power, many are the cause of flat vehicle batteries when vehicle not in use.
they need to be properly isolated when parked up.

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Post by MikeJJ on Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:23 am

If you want to consider a big screen unit then take a look at this Alpine unit:

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I think the unit alone is over £1k.
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Post by Gromit on Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:48 am

No practical help Harry - just one more argument.  content

We use the Tom Tom App on the smart phone, and find it excellent in strange (specially foreign) towns for finding the way back to the car or bikes. Also it's not something else to carry since almost everyone "wears" a phone these days, so it's always with you.

Just a thought.
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Post by palette on Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:34 am

I think the Alpine unit is more like £1300. It will double as a TV and USB player though.

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Post by meanchris on Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:25 pm

If you're thinking of a double DIN replacement head unit, (not clear from your original post), then you don't have to spend >£500 for a Pioneer or other branded unit.

You can buy a powerful Android head unit for less than £300, which will run smartphone style navigation apps.

We have a Pumpkin single DIN quad core unit with fold out screen that works pretty well, even at 16GB ROM 1GB RAM.

One of these much more powerful octa core 32GB/2GB units may suit you?

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Post by -mojo- on Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:34 pm

I went down that route with a Kenwood double-DIN size unit, and it's very good - with Garmin providing the satnav part - it's very well integrated with the other functions (media/CD player, FM/LW/DAB), but it does have some downsides - for example:

It's quite common for the angle of a van's dash to make the screen hard to read in bright sunlight. Some headunits have a screen that tilts but these are rare - I've had to make a cowl for mine to ensure it's readable in all conditions.

They can be a little slow to start up - typically the more recent the design, the faster it will be.

As Bolero Boy says, they can be very power-hungry when powered on. However, if wired up correctly (so that they can be powered off rather than remaining in Standby) they should not be any more taxing for your battery when turned off than a less functional headunit.

They are mostly expensive - mine was around £600 from Germany. UK prices for the same unit were £800-£1000.

You can DIY (I did) but they are a bit of a pain to fit, because they have lots and lots of wires on the back!

There are also a lot of Chinese-made copies, and by comparison they are very cheap, but I wouldn't recommend that route unless you're desperate for a cheap solution...
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Post by -mojo- on Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:37 pm

Forgot one other downside: typically your Garmin or TomTom will come with lifetime map updates, but the headunit equivalent almost certainly won't, and they typically charge £60-£80 every time you want a map update! So mine is still on its 4-year-old maps (which are mainly fine).
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Post by harrysp on Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:09 pm

Thanks everyone, food for thought. The power hungry element, plus our lack of knowledge of these things points me in the direction of stand alone unit. Essentially we want a bigger screen than the 5ins we currently have and thought the integrated units look better and avoid glare from the sun-although not necessarily as mojo says.

I think we'll keep our money and shop around for a stand alone. We've got Tomtom which works well -mostly- but the 7ins screen is Garmin. More homework needed but thanks for the info.

H

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Post by Gromit on Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:56 pm

harrysp wrote:Essentially we want a bigger screen than the 5ins we currently have 
If it helps Harry, we have the Tom Tom App installed on a 10 inch tablet as well as the smart phone. You can install it on up to three different gadgets at no extra cost, and the big screen certainly makes a dramatic difference - specially when you need to zoom out for a "bigger" picture.
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Post by bolero boy on Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:13 pm

just had a look at the Tomtom apps (as an alternative to the popular copilot) and the original app is now unsupported, a new app Tomtom Go is now available but only for iPhone, not ipad.
is this what ypu have on your tablet, is this android?

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Post by Gromit on Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:06 pm

I think you must be mistaken Bolero boy.

We use Android and the App is very much alive.
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It's called "TomTom GPS Navigation Traffic" and costs (from memory) about £32 for three years of fully supported everything.

Now considerably better than Co-Pilot since they updated it, and mended a very good App which wasn't broken.
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Post by inspiredron on Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:32 am

If you had gone down the replacement radio route I suspect you would have needed to pay your Peugeot dealer to link it to the CANBUS. I have chickened out of putting a better radio in my 2012 Lancashire.

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Post by -mojo- on Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:53 am

inspiredron wrote:If you had gone down the replacement radio route I suspect you would have needed to pay your Peugeot dealer to link it to the CANBUS. I have chickened out of putting a better radio in my 2012 Lancashire.

That's typically true if you go for an upgraded OEM radio, but if you choose an aftermarket headunit you shouldn't need to do that. For example my Kenwood has the optional CANbus adaptor, but it's a purely passive device, so it should not need to be registered on the network. On mine the adaptor handles power on/off, backlight dimming when the headlights are on and display of reversing sensor info (a graphic display of what the sensors "see" behind the van).

When I replaced the OEM radio on the T5, I removed it from the list of CAN devices in the CAN Gateway, but that's not a critical step. There was no need to register the new radio's CAN adapter because it never actually sends anything out onto the network - it just reads and acts on data broadcast by other controllers elsewhere in the vehicle. The OEM radio could be addressed on the network - and indeed you could change its internal configuration via CAN - but I don't think any aftermarket manufacturers do this (because they want their units to be able to function in vehicles both with and without CANbus).
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Post by bolero boy on Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:18 am

Gromit wrote:I think you must be mistaken Bolero boy.

