Water Pump Running Continually

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Water Pump Running Continually

Post by Jarjar on Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:01 pm

We are gradually getting to grips with the van, in the past we have used bottled water but with this all-singing all-dancing A/S we decided to put some water in the tank (and it's the only way to flush the toilet!). First time we tried it the plumbing under the sink leaked, according to the highly skilled technician who repaired it the system had not been pressurised before. Brought it home, put about ten litres of water in and pressed the tap symbol. As expected the pump started running, the water came out of the tap but there is a steady hum under the floor which l assume is the pump. Closed the tap, humming continued. Switched off and on, still humming. 
The manual was no use (see how desperate l am?) only telling me how to adjust the pressure switch, no mention of how long the pump - if indeed it is the pump- should keep running. The easy and possibly correct answer is to switch on when you want water and leave it off the rest of the time. If that is so, are we condemned to climbing all over the bed to switch the pump on to flush the toilet during the night?
Apologies if the solution is straightforward and simple but l'm almost longing for the days of the foot operated water pump...and gas lights....up!
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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by meanchris on Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:14 pm

The water pump might be running because it's trying to fill and pressurise the hot water tank.

10L won't be enough to do that, especially if some was run out of the cold tap.

You'd have to put about 25L into the tank to allow for running some through both hot and cold systems to bleed the air out and pressurise the hot tank.

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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by Wargenwolf on Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:20 pm

The pump should switch off itself without you having to do it manually at the control panel.

I would put more fresh water in the system, close all the taps and shower, then switch the tap symbol back on at the control panel. If the pressure is low enough, the pump will run until the pressure builds up in the system. 
Once the pump has stopped of its own accord, start priming the taps, one at a time and fully on the hot side first works for me. Spluttering and splashing is normal and once you have free flowing water at the first tap, close it and move on to your second.

Once all the hot side is done, repeat the exercise with the cold.

If the pump doesn't stop running when you do the first tap, check underneath to see if you have any water leaking.

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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by Hubert on Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:49 pm

Hi Jarjar
Sometimes the pump gets airlocked and may run continuously even with a full water tank. If that is the case you may need to drive the van around to shake up and release any air trapped.
This has happened to me a few times, so I always fill or part fill the water tank before setting off.
By the time we get to site all air has been released and the pump works as it should.

Hubert
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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by AutoSleepyDon on Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:44 pm

Jarjar wrote:We are gradually getting to grips with the van, in the past we have used bottled water but with this all-singing all-dancing A/S we decided to put some water in the tank (and it's the only way to flush the toilet!).
NB the toilet has a seperate (much smaller) water tank.

I agree with previous users, try again with a full water tank. Begin with all taps closed. Pump should run less than a minute. Check underneath for an open drain valve.
Don't expect the tank gauge to be accurate, they always read low.

PS I think the Symbol is a great van.
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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by Paulmold on Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:08 pm

AutoSleepyDon wrote:
Jarjar wrote:We are gradually getting to grips with the van, in the past we have used bottled water but with this all-singing all-dancing A/S we decided to put some water in the tank (and it's the only way to flush the toilet!).
NB the toilet has a seperate (much smaller) water tank.

Not all vans have separate flush tank, depends what model.

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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by AutoSleepyDon on Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:11 pm

Paulmold wrote:
AutoSleepyDon wrote:
Jarjar wrote:We are gradually getting to grips with the van, in the past we have used bottled water but with this all-singing all-dancing A/S we decided to put some water in the tank (and it's the only way to flush the toilet!).
NB the toilet has a seperate (much smaller) water tank.

Not all vans have separate flush tank, depends what model.
OK, but in this case, Jarjar has said it's a 2016 Symbol. I've seen them, they have the unit (Thetford?) like my 2017 Warwick Duo and 2002 Symbol before that.
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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by Jarjar on Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:38 pm

Thanks everyone. l'll fill the tank and give it a go. Might have a read of the manual and see if we've got a toilet cistern hugegrins
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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by Traficlady on Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:24 am

Not all Thetford toilets have their own tank.

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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by roli on Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:23 am

Most likely to be the water pressure switch needs adjusting.   Just a slight turn normally corrects

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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by TravelKat on Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:14 am

One other thing - yes, I agree with Roger that the pressure may need adjusting, but if you are running it from the leisure battery, ie not on EHU, if the voltage is low, the pump won't necessarily run hard enough to pressurise the system.

Mr Travelkat (also Roger).

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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by kaspian on Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:16 am

Hi jarjar , 10 litres will not even fill the pipework and water heater. System works by filling then pressurising to cut off point where pump then stops . Opening a tap drops pressure in the system flow switch detects flow and pump switched on to maintain pressure. On closing tap pump continues till pressure builds to cut off point again. pump stops . Pressure switch adjuster allows you to adjust cut off point taking into account voltage available from battery or electric hook up. Ensure the hot water tank drain valve is shut . Fill the tank fully then open hot tap and allow water heater to fill. When water flows uninterupted from hot tap close and open cold tap , when water flows uninterrupted close and repeat in bathroom taps. At this point pump should run on a few seconds then stop. If it does not or starts to chatter carefully adjust knob on flow switch to point the pump switches off . Retry taps by opening and closing . Should be ok now. If pump continues to run there is either a leak in pipework or the pressure switch non return valve is stuck with grit and allowing water to bleed back into the main tank. Airlocks I feel are a red herring as the pump is a submersible that hangs at the bottom of the tank totally immersed and is a high flow high capacity model if original fit.   This is of course if you have the Whale system fitted. Try the above and if still giving problems let us know and will put thinking cap on again. up!

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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by phil1855 on Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:49 am

Hi jarjar,
                  We too have a Symbol (Great Van) with the Whale water system.( Not so great)

This system has been the biggest disappointment in what is a super van which we enjoy fully. Spending 2 months in France in it this summer.

However the problem you describe has plagued us since we bought it. Originally when the problem was noted we took it back to Mark at Autosleepers, as we live not too far away.

The problem had resolved itself by the time we had arrived due to the fact that we had driven over some bumps, this had some how caused the submersible pump to behave its self.

However the problem persists and is not always resolved by a bumpy drive. When we arrived on site and switch on the water, our greatest surprise is when after a second or two the pump switches off.

This has been explained by the fact that the pump is sensitive to the available voltage , and needs adjusting to compensate for the difference in voltage.

So if you pump worked at a particular site, do not expect it to necessarily work at another site, and in particular if you are on 12 volt.

We spent a few days on the Ferry Meadows Site a week ago and the pump worked fine on hook up, back on our drive and on hook up the pump failed to switch off.

Prompted by this thread I have just spent 10 minutes in the van fiddling with the pressure switch adjustment screw and got the pump to switch off. (Hooray)

So it looks as if this is a process which needs to be undertaken each time the pump fails to switch off.

WORD OF WARNING.... there is a locking nut on the adjustment screw, this is quite fiddly and mine has now fallen down into the strategically positioned void under the adjustment screw, it, rather like the school hamster is now somewhere in the wall space.   confused3

Phil
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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by Hubert on Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:08 am

kaspian wrote: Airlocks I feel are a red herring as the pump is a submersible that hangs at the bottom of the tank totally immersed and is a high flow high capacity model if original fit.   This is of course if you have the Whale system fitted. Try the above and if still giving problems let us know and will put thinking cap on again. up!

Sorry Kaspian but I have to disagree, see the previous thread on the subject.

http://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t20611-water-pump-no-water?highlight=pump+running

As I keep my van in storage, I always fully drain down the water tank after each holiday. This is probably what causes an air lock in the pump. When filling the tank from dry, air could be trapped. If you have experienced this problem, you can tell by the sound of the pump if it isn't pumping water. Others have reported similar and A-S have advised sloshing the water around in the tank to cure, which it does.

Happened again to me only this week when visiting the NEC. Arrived on site with an empty water tank (hot water tank hadn't been drained down) filled up the water tank, tried the taps, pump ran continuously, no water or air gushing. Left site to drive to the NEC, tried the pump there and no problems water aplenty

Not ideal, but if all else fails it must be worth trying.

Hubert
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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by Gromit on Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:15 am

Hi Phil

At risk of spending your money for you uncertain , have you thought of getting a Shurflo pump fitted?

Mark is used to doing them now, which tells you a lot about those submersible pumps!! Although I resented having to spend the money I'm very glad I did. Since then I've had none of the problems which plagued us, you and many others. It just works - every time.  up!

Among the several advantages is accessibility. If it should go wrong (and they rarely do) you can get at it to undo (from memory) only two screws and two electrical connections to swap it for a new one, and they are available everywhere in Europe. Plus the integral pressure switch never seems to need any fiddling!!