We use Android and the App is very much alive.
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It's called "TomTom GPS Navigation Traffic" and costs (from memory) about £32 for three years of fully supported everything.

Now considerably better than Co-Pilot since they updated it, and mended a very good App which wasn't broken.
grommit, sorry, that was my point.....its NOT available for ipad (which i searched for) hence me checking that it was the andriod one that you had.....
they have withdrawn the ipad version and the replacement Tomtom Go is chargeable by the year and a shorter period (month perhaps?).
perhaps they will change the android equivalent at some point? otherwise, why have a difderent set up?
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Post by Paulmold on Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:01 am

Not being an Apple person, are you saying that apps are available for iPhone but not iPad, as you stated? Surely an app for Apple is an app for Apple. If so, another good reason why I stick to Android.

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Post by Gromit on Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:07 am

Confused I am?  scratch head

I can't check of course, but it seems to be available for both Android and iGadget - although the name changes are confusing?

On the website (Link below) it refers to "Tom Tom Go Mobile" (which is an earlier name I think) but when you click on a link it offers to download "TomTom GPS Navigation Traffic". It is the same App that we have on our Android gadgets!

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These conditions are different as BB said. "Every month the app gives you up to 50 miles of navigation for free, after which you can purchase a 1-month or 1-year subscription with unlimited miles." We currently have a three year subscription. Can't see any reason for reducing it to one year, unless they are charging a bit more that way. It's not exactly expensive at a tenner per year at present. (I can't immediately find the cost for a one year subscription.)
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Post by SteveUK on Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:01 pm

I paid for the iPhone TomTom app for UK and Ireland a couple of years ago with lifetime map updates etc.

Guess what?  "Lifetime" means until TomTom decide that they can screw more cash out of their customers by declaring the app as end-of-life.

Bu**ered if I will pay again for what I have already (in my view) paid for!  I do have a standalone TomTom with lifetime maps and traffic for all Europe, but wonder how long before they pull the plug on that one too!
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Post by harrysp on Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:05 pm

The app/tablet combination is interesting. Please excuse the ignorance, can it be used offline? So if I download the app on my tablet can I then use it without access to the Internet?

  I'm assuming it needs data access to give traffic updates. Is this correct? Gromit, you say you have it on tablet and smartphone, do you use the tablet to navigate without using your phone or are using the two together?  Does it work in France, Spain etc?

Thanks.

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Post by Peter Brown on Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:37 pm

I wouldn't be without my Tomtom Live in the van but I have a free Android app on my phone called OsmAnd. You can download up to seven regional maps free to use off line and it will navigate for car, cycle or walking - its very good.

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Post by Gromit on Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:08 pm

harrysp wrote:I'm assuming it needs data access to give traffic updates. Is this correct? Gromit, you say you have it on tablet and smartphone, do you use the tablet to navigate without using your phone or are using the two together?  Does it work in France, Spain etc?
Hi Harry

It does need data access for Live Traffic updates, but it uses very little. I don't know how much, but it was insignificant during a three week touring holiday in France last year (2017).

We use the phone and tablet together, and yes it works anywhere. You download the map(s) from your home WiFi (because they are quite big files) and from then on it's completely off line apart from the Live Traffic - which you can switch off if you don't want to use it.

I have an old smart phone which has become the dedicated sat nav - it makes it easier if my "proper" phone rings or I get a text message as I can hand it to Sian and she answers or deals with the message while I drive.

While I'm using the old phone just like any sat nav, Sian likes to have the tablet on her knee so she has all the advantages of the 10" screen. She likes to keep an eye on where we are on the map, and can also zoom out for a look at the route if it appears we are being sent down a goat track, or one of those irritating short cuts which might save three seconds on the journey time! Equally, if we come across a road closure she can easily zoom out and guide us around it - once again a huge advantage of the bigger screen upon which she can concentrate while not driving!

Routes can be planned in detail if you want to, forcing it off toll roads and onto exactly where you want to go. The easiest way to do this is with the free Tom Tom "My Drive" program on the PC. It's a bit clunky, but when you have forced a route onto your preferred roads and got it to your satisfaction you can save it to the "Cloud". This is all free and happens automatically.
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Then the next time you log onto the App on any of your other gadgets, they will instantly download that route and it can be selected from the menu. It is then a huge advantage to run the exact same route concurrently on both the "sat nav" phone and the tablet. You are then both singing from the same hymn sheet - as it were!  Whistle1

I can only say it does everything we want, and a lot better than any of the several other Apps and dedicated sat navs we have used.
You can download it for free and have 50 miles use from it every month as a trial to see if you like it. Nothing to lose!  up!


P.S. I agree entirely with Peter about Osmand - in principle at least. It's a personal thing I'm sure, but I find it needlessly complex and I can't get on with it. I find Maps.Me far better for what we want. It's a lot more basic, but I find it far easier and more intuitive to use.
Personal preference again, but it's good that there are several options to choose from.
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Post by harrysp on Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:02 pm

Dave, many thanks for a detailed and clear explanation.  I now understand how it works and what I need to do. Before spending much hard earned I think I'll download the app onto an old Android tablet I have and try it out for the 50 miles. As you say, nothing to lose.

Due to cost, power etc I've decided to forget about the integrated systems.  Hopefully we'll have new bigger screen sorted by the time we set off for a bit more of Europe in May. 

Thanks once again.

Harry

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