Just a thought.

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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by Gromit on Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:19 am

P.S. Just saw Hubert's post, and I agree with him entirely.

He described exactly the most irritating of the several problems we had with the submersible, almost every time I filled up after draining down.

See my previous post for the only guaranteed solution I could think of.  rolleyes

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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by kaspian on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:13 am

Hi Hubert , whatever floats your boat as they say,  if it works for you great. The pump dangles in the tank on the end of a bit of semi rigid pipe using push fit connector and jubilee clip. Perhaps some have moved to a particular angle making it more susceptible to airlock if this is what you think happens. 
         Check out my previous post re whale pump batch problems where the impeller becomes an intermittent loose fit on the motor shaft . Since Whale kindly sent me a new one FOC , I can honestly say I have had not one problem in almost  2 years.I always drive with empty tank  and fill on site as By not wildcamping I dont see the need to drag around all that extra weight so pump always started from dry so to speak.
      I know others  have ditched in  favour of  Shurflow pump as was fitted to our previous 3 vans but I have no axe to grind,  if something works well why spend money 'fixing ' it? And believe me I will be the first to criticise poor workmanship or design. The problem I had was the pump whirring away but pumping nothing because the impeller was slipping on the shaft of the motor. Next time in use it worked normally - frustrating to say the least but easily fixed. The Shurflow is a nice easy system but when working well why change what A/s designed in from new and avoid a sizeable pump stuffed in a bed box in an already relatively small van conversion.? Now if you gave me the choice of filling from a watering can or the pump system provided then I would hesitate to defend the latter as K.I.S. S   comes into play! hugegrins


Last edited by kaspian on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by Gromit on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:29 am

kaspian wrote: Now if you gave me the choice of filling from a watering can or the pump system provided then I would hesitate to defend the latter as K.I.S. S   comes into play! hugegrins
Quite agree Kaspian. There's nothing to go wrong with the old watering can, and fortunately we have both systems fitted. Needless to say the pump and hose for the Whale system are still sealed in their bags and slung in the loft.
The only problem I've ever had with the watering can is impelling Mrs Gromit to fetch the occasional can full!  lol4  broomstick

Getting me coat!!  Whistle1

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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by kaspian on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:38 am

Hi Dave dont get me wrong , it works well enough but what was wrong with the old system apart from wrinklies having difficulty lifting a full can to empty into the filler, me included as the damp weather is getting to my bones- creak creak hugegrins Perhaps the manufacturers know their customers better than we care to think?

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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by Gromit on Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:09 pm

kaspian wrote:Hi Dave dont get me wrong , it works well enough but what was wrong with the old system apart from wrinklies having difficulty lifting a full can to empty into the filler, me included as the damp weather is getting to my bones- creak creak hugegrins 
Precisely!!
That says it all!  up!

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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by Jarjar on Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:32 pm

Thanks for your help everyone. Just back from a few days away, water system behaving perfectly. Next job is to drain it all down for winter! smile!
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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by Dave H on Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:51 pm

Just "surfing" the forum being nosey and came across this thread. I had a problem with the pump failing to switch off after use. Very annoying. Eventually I found a document on line which proved to be invaluable in providing simple instructions to sort out the problem. It is a one page document entitled "Whale Adjusting your pressure Switch" It mentions on the document info@whalepumps.com. If Jarjar is unable to locate it online PM me with a note of the email address I will scan it an send it as an attachment. Cheers

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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by Dave H on Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:52 pm

Just seen the last post from Jarjar. Pleased to see that all is well.

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Re: Water Pump Running Continually

Post by biffobear on Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:07 am

I have an older (‘98) A/S with a Shurflo pump which I replaced earlier this year as the head was leaking, drawing small amounts of air into the system causing sputtering at the tap at low volume. I also fitted an accumulator which is a good bit of kit which eliminates the surge you get with the Shurflo pump. I’m going to swear now so look away now. I also run a Hymer of the same age which uses a submersible Reich twin pump. This is not controlled buy a pressure switch in the system. The taps are fitted with micro switches which turn the pump on and off as required. A much better system than the One A/S has adopted but not as good as the Shurflo pump system once an accumulator is fitted. Although the taps and required wiring system would be expensive initially it would do A/S name no harm to adopt this system if they are to continue using submersible pumps.
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